That’s what Richard J. Mouw says. At this point, I’ll take it.
I’ve seen plenty of articles that point out the technical meaning of the word cult, and how Mormonism fits into that little box because it is outside of the prescribed norm, but I find the discussion frustrating because it’s not what people mean when they use the phrase. They don’t mean “Not Catholic”, they are saying:
weird
strange
different
Aren’t we all?
Here is a thought experiment for you. I want you to think of every single person you have known or associated with in your lifetime. Got it? Every one of them. Now tell me who is the most normal. Did they grow up in a house with a backyard and a dog, parents who stayed married, one sibling, state college, and now work selling insurance while running races and volunteering on the weekends? That could be one definition of normal.
Now go knock on your neighbor’s door, and ask them to describe the most normal person they have ever known. Hop three states over, try that again.
Now move to the neighboring country (let’s say, Mexico for us Americans) and give it another try. What if you did that same thing in Africa, Australia, Russia, and Egypt. Would you ever get the same answer for the perfect definition of a normal person?
No way, because normal doesn’t exist. Average sort of does, but even that is regional and entirely based on cultures, and only represents what the majority are like.
We can work on the Christian thing later, but for now, let’s admit that neither I, nor you, are normal. And our religion has nothing to do with it.















November 27th, 2011 on 8:43 pm
I completely agree!!
Reply
November 27th, 2011 on 10:24 pm
Interesting post. I certainly don’t associate Mormons with cults (and blogs like yours help so much in helping non-Mormons understand LDS theology and culture). However, I will say I’m still not sure what I think about the LDS Church being Christian.
The dictionary definition describes a Christian as “one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.” By that definition, yep, LDS=Christian. However, historically, we’re talking about two “different” versions of Jesus who taught different things in some, but not all cases. That’s where it get’s complicated and I wont pretend to know the answer.
Reply
Katy Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 5:17 am
I used to wonder my WHOLE life why people didn’t think we were Christian – with His name being in our title and all for starters. Then just recently, I came to understand that others think we don’t worship the same exact Jesus – ah, now we can a conversation. At least there is a starting point – I thought I was taking crazy pills my whole life or something!
But to me, even if there are differences in what we believe He taught or how we differ in interpretation, we still worship the same person – the person that was born of Mary, performed miracles, was crucified, and rose 3 days later.
Reply
Sarah Marie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 7:23 am
As a proud practicing Catholic, I would quibble with your last statement. Firstly, Christianity doesn’t come down to differing “interpretation”. Christ founded one Church, maintained through the ages through apostolic tradition, which certainly requires no additional “interpretation”. Secondly, I wonder at your phrase “we still worship the same person”. Jesus is not mere person- he is God and man, part and parcel of the Trinity. The concept of the Trinity (God, Holy Spirit, and Christ being one in ESSENCE, not merely purpose) is non-negotiable, as it is ancient theology passed down through the ages (for reference: Orthodox churches, just as ancient, have similar beliefs regarding the Trinity.) I don’t have anything personal against Mormons, but I do take serious issue with LDS theology… a brand spanking new Church suddenly developing its own unique brand of belief and packaging it as “Christian” because its believers worship a man by the same name but not the same essence of Jesus Christ? Questionable.
Reply
megan @ whatmegansmaking Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 8:20 am
I think the difference might be in who you say Jesus is. I agree that He was born of Mary, performed miracles, was crucified, and rose 3 days later. The question would be – do you believe He is fully God and fully man – eternal and part of the trinity? Or do you believe He is a created being? I honestly am not entirely sure of the Mormon beliefs so I am not trying to offend. Just trying to offer an opinion on what I’ve heard that would cause me to not call Mormons Christians.
Reply
Jackie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 9:08 am
I think its the same historical person. But I can see why some Christians aren’t convinced by the argument that we believe in the “same” Jesus, because to mainstream Christians the most important “thing” about Jesus is not that he was born of Mary, performed miracles, was crucified, and rose 3 days later. It’s that he was God. I think it is a pretty significantly different belief.
Reply
Katy Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Ah, I can see that difference in ideology, though for some reason I don’t see where that difference is so significant that it classifies us as not Christians. Sometimes I want to say “Why do *they* get to call *us* ‘Not Christian’? Why can’t we turn that on them and declare *them* not Christians because our doctrine differs in a few points concerning the same Diety we worship: Jesus Christ?”
We do believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two seperate beings – one in purpose – and with the Holy Spirit, make up the Godhead. When Christ is praying in Gethsamane and other accounts in the Bible, we believe He’s actually praying to His Father in Heaven, the Heavenly Father of us all.
Reply
Sarah Marie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Here is where I would tell you, respectfully, that the Church of LDS is much, much newer than, say, the Roman Catholic or Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Coptic or any other Church. So, it’s not a matter of simply cherry picking what theology one prefers and declaring others “un Christian”. Catholic and Orthodox churches claim direct apostolic tradition and succession.
The difference between believing in the Trinity or believing Jesus is human is foundational to Christian thought. In St. Augustine’s retractions, he posits: “They who have said that our Lord Jesus Christ is not God, or not very God, or not with the Father the One and only God, or not truly immortal because changeable, are proved wrong by the most plain and unanimous voice of divine testimonies; as, for instance, *In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.* For it is plain that we are to take the Word of God to be the only Son of God, of whom it is afterwards said, *And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us*, on account of that birth of His incarnation, which was wrought in time of the Virgin. But herein is declared, not only that He is God, but also that He is of the same substance with the Father; because, after saying, *And the Word was God*, it is said also, *The same was in the beginning with God: all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made.*”
The Trinity is especially important when it comes to even attempting to explain God’s mystery (it would be errant to oversimplify him, as it would be to divide him up into separate deities)and our faith in that mystery.
Reply
Danielle Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I’m curious, though, because the same evangelicals who call Mormons out for being “not christian” also deny that Catholics are christians. How do you feel about that?
Reply
Sarah Marie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
Ok. As a Catholic (which means “universal” btw) I believe in the Trinity, I believe Jesus was resurrected in fulfillment of ancient scripture, and I believe in one holy and apostolic Church. That last part in particular is important in differentiating me from the majority of mainstream Christians (as well as from LDS). I believe Jesus founded the Church, and that that Church happens to be what is known today as the Roman Catholic Church (in communion with other Catholic rites). Since I believe that (with good reason!), and since the Catholic Church is built on longstanding tradition extending all the way to the early Christians- read: the apostles- I find it laughable that modern Christians don’t understand that the Catholic Church is THE original Christian Church. Everything modern Christians believe is just a spin off of what Catholic saints have already written about for millennia. It’d be like… I don’t know- like a human child breaking away from his/her parents and then daring to question his/her parents’ humanness. Laughable.
Reply
Danielle Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
I don’t think it makes sense either. But the denials of Catholics’ christianity from these people is very vehement. They claim that the doctrines that define a christian have been corrupted by the Roman church. To me, it seems to highlight how no one needs to be policing a religion’s use of the “christian” label. I think it just creates divisions and conflict where there is so much more space for communion.
Reply
Jackie Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am
Yeah, I understand. I think it’s similar to the frustration that Muslims feel when they say they worship that Allah is the same God Jews and Christians worship, and not all Christians and Jews see it the same way.
I guess the best analogy I can come up with is how would it seem to you if someone insisted they worshiped the same God as you, but they felt that that God was a woman. Would it still seem the same?
Reply
Katy Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Definately food for thought.
Though, if I go into any Evangelical church and they hold up a picture of Jesus Christ and say “Raise your hand if this is who you worship”, I’ll be raising my hand too.
It’s a frustrating venture trying to let people know that you “are on their side” when the focus is doctrinal difference and you are talking about the same exact person they are. Maybe someday we can all put these differences aside and focus our attention instead on working together to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings.
As I get older, I definately try more to find common ground with those around me of similiar or slightly different beliefs and how we can use it for good, rather than constantly picking apart the differences.
Reply
November 27th, 2011 on 10:24 pm
Love this!
I was raised by atheists and went to a grade school where everyone was either 1. Jewish (but mostly culturally ie not religious), 2. Chinese, or 3. non-religious. Honestly to me all religions seem equally strange (a virgin birth? flying on a winged horse with an angel? being impregnated by a six-tusked white elephant? definitely not normal). Anyone who thinks their particular religion is NOT strange is just fooling themselves. In fact, isn’t that the whole point? that religion is outside the realm of the everyday?
I think people who call Mormonism a cult or not Christian (?) are just not familiar with it, as you are saying. Luckily for you and other Mormons, the growing numbers of LDS (including in politics) will probably change that shortly.
Reply
Jenna Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
As a Mormon it’s exciting for me to hear the frequent references to Kennedy and the ambivalence to Catholicism when he was running. Now Catholicism is “the norm” when we think of Christianity. Does that mean Mormonism will be the norm 50 years from now if Romney wins? JK
Reply
CD Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Where on earth is Catholicism the norm for Christianity, except for maybe ROME?! Even though a Catholic president wouldn’t be a bit deal anymore, mainstream American Christianity is and always will be Protestant and to some degree Evangelical, what with the Great Awakening and all.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 12:39 am
I have to agree with this…Catholics are a big chunk of America’s Christians but definitely still not “the norm.” Plus, there are loads of non-practicing “cradle Catholics.” I don’t think you want Mormonism to go the way Catholicism has in America.
I think if we had a nominee that was a true Conservative Catholic, people would freak too. In fact, take a look at how Rick Santorum has been treated/portrayed.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 12:39 am
PS…I would say Poland and Latin America are probably some of the few places where Catholicism is the norm for Christianity.
Reply
CD Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 7:23 am
Good call – you’re absolutely right about those two!
Reply
Sunny Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 9:01 am
I agree completely with Catholicism not being the norm for Christianity. I’m from Southern Illinois and although there are plenty of Catholics here, when someone mentions being a Christian, they are not talking about being Catholic they are talking about being Protestant or Baptist. Because of this for the longest time as a young kid, I didn’t think Catholics were Christian.
Reply
November 28th, 2011 on 9:23 am
At this time of year – and the older I get – my heart is always turned to how much more we can be doing for others in the world around us, whether local or across the world.
I hope that someday more people (including myself!) will do more to not only call themselves Christian but truly act like a follower of Christ. Especially at this time of year when we can get very centered on “things” and our “wants” I’m trying hard to reclassify what my needs and wants truly are so I can realize more areas I have to give. It’s hard – I love my “stuff” just as much as anyone, but until we try harder to give more of our time, prayers, and even money to bless others, I guess it won’t matter WHAT we call ourselves.
Reply
Katy Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Oh, yeah. I did love the article! Thanks Richard Mouw for joining the club! The “Mormons Aren’t in Some Vast Cult Just Because They Believe a Tiny Bit Differently” club!
Reply
November 28th, 2011 on 10:51 am
I”m going to have to disagree with you, Jenna. The LDS faith does not fit into an understanding of historical, Biblical Christianity. Here’s one example, in the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde says:
“Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is.”
This kind of theology would go against a very basic understanding that Christians hold. Remember what 1 Timothy 1:17 says, “Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” God is eternal and demands glory and honor. The heavens declare his glory!
Also, in Hebrews we clearly see that Jesus is God’s final prophet. Countless times in the OT we see the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus prophesied. Never is there a hint of Joseph Smith and tablets, and America. God told his chosen people the Israelites to look for a Messiah. Then He let us know that Jesus would return. We don’t need modern prophets because God has spoken to us though Christ and has given all believers the Holy Spirit.
Reply
November 28th, 2011 on 2:18 pm
So True! Especially when you consider that every single religion on the planet was once “new” and different and misunderstood and labeled as a threat to the prevailing religion of the day. Perspective, people!
Reply
November 28th, 2011 on 2:54 pm
I honestly could not care less if there are people and organizations who want to deny that my religion is Christian. We don’t need their approval and we shouldn’t act like we do. Do I have a relationship with Christ as my Lord and Savior? Does my church and religious texts help me to build that relationship? If the answers are yes, than I’m set. The only things left to do are to try to live more like Christ and to bring more of His love to those around me.
We can go back and forth poking holes in each other’s theology – there are gaping holes and dubious origins on both sides. But it doesn’t matter. Those who are making these “not christian” arguments aren’t going to change their minds and I can’t really see how it should matter to me or the church institution that they do.
Reply
November 29th, 2011 on 12:18 am
The reason it matters so much right now to many Mormons and to the institution is largely because of Mr. Mitt Romney. He’s likely the only Republican who could legitimately defeat Obama, except for the fact that very few Christians feel comfortable electing a Mormon president. As neither a Christian nor a Mormon (nor a Republican, for that matter), it’s been fascinating to watch the LDS faith come into the spotlight and mainstream Christians grapple with the issue. It’s good for all of us, I think.
Here’s hoping we can all learn to tolerate and celebrate the differences of others sooner rather than later. And that includes, you know, gays and lesbians, feminists, and those that like the occasional cocktail, too.
Reply
November 30th, 2011 on 7:13 pm
I’m not LDS, but the thing about “normal” reminds me of that quote, “Normal is a setting on a washing machine.” If you really think about it, all religions basically teach the same thing, which is to play nice with the other children. After all, one doesn’t have to be LDS to believe that we’re all God’s children, even if we call our Father by different names.
Reply