Sarah emailed me with a link to this fascinating fact sheet on Mormonism produced by a member of the interfaith network at Ford. Sarah’s dad was trying to understand her recent decision to convert to Mormonism, and a co-worker forwarded him this link. Sarah said it really helped him understand her new religion, and I think it might be helpful for some of you as well. Actually it’s not just a list non-members will enjoy, as I’ve never seen my own religion broken down this way either. Here are a few of my favorite tidbits*:
Utah is 50th in smoking, alcohol consumption, drunk driving, heart disease, cancer, and sick days.
The church operates schools in parts of the Pacific Ocean and Mexico for 10,000 students.
Utah is 50th in spending per pupil, but first in adults that graduated from high school and attended college.
Wyoming was first to allow women to vote; Utah was second, two months later, in 1870.
The church has 5.5 million members in the U.S., making it the fourth largest individual U.S. denomination.
In 1984 a non-LDS professor estimated 265 million members by 2080; so far growth has been faster.
As this growth has been steady, he said it will be the “first ‘new’ major world religion since Islam.”
*Two caveats. First, this list isn’t brand new, but it doesn’t seem like it was created within the past year. Second, I haven’t checked all the facts out, like how many visitors there might be to temple square each year.
A little note to say that Segullah is looking for essay, poetry, and fiction entries in their annual contest. I have considered entering, but I’m scared (why? I do not know.) I would very much like to be published though.
December 11th, 2011 on 9:46 am
I would not take this fact sheet seriously. Some of the information is certainly true, but much of it is not.
From the fact sheet: Utah is first in: charitable giving, scientists, household computers, children with two parents, and birth rate.
Charitable giving: no. In overall terms, naturally the bigger states are first (California, New York, Texas as 1, 2, 3); when adjusted for the state’s income (as in, what percentage of people’s income is donated) it’s Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma. You can look this up on the IRS website or google Generosity Index.
Scientists: no. Massachusetts, Washington, California are the first three; Utah is #20. Look here: http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedfiles/snei_2010_report.pdf
Household computers: no. Utah is #2 though, after New Hampshire! (the Annie E Casey Foundation has info on this)
Children with two parents (presumably this means LIVING with them): yes.
Birth rate: yes, by far.
The mix of fact and fiction makes it basically worthless IMO. I would look elsewhere for pro-LDS info.
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Jenna Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
You are alike a master researcher (I won’t admit to trying very hard to look up everything on the list). Did you just google everything? I’d like to get better at looking things up like this.
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Grace Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Yes, google is my friend. Higher education isn’t necessarily always that useful, but it’s good for learning how to research. Since my husband does it professionally, though, I do have the advantage of a resident expert.
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Katy Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
I just read this on this BYU Magazine article: Why Giving Matters (a great article to read just for the overall message!) The writer is not LDS though (Roman Catholic) if that lends any other interest in the source.
http://magazine.byu.edu/?act=view&a=2441
In this article the writer, an economist, states “The most charitable state in the United States is Utah, where people give approximately twice as much as the second leading state.” I don’t see any reference points for this, so I wish I could look up and verify. Perhaps he was including our tithing as chartiable donations?
I’m not telling you that you are wrong on this charitable giving point, just referenceing something I read – though I wish I could verify his source.
Nonetheless, it’s a great article about the benefits of charitable giving for us all!
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Grace Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
Charitable giving is very interesting to me (I used to work in fundraising). It’s kind of complicated, because it depends what metric you use: total given? percentage of population giving? percentage of income given? etc. I went with the amount of donations given per person, adjusted for the wealth of the state, because it seemed the most fair. (Since giving 10% of your income means something very different if you are Bill Gates or a person making $15,000/year.)
If you go by percentage of income (not adjusting for relative wealth), then Utah is first at 4.6% of income given.
All of these numbers include tithing/giving to your church as a charitable donation. If you didn’t include religious giving, the results would be very different indeed (New England might be first in that case).
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:04 am
That seems low to me because if 70% of Utah is LDS, and LDS tithe 10% then the total should be at least 7% of the state’s income given.
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Sharon Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Tithing is completely voluntary, and not all members are full tithe payers, because people vary in their levels of faithfulness to the principle, as in any faith. It would be impossible to pin it down specifically.
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jrm Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
So BYU reports that Utah is highest in giving, but doesn’t provide the refernce to the statistic. I wonder if there is any slant to that? Do you question anything that is spoon fed to you?
Also, I wouldn’t tout BYUs independant study program aka “The Great Mormon Grade Grab” as it has been referenced by many NCAA athletes.
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Katy Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
I think if you reread my comment you’ll find that I’m not simply or blindly accepting what is being “spoon fed to me.” I’m simply linking to article to get the orginial commenter’s thoughts because I truly want to better understand. If you reread Grace’s comment to me, it’s insightful and informative.
While I DO wish the author had provided his research on that statistic, and , yes, it is found in BYU Magazine, it wasn’t written by a member of our church. And I know that the intention of this article wasn’t to tout the awesomeness of Utah, but rather to discuss how great our entire country is at giving in comparison to other nations and to give the real benefits of giving to encourage us to give more.
And I have no idea why you are bringing up Independant Study – is anybody here “touting” it? Is there latent bitterness about it?
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December 11th, 2011 on 9:48 am
On another note, submit your stuff! You’re a great writer. The worst that could happen is nothing at all.
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December 11th, 2011 on 2:10 pm
Yes, Grace. Good points. Another thing to keep in mind re: the size of the church is that getting out once you’re in is a difficult, frustrating process. I haven’t been practicing for over a decade and I definitely do not want to be a part of the church, yet I am still part of that membership estimation. I also still get phone calls, visits from missionaries, and cards from the RS praying for me to rejoin the fold. I am finally starting the process of getting my name removed from the church’s records and it’s a daunting task.So…take that stuff with a grain of salt.
Another question: does tithing count as charitable giving? I have the feeling it probably is, and I’m not sure how I feel about it. That’s another complicated issue for me.
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December 11th, 2011 on 2:13 pm
An interesting fact about the Ford Motor Company:
The reason that Dearborn, Michigan (Ford’s HQ) has the highest percentage of Muslims in the country is that Henry Ford was incredibly anti-semitic to the point that he recruited Muslims to come work in his factories so Jews wouldn’t.
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Sophia Reply:
December 11th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Holy crap! I had no idea. Related to Dearborn- have you seen the clips/PR for “American Muslim”? We don’t have T.V. but I perused TLC’s website for some clips after hearing about it on NPR.
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:07 am
I’ve gotten to watch an episode or two…usually I’m puttering around the apartment Sunday night trying to get ready for the week. I would find it fascinating though. I was a religious studies major in college but my Islam class was one of my least well taught ones. It seems a lot of typical TLC reality show drama – fights with family, blah blah blah. But it is interesting to me as someone who has never lived in a place where Islam was very present (Southwest VA and Montana).
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Helena Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Jackie, do you have a reference for your claims about the Ford family? It’s a rather terrible accusation to make.
I lived in Michigan for a while and had never heard this. Many of our Jewish community were working at Henry Ford – both in the hospital and in the ranks of that very auto business.
Why are there so many Scandinavians in Minnesota? Why are there so many Poles in Chicago? Because one family settled and saved to bring their other family, who settled and saved to bring their other family… Isn’t this the case with ethnic communities all over the world?
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
I make no claims about the entire Ford family, but Henry Ford’s anti-Semitism is well documented. In the 1920s he published a newspaper called the Dearborn Independent which had many anti-semitic articles. You can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn_Independent. Arab workers were recruited by Ford (http://bentley.umich.edu/research/guides/arab_americans/ ; http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2028057,00.html)
I’m not saying that that is the case now (my reason for posting that was because Ford’s history is probably why there is an interfaith council – do you know of any other big corporations that have that?) And of course chain immigration is the reason that there are currently a lot of Arab families in Michigan, but there are usually reasons why one group settled in one place in the first place.
It’s good to hear the mindset has changed there. Which isn’t surprising – what I’m talking about happened 100 years ago!
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Henry Ford published a four volume set called the ” The International Jew”. The first volume was ” The International Jew: The World’s foremost problem” (1920).
See also Neil Baldwin’s “Henry Ford and the Jews: The Mass Production of Hate”
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December 11th, 2011 on 11:31 pm
Tithing counts as charitable donations. When not considering donations to one’s Church or related religious charities that face of charitable donations in Utah (and the rest of America) changes dramatically.
I absolutely believe that some of these stats are correct ( like highest birth rate) and when juxtaposed with other Utah stats like highest rate of depression (as per Mental Health America) http://www.nmha.org/go/state-ranking stats contribute to my mormon fascination.
Also, Salt Lake City has highest leader in plastic surgery and Utah has 2nd most bankruptcy filings (used to be first).
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:12 am
I’ve heard the stat about highest depression rate and high bankruptcy filings – my thoughts as to why that occurs may or may not be the actual reasons, but it’s what comes to mind first. With the issue of depression, that means the highest case of people admitting depression (I assume) and seeking therapy/medication for it. As a people that don’t drink or abuse drugs, I think our issues of depression may come to the forefront more easily since we can’t use other substances to “make us feel better.” But I could be wrong.
And the bankruptcy filings – well, that’s one I really wish didn’t exist! My *opinion* on that has been that since we give 10% of our income in tithing and mothers traditionally don’t work if they have young children, that people are just being getting in over their heads trying to keep up with their neighbors that don’t pay 10% of their income and do have both parents working. Our society as a whole, especially those just getting out of school and married, tend to want everything their parents have *right now* – big home, great car, vacations, etc. – and I think those in the LDS community are no different. We should be – we should try to manage our money better in light of the above reasons, but it can still be a problem. I don’t know if I’m right about all this, but just some thoughts.
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Re Depression- I have heard and seen that rationalization before, but the Head of the Psychiatric Association of Utah believes that of the reasons is the dominant Mormon culture demanding so much of its members, especially women. Utah is also number 1 in prescription drug abuse (2007).
Katy- there are some darker, more surprising stats that I believe the Church was a kind of stance on. What is your take?:
-16th highest in domestic homicide http://nomoresecrets.utah.gov/Annual%20Reports/nms_annualreport_2004.pdf
- highest rate of porn subscriptions (from Harvard Economics study :http://www.columbiamissourian.com/media/multimedia/2009/03/10/media/redlightstates.pdf) ( I know Utah has high internet usage, but this is a rate per broadband users. I also realize it is higher by not a very wide margin, but given the dominant mormon culture it is still interesting. Google analytics shows Utah in highest for searches of ‘pornography’, ‘nudity’ and ‘strip tease’ by a wide margin. http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22nudity%22&geo=US&date=1%2F2010%2012m&cmpt=geo
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
sorry, I mean ‘has a stance on’. I don’t really know or remember what it is, but I remember seeing a response (either official or unofficial I don’t know). I’m speaking of the porn stats, I don’t think I’ve ever read anything from the Church regarding domestic abuse or homicide.
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
edited to add the above is a clarification for a reply to Katy that is awaiting moderation so it looks like they may be published out of order if my reply is approved.
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Kristin Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 9:19 am
I live in Utah now, but was not raised here. I have been here for almost a decade, and the statistics concerning plastic surgery and bankruptcy do not surprise me at all. I know quite a few people in this state, LDS and non-LDS, who bit off more than they could chew when it came to their home purchasing. Why? Because it is the “norm” here to have a HUGE house with a big finished basement, and a large yard to put a trampoline in where your kids can run around. Is it bad to have that big home? Nope…*if you can afford it* that is where a lot of people went wrong here, and they will tell you too, it is usually qualified by the statement “the people giving me the loan said I would be alright, so I figured it must be true.” Lots of times there is zero accountability on the part of the family that lost the house; they oft times did not do the math of how much house they could afford. They took other people at their word (loan officers) and took on more debt than they could handle. This also carries over into people feeling like they need to have a boat to go to Lake Powell each year, a cabin in the mountains to spend time with family, a nice big car, a family vacation to Mexico/Hawaii/Florida (these are the three I hear the most) every summer, a huge TV in their house along with top of the line appliances etc. This list could go on and on. Since I was not raised in this culture, it is pretty easy to see it because I don’t just think “this is how things are.” I know that there are people who can afford all the things I just mentioned, and there is nothing wrong with that. They can buy whatever they desire with their money, but the people who spread themselves too thin financially (and there are MANY)have had to file for bankruptcy because of it. Bottom line, they lived beyond their means and tried WAY too hard to keep up with the Jones. A great example is our 30″ TV in our living room. I have had kids and adults alike here remark on the tiny TV. It does look small in comparison to the 60″ and 72″ TV’s, but we don’t see value in getting a bigger one for the sake of a bigger TV…we hardly use this one as it stands, why buy something bigger?! Despite the comments I occasionally receive for the way we are doing things financially from friends and neighbors (opting to pay off our home and student loans over buying the huge TV, immediately finishing our basement, and putting in a pool) I am happy to keep being fiscally responsible and have a nice retirement later on, and overall avoid the crushing debt so many are under here.
The plastic surgery statistic is interesting as well. I have gone to lots of playgroups with LDS women who lament the way their body looks after they had their children. I am the first to tell you that there are things about my body that changed after I had my child, and I wish my body didn’t have the stretch marks on my stomach, the less-than-perky-boobs etc. that come with carrying a human for 9 months and then breastfeeding afterwards. I know that there are lots of women here in Utah (LDS and not) who opted to fix these things via plastic surgery. The use of hair and eyelash extensions, tattooed eyeliner, eyelash tinting (permanent mascara), tanning beds, and colored contacts are commonplace here. Laser hair removal is a huge industry here too, as well as laser lipo, and I even know a few women who had the sweat producing glands in their armpits removed because they “felt gross when they were sweating, and other people could see it” I see women like this everyday when I run errands. I think that this stems from women feeling the need to be “perfect” and to look as good as “everyone else” does. They have built up this duty in their minds that they need to always look amazing 24/7. I know this is an extreme example, but I know one woman here who never has let her husband see her without makeup, and they have been married for 10 years. She told me that she simply goes to bed after him, and makes it a point to get up before him so he never sees her without makeup on. I use this example only to show that there is a feeling here among women to always be dressed up with a voluminous head of hair perfectly done and a full face of makeup. This is also evidenced in these same women overly making-up their children. I saw a three year old just the other day with a full head of highlights. I have also seen babies as small as 12 months in with their moms getting manicures and pedicures with polish almost every time I get my toes done. I know of little girls (the one that comes to mind is 7) who gets spray tans in the winter so she doesn’t have to be pale. My SIL is a photographer and recently was asked by the mom if she could “add a tan in photoshop” to her 5 year old because the mom doesn’t like her skin tone. This was BEFORE pictures were even taken, so it wasn’t the way her skin photographed, it was the mom literally not liking that her child is pale. Examples aside, it is a trend that is disturbing on many levels, and something I hope hope hope to protect my daughter from as she grows up.
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Jenna Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 10:23 am
This is a big reason we don’t want to live in Utah. My sister talks about stuff like this all the time.
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Jenna, this reminds me of that blog Seriously So Blessed and kinda seems like other impressions I’ve gotten from the blog-world (minus you!) that there is a lot of importance on being (what was the term Jezebel used?) Shiny and Hip?
My husband and I talked about when we were in SLC last spring and went to Temple Square, that it seems LDS place a lot of importance on being financially well off (not saying they are greedy or anything, but that the “American Dream” is pretty important to achieve). To me its interesting because it seems to contrast my experience of Catholicism (which I know other people will have different opinions on), where simplicity/modesty is highly valued, and many many Catholics are immigrants or from immigrant families so they aren’t that well off/living in well off areas in the first place.
Not that one is better than the other (obviously we are attempting to become well off!) Anyway I think that this would be an interesting post about LDS culture – I don’t know if you’re familiar with the idea of the Protestant Work Ethic, an idea that America has the work ethic it does because early settlers felt the need to prove that they were “chosen” or “saved” by their material success, which kinda evolved into us seeing financial success as a value. I know you did your shiny and hip post, but I think it would be interesting to hear more about the wider culture of LDS (or Utah)and if/why you see these kinds of things Kristin mentioned. I think its interesting to me too cause Montana is so close/similar but so different culturally! (Though similar in areas like depression & suicide – I think we are higher than Utah).
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:26 am
In 2009 Utah was 9th in suicide overall and in 2006 was first in suicide for men aged 15-24.
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Jenna Reply:
December 14th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
I like this idea, but I”m not sure how to implement it without it sounding judgmental? It makes the other Mormons mad when I talk about that. For instance, I’d like to write a post that talks about how most of our wedding receptions happen in the cultural hall of the church, and how it’s turned into this really interesting cultural phenomenon, with people spending a whole lot of money to try to make a basketball court not look like a basketball court, but I’m not sure I can write about it without people getting mad. Actually lately I admit I’m questioning my ability to write in a non-inflammatory way. I have tone issues.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
I DEFINATELY think that the Utah Mormon world/culture is different than what you will experience even just south of Utah in Arizona. I truly think that even though I love my fellow members of the church, when you get a whole lotta of us together, sometimes we’re competing to be the ‘best’ Mormon we can be. You don’t find this in other populations of LDS members and having grown up else where than Utah it’s something I picked up on readily. The people are good there – but there is a level of competition (if that’s the word?) that exists. Where I grew up, you just did the best you could. Everyone supported everyone else – we are devout members, but something about those I grew up with was a bit more…hmm…relaxed?
I think that’s why I’ve never understood the higher rates of depression and the explanation being that we women are holding ourselves up to some impossible standard. I’ve never felt like that. I’ve always just done the best I can. Am I perfect? No. Am I the perfect mother, wife, Primary teacher, RS member, neighbor, friend, EVERYTHING? No way. But I’m totally cool with that because I’m just doing my best to get along and be happy. I don’t let outside pressures get to me too much. And, I don’t *feel* pressured by myself, others, or my leaders to be so much better. I don’t know why women beat themselves up – - do the best you can (and you can’t do everything!) and just let go of the rest! God isn’t expecting perfection out of us every second of the day – so neither should we!
I love being a member of this church and have felt nothing but happy since I don’t let others specifically define how I’m doing – it’s between me and God (and my husband too I suppose!;) and as long as my relationship with God is good I don’t let the way others want to always “be the best” and “be everything” get to me.
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Kristin Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Yes! I agree that it is completely different outside of Utah. Before I settled down here I was back and forth between California and Utah during school, and traveled lots of places outside the US for various reasons. Every place that I went to church outside of Utah was very very different. Was the doctrine the same in Utah and all of the other places? Of course! But the feeling was, I think you pegged it with your word choice, more relaxed. People weren’t so worried about outwardly appearances and were more concerned with things that are more important like their family’s well-being, and making sure those around them were alright too. Here, it is almost comical seeing the families walking into church 20 minutes late all in matching clothes, the little girls in tiny high heels, and the boys with matching ties. It seems that priorities are a bit off sometimes. I would most certainly agree that this is a Utah thing, and not an LDS thing.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
I think you said it well: whatever flaws/problems/issues/idiosyncracies, big or small, I would much more attribute to being a Utah thing, not a LDS thing. Having been an active member in Arizona, California, Utah (at BYU), and now Ohio populations, I can tell you it is a bit different in Utah – in some ways, GREAT, in some ways….:)
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Natalie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:31 am
I agree that you have to praise the good stats with the bad ones. The high porn use, the high depression rate, etc.
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Natalie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Oh, and to add — I wonder, and I’m just hypothesizing here, if women place such a value on their appearance because the LDS culture doesn’t appreciate their mind. Women are not equals… and many conference talks praise beauty. Women go to college to find a husband and why they are there, they hear devotionals about women putting on make-up to not look like “death warmed over.” (I kid you not)
That fact sheet says women were the first to vote. Yes, because Utah was cheating to try to become a state and they needed voters. They quickly ended the practice.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Maybe this is an entirely *Utah* thing because I have never felt like this. I grew up in Arizona – with parts being heavily LDS – but not quite like Utah. I’ve never felt like my mind isn’t appreciated. I’ve always felt supported and encouraged to attend school – getting married is also heavily encouraged of course – but getting training and education has been, for me, something I’ve always been given nothing but full support to do.
I always feel that the church leadership really wants us to get whatever training and education we can – for one, it falls under the umbrella of being self-reliant and prepared for the future. Even if you marry and don’t have to work while you have children, you never know what circumstances will arise – loss of spouse job, death, or other issues, so we’ve always been told that we need to have something worthwhile to fall back on. For another, church leadership reminds us that God doesn’t want a bunch of mindless, unthinking women raising the next generation. As mothers, even if we never step foot in the traditional workforce, our training or education in anything makes us more well-rounded and better able to raise our children to be more well-rounded, good citizens.
I have never, ever felt not equal to a single person or man in this church. I feel just as important, if not *more* important, then the men that hold the priesthood, and I know that feeling comes in part by the way we are exalted by our leadership and praised – I don’t feel less than at all. There are many problems with the people of our church – they are not perfect as is no population of people – religious or not.
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
I think its really important for women to become educated even if they plan on being SAHMs. My best friend in high school’s (who was mormon but I don’t think its very relevant here) mom divorced her dad and never had held a job so didn’t have any skills to fall back on. She went back to school in her 50s (which I find really admirable!) but it was definitely difficult. And not only having an education as a back-up-plan, but I think it leads to better educated children.
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Natalie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
I don’t mean to sound bitter… I’m moving today so I’m sure I sounded a bit short.
I just wonder if many woman might feel a need to keep up appearances of the external kind.
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Jackie Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
I see this some in the evangelical Christian community too (which I was somewhat involved in in college), so I don’t think it’s unique to the LDS but I think there are a lot of similarities in the two groups. For one, both place a lot of importance on attracting new members, which means you have to make it look enticing.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
ALL women feel that – that would explain the dozens of fashion, self-improvement, and beauty magazines. Certainly LDS women are not immune to that. The need to look “perfect” since we’d like to think that everything we touch and do should be “perfect” is where LDS women in particular may get in trouble, though as I stated a number of times, I’ve never felt like I needed to look amazing to be a good wife, to be a good mother, or to be a good little LDS girl. (Of course I want to look good! That’s natural! I’m just not going to make myself crazy or go to any lengths to achieve it) It may sound harsh, but anyone that solely blames their desire to look perfect on them being a member of the church is really missing something in themselves that they are overlooking in attempts to reason with it in themselves.
I’ve always felt like conference talks I’ve ever heard growing up praise motherhood, virtue, femininity, but not outright “physical beauty”. If so, oops! My letting myself get overweight recently means I’m in serious jeopardy with God!
(if that were true, I’d be in trouble right now!:)
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
I can only guess that most other women don’t feel like you Katy, that the leadership really DOES want to have higher education- because Utah has the lowest rate of women pursuing university education.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
No, they really do push higher education – it’s not just my perception.
It’s just that not all women in UTAH seem to be following that – as Kristen and I have surmised in other comments above, Utah Mormons are not exactly representative of all Mormons, even ones in nearby states. Our beliefs and doctrines are the same everywhere, but local culture can and does influence how exactly those lives look from the outside and are experienced from the inside.
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
But if the good facts about Utah that Jenna presented in her post represent the LDS faith community, then so do the bad, no?
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
It seems that the stats – good and bad – seem to jump from being a “Utah is (blank) in this area” and “LDS people (blank)” so some apply primarily to Utah and can’t be held as the norm for all members in the country and around the world, but some are more based on the general population.
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 9:03 pm
based on the general population of Utah or general population of Mormon’s around the world? Isn’t the point the general pop of Utah is mostly Mormon? I’m not aware of any stats of the same issues (depression, plastic surgery, etc.) of populations of similar LDS concentration outside of Utah but I would be interested because I find very organized religions to be very interesting.
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Katy Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
General population of Mormons – which several years ago our membership outside the United States surpassed that in the United States. So to blanketly apply stats that specify Utah wouldn’t always be quite accurate to apply to the rest of the church population (maybe sometimes, but not always).
Yes, I would be very interested too in more stats. Especially to learn of stats in my own Arizona – they wouldn’t be crazy-different I would assume, but since the concentration is high (in comparision with many other places) it would be interesting to note. I always viewed my lifestyle as an “Arizona Mormon”
to be different than someone raised in Utah. Same beliefs, no changes to the doctrines or lifestyle, just changes to influences on one another within the religion and other perceptions.
If Utah has the highest rate of something, with it primarily being Mormon, it would be easy to assume that that is an accurate view of Mormons across the board no matter where they live, but that just doesn’t seem quite right to me. It would be interesting to see a subsection of the LDS population analyzed – perhaps Utah has the highest rate of getting help for depression, but perhaps a subgroup of highly concentrated LDS members in, oh, Japan, have the lowest rate of depression. Just threw that out there – no idea if that’s true – just would be interesting to investigate…if I had a more research-loving mind that is!
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vintage_paige Reply:
December 13th, 2011 at 12:16 am
I live (or at least am from) a region I believe has the highest rate of Mormons outside of the U.S. and am strangely intrigued by all of this so thanks for the replies!
Kristin Reply:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Hmmm…interesting idea. I could see this certainly being true with some women I know, but I wouldn’t blanket this over the LDS community as a whole. I do see this attitude much more in Utah however. I went to BYU and I occasionally heard the talks on putting on make-up, dressing well, etc. but this was usually a small portion of their remarks and was balanced with other aspects of a person’s inward qualities needing to be groomed as well (ie service, compassion, prayer and scripture study, studying at school etc.). I will say that you do get the occasional lay member (read: immature young man) give a Sunday school lesson and make sexist remarks about women needing to “be cute enough to date” etc., which is not received well by the women in the class for sure.
One of my favorite quotes was from a talk a general auxiliary member (General YW President for the LDS people reading this) gave at a small gathering at BYU once. She said when she was young she had horrible acne, and her mother told her “when you get ready in the morning, get ready for the day and what lies ahead as best you can. Put on your makeup and do your hair, but when you leave the house forget what you look like and focus on what you can do for others.” I think that an attitude like this is more what the LDS schools such as BYU might be teaching.
As for the going to school just to get a husband, that might be the case for some, and I always found that disheartening and sad when I was told that was their main objective for getting a higher education. I was at BYU for 7 years(4 undergrad and 3 for masters) I can tell you from first hand experience that many of the girls there are really there to learn more about their chosen fields. Out of my roommates from my freshman year (none of us knew each other beforehand, we were placed together) all 5 graduated and myself and one other are married. The rest went on to masters and doctoral degrees and are still enjoying dating guys in their young single adult wards.
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December 12th, 2011 on 12:13 pm
Do you have something you’ve already written that you want to submit, or are you deciding if you want to write something to submit?
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December 12th, 2011 on 1:38 pm
Jenna thanks for mentioning the Segullah contest! I’m the PR-lady for Segullah…and yes, yes, yes, you should submit some work!!! What do you have to lose, right?
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December 13th, 2011 on 3:14 pm
First, I’ll say that I haven’t read all of the comments, so forgive me if I am repeating something. Second, I work in market research for a newspaper company, and as such, we have access to Scarborough survey research data. I just received an email that talked about Givers and Volunteers. Givers are defined as “American adults 18+ who have live in a household that contributed money to an Arts/Cultural, Healthcare/Medical, Religious or Social Care/Welfare organization in the past 12 months and Volunteers as American adults 18+ who have participated in volunteer work in the past 12 months.” According to the press release, Salt Lake City is the top DMA for both Givers and Volunteers. Here is a link to that press release: http://www.scarborough.com/press-release.php?press_id=salt-lake-city-minneapolis-and-harrisburg-pa-lend-a-helping-hand-as-the-top-local-markets-for-giving-and-volunteering&q_string=&s_string=/press.php
I remembered reading this post earlier today, and thought this bit of research was worth sharing.
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