My first change is subtle and nuanced, but the decision to alter my thinking regarding the type of media I watch is a change I’m looking forward to. To understand the change that has happened, reading this post on my media standards is essential. In short, I’ve decided to watch my first R-rated movie. (I have watched “clean” version of R rated films like Amelie, Memento, Man on Fire, but those are difficult to find because movie studios have said they don’t want people editing the films to clean them up.)
I was reading through the things I wrote previously, and when I say out loud that I’ve decided to watch R-rated movies now it sounds much more dramatic than it is. My standards for violence, profanity, and sexuality haven’t changed all that much. What is dramatic is that I’ve decided not to worry about what is said in the Strength of Youth pamphlet when I choose what to watch. Previously, I read what was said about movies (or other things in that pamphlet) and made my list of what I should or shouldn’t do, and that was it. Now, I make my own list.
You know what I’ve always wanted to watch? Schindler’s List. But I never did because it was rated R, and I wanted to hold on to the statement that I had never seen a rated R movie. Not because I thought it made me “better” in some Mormon sense, but because I wanted to be able to tell my kids that I had done it, and they could to. Now I guess I will tell them that I’d like them to follow my example through high school, and that I think they will likely be better off for it, but once they are in college and developing their critical thinking skills it’s up to them.

I think if I were to write out my new media standard now, it would be that I want to try to focus my media consumption on things that I feel broaden my worldview in some way. I’ll probably apply this most stringently to movies, though I’d like to take a closer look at the tv shows I watch while I cook because time spent watching Drop Dead Diva could be spent watching Ted talks (Biggest Loser will always be on my playlist though, because I’m such a sucker for these personal stories of triumph, no matter how short-lived they may be). I want to go through the DVDs I own and get rid of those that don’t fit with my goals (maybe I’ll do a big giveaway and send them off to you guys?
), and when a movie comes out instead of immediately searching the Rotten Tomatoes page for the MPAA rating I want to look at the synopsis and the number of critics who liked it and think about what the movie means and how it could make me think.
I’m still going to keep using the site Kids In Mind, because I’m worried about desensitization. I like that I don’t swear, and I think it would be easy for me to start slipping and doing so when angry, frustrated, or surprised if I was consuming a lot of media that used such language frequently. And that’s certainly not the type of sounds I want filling my son’s sweet little ears. I don’t really want to a lot of nudity, frankly because I like that those things stay out of my head when I’m being intimate with my husband. I don’t want images of unrealistic, jealousy-inducing bodies popping up in my head during those times. Violence has always been the area where I am the most lenient because of the ways it does (/not) affect me, and will continue to be so, largely because I don’t have any intention of watching movies that are violent in an attempt to celebrate violence (a la horror films). I’m thinking more along the lines of Saving Private Ryan (I realize that’s the second Spielberg movie I’ve named in this post, I think it’s because these are movies I’ve been intrigued by for a long time, hearing my friends talk about them when I was a teenager, but have never allowed myself to watch), a movie which, based on the synopsis, may will help me think about war and move closer to understanding what war is and how it affects those who fight.
As for some of the things I named in my previous post, pornography is still out (for the reasons mentioned above). Same standards for music. Interestingly, we ordered some Friends DVDs via Netflix, and I just couldn’t get excited about watching them. I think I loved that series so much because of the way I shared it with my college girlfriends. Now, I love 30 Rock and Parks and Recreation because I watch them with That Husband.
I actually have a fun request for you. Now that I’ve opened myself up to new possibilities, what do you think I should watch? I’m still kind of puzzling through exactly what do and don’t want to watch, I think it will be a process that ebbs and flows over time. Currently on my list are:
Schindler’s List
Passion of the Christ
Taxi to the Dark Side
United 93
I opened up The Sweet Hereafter and Ides of March from Netflix this morning, though I’m still not sure what I think about the latter as it is really profanity-laden. We’ve considered a ClearPlay player to allow us to eliminate the profanity from movies like Ides of March if we wanted, but I’m not sure what we’ll do yet.














January 19th, 2012 on 8:43 am
Hi, I think it is so great you are willing to be more open as films can be so educational and thought provoking. I am a bit of a film buff and it is hobby I share with my husband. I am sure you will get lots of suggestions, so I will give just one,
Children of Men.
It blew my mind and really made me think about our society and where it was headed as a whole.
Highly, higly recommened!!
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Brooke Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:00 am
Oooh, I really enjoyed that one as well! Very thought provoking.
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Errign Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Yes, that movie is excellent!
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Rachel Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:31 am
Yep – Children of Men will change your life. Excellent movie!
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January 19th, 2012 on 8:49 am
Pan’s Labyrinth. I *loved* that movie.
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Grace Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:04 am
Pan’s Labyrinth is really beautiful. I found the violence (especially the torture) too much to take personally, but I agree it’s very well done.
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Sophia Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Yes, I definitely had to look away during those scenes!
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phruphru Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
Pan’s Labrynth scared the crap out of me but it was definitely a beautifully done film.
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Jen Allyson Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:31 pm
I love PL too! I couldn’t watch some of the scenes either, but It didn’t take away from the movie at all. I’m used to closing my eyes occasionally during movies anyway.
I also loved Inglorious Basterds – though not quite in the same genre – but I did have to close my eyes a few times. Terantino is one of the best story tellers out there.
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Liz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 8:01 pm
Well, yeah, but if there was ever a man to glorify violence it’s Tarantino.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:01 am
I love The Shawshank Redemption and the Green Mile! Watch those, they are both great!
I am not very religious, but I do not watch any old R rated movie. I only watch things that interest me. I also do not like very violent films like horror movies, but movies like Saving private Ryan are great films.
Oh, one more movie. Watch Forrest Gump if you have not seen it!
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Teale Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:26 am
I second all of these! And the books–The Green Mile is one of my favorite books (and a Stephen King one, at that!)
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Jessica Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Those are two of my favorites
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Jackie Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Green Mile is great!
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Hannah Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Forrest Gump is one of my favorite movies! I show it to my high school students at the end of the year to review all of the events in recent history that we talked about. However, I do have to skip over some scenes in the film which you would probably want to skip over as well (i.e. Forrest at Jenny’s college and New Year’s Eve). Other than that, the profanity isn’t all that bad.
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Rebekah Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 7:50 am
Shawshank is a must! It’s worth buying and watching every few years.
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Nodakademic Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:15 am
Yes to all of these. Especially Forrest. I’ve seen it literally 100s of times. Probably my favorite movie ever.
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Erin J Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:17 am
Forrest Gump isn’t rated R. My parents took me & my sister to see it when we were like 10 & 11
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Nodakademic Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:31 am
You know, I didn’t think it was! (My mom let me watch it as a young teen, and she generally would not do that if something was rated R.) But others here mentioned it, so I figured perhaps i was wrong!
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:03 am
The Shawshank Redemption
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:05 am
Children of Men is amazing! I would also recommend the documentary “dear zachary: a letter to a son about his father” there are some F words, but I forgive it because they interview parents who’s son was murdered. It is fascinating, really. 127 Hours is also a good one. I don’t think e language was all that bad, and the gore wasn’t either. They cut away from the incident at good moments, I think. It is such a life affirming movie and made me SO grateful for what I have. Changed the way I prayed, for sure! I am much more thankful now.
I just watched the Ides of March. Rather pleased with it, actually. I didn’t think the F words were too much, but I have been watching R rated movies for years, so maybe I am desensitized.
I don’t think is has more than the average R rated film, though. The HBO movie Recount is also a good one, although I can’t remember how bad the language is. Even if though we all know the ending, it is still interesting.
I used to have the same standards as you, but changed my tune in college. I don’t really agree with the R rated movie “thing,” especially when we are a worldwide church and some countries do not have the same rating systems. What is R here is 14+ in Canada and so on. I think at I would show SPR to my junior, after they had studied WWII that year.
Anyway, what is come down to is that I don’t think that an organization like the MPAA should hold sway over my choices to that extent, so I make my own list of what I will, and won’t watch.
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:53 am
“Dear Zachary” KILLED me. I did not see that end coming. But it was a well done and very moving. As I’ve said in my comment, as an LDS person I generally stay away from R rated films – it’s a good guidline to follow on it’s head – but you’re totally right about how different rating systems are here vs. other countries. Are we more righteous than our worldwide brothers/sisters in the church because we stay away from them more here in the U.S.? Of course not.
Regardless of rating and where you live, we simply need to do right by our own personal testimony and what standards we want to follow for our entertainment (and not yield total control to an organization’s arbitrary ideas).
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:55 am
(…and by organization I mean the MPAA):)
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Julia Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:02 am
OMG the end of Dear Zachary?!?!?! I was BAWLING. But I still recommend it to EVERYONE.
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Michelle Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
I actually tell people NOT to watch Dear Zachary. I wish I could clear it from my mind. I was a disaster the entire night and for days after watching it. Wrecked completely. It is really well done but it takes such a horrible turn that I can’t imagine someone willfully watching it. I would hate to tell someone to watch it only to have them tell me, “I couldn’t sleep for weeks!!!”
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Julia Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
I think that people need I see it for the informative side of it. The fact that she ran so easily and there was nothing further the families could do? Yes it’s gut wrenching and horrible, but eye opening as well. And of course I don’t recommend it without fair warning!
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
Ha! I always tell people… You need to watch Dear Zachary… It will desttroy you, in a good way. Just watch the Muppets or something afterwards and you”ll be okay. The “life’s a happy song” number would cheer anyone up!
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Emmie Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:40 pm
Dear Zachary….I don’t think I have ever cried so hard at a movie in my entire life.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:13 am
I like your take on this. 2 of my favorite movies are Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and Mr. Nobody.
I’m excited to read everyone else’s suggestions.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:27 am
Choosing good entertainment that entertains and/or enriches your life is less about following a specific mandate – letter-of-the-law – and more about evaluating the intent of the content and the benefit vs. harm (as you percieve it) – the spirit-of-the-law.
For us LDS people – if we do choose to stay away from R rated movies altogether because we want to adhere to the guidline and avoid content we don’t agree with – can’t then shut off our minds and think that anything with a lower rating is perfectly acceptable. There are plenty of lower rated movies and television that is just as filled with gratiutious content and that isn’t exactly faith-promoting.
It’s always felt hypocritical to me when people avoid R ratings, but have no problem seeing a movie that probably *should* have been R rated. It seems more spiritually and intellectually honest to be the kind of person that does occasionally see an R rated movie, but judges that movie and all others regardless of rating on the same scale based on their level of acceptance of certain storytelling usage (sex, violence, swearing, drug use, etc). Which – by the way – I put myself in that category of being somewhat hypocritical!
However, Jenna is one of the few people I’ve know that both before and after her decisions regarding R movies has been in my mind consistent. When she didn’t want to see any R rated before, she was also very selective about other entertainment as well. Even now that she’s decided it’s okay to see an R film on a case-by-case basis, that selectivity doesn’t seem to have changed.
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:41 am
I do want to be clear that if any (including fellow LDS people of course) want to stay away completely away from R-rated films, that’s great. At the end of the day, we are just talking about movies here..not matters of life and death.
And while I have seen the occasional R-rated film in my life and don’t feel horrible for it, I still habitually stay away from them for the most part. Most films we enjoy (my husband’s FAVORITES are Godfather 1 & 2 and Shawshank Redemption – seen those a trillion times) we first saw and many just watch on TV. We normally don’t encounter any R movies that we wanted to see so bad that we couldn’t wait until it comes on TV anyway.
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Gwendolyn Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
I agree with Katy, it’s a case by case thing: I’ve rented movies that were PG-13 and turned out to be way more inappropriate (I’m talking full frontal nudity, graphic torture, and extremely violent deaths) because they came out before the R-rating was instituted and nothing in the description implied I would have to fast-forward through 30% of the movie.
Ever seen DragonSlayer? Don’t, it’s kinda gross.
I do try to stay away from R-rated films as a habit, and violent PG-13 films also. My personal standard is the level of gore and whether the antagonist is human. My brain is ok if something is fantasy violence (for example: The Lord of the Rings…violent but classic and fantasy) but I can’t watch something like Silence of the Lambs (cannibalism!) without my night terrors and anxiety kicking me in the head.
Just to be clear I’ve seen the Patriot, Hotel Rwanda, Saving Private Ryan, and Braveheart, and sobbed through most of each of them, but it opened my mind to the violence that is hatred and war.
And my husband loves horror movies but I can’t watch most of them: I can handle werewolves, vampires, or aliens. Zombies are difficult (I actually punched my husband in the nose when he startled me with a zombie moan and a playful grab…who punches a zombie?). And I refuse to watch movies with serial killers or ghosts/demons/witches.
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Gwendolyn Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:26 pm
Oh! And I’m not saying there aren’t movies I wish I’d never seen (DragonSlayer!) and some movies I want to see but I’m nervous about the violence. Shawshank Redemption for example.
And even if they’re classic movies I want them to see, my children will NOT be watching them until they are at least 16 (I saw Patriot at 13 and it was a bit much; also someone brought their 3 little children -ages 5 to 10- to the theater when I was seeing Lord of the Rings and they were screaming through most of it because of the Orcs and the fighting).
So yes I’ll be a bit hypocritical but I want them not to be desensitized.
Jenna, way to go for being a critical thinker about these things! And keep monitoring the language…trust me that will creep in if you’re not very careful.
My parents had one of those DVD players that let you beep out the language and set up children’s limits (if you watched something over a rating then it required a passcode…good for today’s kids who can use the tv and computer before preschool)…if you think that T1 can put in a DVD buy it…it’s worth it for the peace of mind.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Than you Katie, this is very kind. I do try to be deliberate in my choices.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:28 am
Watch Saving Private Ryan for sure. It is a wonderful example of everything a great movie should be. Raw, real, intense and emotionally moving.
I agree with those above that recommend Shawshank Redemption as well. I only saw it two years ago (my husband was stunned that I had never watched it) and I thought it was an excellent movie.
Though many forms of entertainment are over the top in the way they use language, nudity and violence, I look at some of these movies differently upon viewing them because they make an impact on my life. Good Will Hunting is one of my favorite movies ever. I just love the message and the story is so beautifully told. The language is a bit rough but it is being used as a part of the characters lives and not so much for the sake of being crude.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:35 am
Don’t bother with Ides of March. My husband and I went to see it and I found it deeply disturbing, and not in a good, critical thinking kind of way. It’s very disturbing, both sexually and morally. I walked away from it and I desperately wished I’d never seen it. The use of profanity in it is also gratuitous and really kind of disgusting.
Have you seen Braveheart or is that rated R? Because that one is excellent and I also would say you should definitely watch Shawshank.
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Jen Allyson Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:36 pm
Braveheart is an amazing movie. Very heart-wrenching. Speaking of epic movies – I finally saw Legends of the Fall and I could not believe I had never seen it before. Such an epic film. There is a gratuitous sex scene (pertinent to the plot) that I recommend you fast forward through, but really it is worth a watch. I just sat and balled when I watched it. After seeing it, I also understood why so many women like Brad Pitt
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:41 am
Shawshank Redemption was the very first movie that came to mind. Seriously, it’s amazing.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:48 am
I’d recommend ‘The Thin Red Line’ by Terrence Malick. I loved this movie, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. It’s not plot driven and is instead a meditative take on the the nature of war and human nature itself. It’s beautifully shot, so you might enjoy it for that alone, since you’re a photographer.
‘A Very Long Engagement’ is a beautiful movie, by the director of Amelie and also starring Audrey Tautou. It’s a love story, mystery and war movie all rolled into one. Honestly, it’s one of the best love stories I’ve seen in a while. You didn’t say if you’re opposed to movies with sub-titles, but since this is a french movie, sub-titles would be needed.
Don’t forget about classics like ‘The Godfather’!
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
Yes! The Godfather is incredibly. Definitely mine the AFI Top 100 films list. There are so many wonderful movies there.
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Danielle Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Those recs are excellent. Terrence Malick is an incredible director. Jeunet is great as well (director of A very long engagement).
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:48 am
I’m excited to hear your experiences watching some new movies. I’ve been watching R-rated things since I was 3 years old, so I’m pretty desensitized these days. The movie has to be extremely dark to shake me. (But those are my favorite kinds of movies!)
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Nodakademic Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:17 am
Haha, me too Rachel. Me too.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:51 am
I could say a bunch of things but it basically boils down to this: THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. I agree with Katy above, who talked about the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. Watching some guy do cringe-worthy stuff with baked goods in American Pie is a completely different viewing experience from watching Brokeback Mountain, which will make you think (and make you cry). Maybe Brokeback Mountain isn’t quite what you had in mind but you get the idea. As for other film suggestions, take a look at what’s won best picture for the past few years. You have a lot of catching up to do!
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Lydia Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:12 am
Brokeback Mountain is seriously one of my favorite movies. I hate that there are so many tasteless jokes about such a beautiful love story.
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phruphru Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
THANK YOU. Exactly. It’s a love story. My husband even cried during it.
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Rachel Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:34 am
Agreed! Brokeback Mountain is an incredible, beautiful story.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:51 am
Some of my favorite R movies – Gladiator, The Kings Speech, Braveheart, The Pianist, The Green Mile, The Patriot, A Few Good Men, Saving Private Ryan, Jerry Maguire
I actually don’t think I’ve seen Schindler’s List all the way through OR Shawshank Redemption.
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Kat Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Goodness me the King’s Speech is rated R in the US? I assume R is for restricted? What age is that restricted to?
I LOVED the King’s Speech. I guess the R is for the language, but it’s all in a therapeutic setting (he doesn’t stutter when swearing).
I’d also add, obviously everyone is different, but I haven’t found at all that watching/hearing bad language makes me use it. The type of language I use changes based on who I’m with but the use of any “bad” words has never been so much of a habit that I can’t control where I use it (I never swear in front of children or at work for example).
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Erin J Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Yeah, it’s kind of ridiculous! R is restricted to ages 17 & up.
I am also not one that uses bad language, except in the case of this morning when someone almost rear-ended me!
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kayakgirl73 Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 7:23 am
This a great movie about overcoming a disability. I loved it.
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Logan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
‘The Kings Speech’ is AMAZING.
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Hannah Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I too loved The Kings Speech. And I agree with Kat – yes there is a lot of profanity, but it wasn’t truly directed at anyone or used in a mean/hurtful way. As Kat said, he used it as part of his speech therapy. But then again, I watch movies with profanity in them more often than not, so maybe I don’t notice it as much.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:51 am
The Fall. I just watched it about a month ago.
A beautiful-in-every-way movie.
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:03 am
YES!!!!!!!! I have yet to talk to someone that has seen that movie!!! Seriously, that just made my day.
I really, really enjoyed that movie. It was a bit different, such visually stimulating scenery(added by Lee Pace…I admit I’m a fan of him;), and a wonderful, interesting story. Is that little Romanian girl not the best little actress? It’s like she not even acting. Loved her.
Seeing as I normally don’t see R rated films I was fascinated as I watched it and found that I had no idea why it was really rated R. There is some violence, but it didn’t strike me at all as anything more intense than your typical PG13. The only thing I can think of is because of the theme involving death and manipulation.
But I loved it. Always reccommend it to people that enjoy a movie that is just a tad different, but still relatable and enjoyable to watch.
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Erin J Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:37 am
I have never heard of this movie, but I loved Lee Pace when he was on Pushing Daisies so I am going to add it to my movie list!
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am
Lee Pace will also have a small(ish) role in the last Twilight movie, Breaking Dawn Part 2. I know this because I’m one of “those” people
My name is Katy and I’m a huge, (somewhat) unabashed Twilight fan. The side of me that never aged past 16 rears it’s head sometimes thanks to these books. I’m quite excited to see Rob *and* Lee Pace in one movie. That will be a nice little treat for the eyes.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:57 am
Have you seen The Notebook? It’s an incredibly romantic movie about true love. I cried my eyes out the first time I saw it. Please see it! It’s soooo good. There is one (very short)love making scene (you can’t really see anything, but it is suggested).
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:00 am
Some of my very favorite thought-provoking movies (not sure about their ratings one way or the other):
–The Seven Samurai (Japanese action movie by the great director Kurosawa; incredibly entertaining and has some profound things to say about duty, social class and the role of violence)
–City of God (2002 Brazilian movie about gang wars and the growth of organized crimes in the favelas: really interesting and authentic; only one professional actor in the cast, the rest were from favelas)
–Day of Wrath, Danish (1943 Danish drama about sin (of the sexual variety and otherwise), witchcraft and religious persecution. Mentally intense but fascinating.)
–Alien and Aliens (probably the best science fiction movies I’ve seen, and I’ve seen a lot. Not for the faint-hearted, but they have a lot of interesting things to say about femininity, among other topics)
The Shawshank Redemption is pretty good too (a little sentimental for my taste). So are Saving Private Ryan and Schlinder’s List, actually: Spielberg is a great filmmaker, but also very cheesy.
I liked Brokeback Mountain a lot, but it does have a couple sex scenes (they are not very erotic though). Really interesting depiction of the costs of being closeted (and beautifully shot).
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Lea Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:47 am
City of God is a good movie. But forewarned: there is A LOT of violence in it, including violence against children, and it is incredibly tough to watch.
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am
A good front runner to City of God is a documentary called Noticias de uma guerra particular (in English it’s called News from a personal war). City of God is hard to watch for many reasons, but Noticias does an excellent job of looking at all aspects of the drug problem in Rio, something that City of God doesn’t fully address. As for the violence against children it is horrific to watch, but sadly a reality. There are many academic papers which deal with the Criancas de Rua (Street Children) and the social disconnect they face, which often leads to violence against them sometimes resulting in death. Jenna I applaud your take on things, I came to this same realization years ago and have seen many eye-opening films because of it!
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phruphru Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
Children of God is bone chilling but you’re right, Kristin, it’s probably all too familiar a reality for street children. I’m going to add that documentary to my list. Speaking of street children, another recommend is Children Underground http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264476/ It’s about children living in a train station in Romania. I watched it several years ago and still think about it and shudder at some of the scenes.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:05 am
The King’s Speech was a lovely film. Saving Private Ryan is good, however you might consider watching Band of Brothers….it is fantastic. Also, they often air it as a marathon on AMC and other cable channels, I think with the profanity eliminated. But excellent from a historical perspective and understanding war.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:07 am
I read an interesting comment from the SixSeeds magazine regarding Christians watching media:
“When you watch a movie, take in a TV show, or listen to a song, you are not condoning, assenting, agreeing, or endorsing. You are listening.”
– Rebecca Cusey of TinselTalk at Patheos, in her latest piece on Christians and entertainment
I think this is a healthy opinion. It’s easy to get caught up in an isolated bubble. You can learn a lot of things from unconventional places. I had a great conversation with my husband over manipulative, controlling relationships after watching Paranormal Activity.
I’d recommend Life as a House. There’s no nudity (though there is sex, you just don’t have to see the details), minimal cussing, and overall it’s a beautiful film. It’s about a father who finds out his cancer is terminal, and his decision to spend his last summer building his dream house with his disaffected teenage son. So beautiful and moving. You will cry, I guarantee it!
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:53 pm
This is a really lovely sentiment, thanks for sharing. I also have had some really engaging conversations with my husband due to reading/viewing/listening to unconventional things.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:20 am
I’ll second the Life as a House recommendation (the sex scenes are minimal).
And I’ll be the 18th person to endorse Shawshank.
If you want to open your mind to world views (while seeing a well made movie) I highly recommend Hotel Rwanda (hmm… was that R or just pg13? Not sure.
With regards to the swearing, I might start out more lenient with that (because I think we get that from people, not from movies), and if you drop something and then swear – no more swearing movies! But I think you might miss out on some really poignant moments of good movies if you either skip the movie or get a editing device.
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Rachel Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 10:19 am
I have to say, I didn’t think that hearing swears in movies/TV affected my own speech, until I started watching Dexter. LOVE that show, but Deb (his sister) swears so much, I found myself swearing more, too!
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:29 am
I have a very similar standard as you do. I don’t care about the rating – I won’t watch many PG-13 movies if I don’t think they have any redemptive qualities. But a movie like Braveheart, which is full of war violence, is so inspiring and tells such a story of sacrifice and redemption, is on my list of favorites.
You are right about what you said regarding violence, though – I can’t stand movies that glorify it (horror) or use it gratuitously (i.e. Wanted, Drive).
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:33 am
same here – we watch movies based on the content. If we mis-judge, we turn it off and are more careful the next time. That’s not for everyone of course (Mormon-wise) but it works for us.
In fact, we just had a discussion about that very same thing after watching The Kind’s Speech the other night. It was such a delightful, well-done movie and I was sad it had a rating that would keep some from watching it. The rating was R because of two little scenes where they say “F…” a few times. And the way that use it is actually funny, not crude, if there is such a thing.
Anyway… I definitely recommend that movie – it’s heartwarming and I think you’d enjoy it.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:39 am
ps -after reading other’s comments, I wanted to agree with the Shawshank recommendation but add a caviat: it’s about prison life (in the 30s I believe) so it’s not touchy feely, it’s more hard core, but it’s an excellent movie. Just know that going into it. The Green Mile is also an excellent movie – thoroughly enjoyed that one. The Gladiator – hands down, incredible movie and Russell Crowe was awesome. A Few Good Men – lots of language in parts but a brilliant classic (you can catch that on TV a lot so you can get the watered down version if you prefer). I’m sure there are others and they’ll come to me later.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:51 am
Master and Commander!! It’s just a great movie all around. The historical details are excellent if you are into that
Well I just looked and it’s PG-13, so you might already have seen it. If not, do!
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:52 am
I still have a policy of no rated R movies and apply judgement when it comes to other ratings. I think there are very few “life-changing” movies out there that are rated R that I am missing out on. I have made the exception three times: Billy Elliot (swearing scene), I capture the castle (brief front nude scene of woman), and The King’s Speech (swearing scene). All of these viewings came after the suggestions of friends who knew what my standards were. All of them were rating R ONLY for those mentioned scenes which were easy enough to block out or fast forward. Other movies I have caught once they were on TV. I think you just need to come to a decision as a family what you feel good about, which is what you are working on.
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Erin J Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:59 am
They did release a PG-13 version of the King’s Speech in theaters, but I do not know if they actually released that version on DVD, but the swearing scene is one of my favorite scenes in the movie.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:53 am
This is going to sound like I have a thing for Mel Gibson, but I just absolutely love these movies. The Patriot and We Were Soldiers.
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:08 pm
We were soldiers is amazing! I love that they focus on the wives at home, as well. My father in law only watched it once, though… It was so real that it gave him flashbacks in the middle of the night!
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Meghan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
It’s so good. It’s been one of my favorites for years.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:56 am
The part that I dislike is (being LDS) is that you have said “not to worry about what is said in the Strength of Youth pamphlet.” If you are in Young Womens and your kids ask you about this, how do you rationalize given that the Strength of Youth pamphlet is considered a “work” of the church? Do you tell them to pick and choose what they want to follow and where do you draw the line?
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
If that ever happens (I would love to be in YW for sure) I would work to respect what parents want for their own children. I can raise my own children how I please.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
I don’t think we can live a double standard. if we are asked to teach the youth of our church as in YW we need to be living the exact same standards. Heavenly Father didn’t get baptized because he needed to, he did it to e an example to us. don’t you think we should be the example for the youth of our church? And i know it doesn’t say specifically rated R movies. BUT movies get that rating because of violence, sexuality, and language. all of which we are asked not to partake of.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
p.s. oops i meant to write Christ getting baptized not Heavenly Father.
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Sharon Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 12:39 pm
The primary reason I don’t go to R-rated movies is to set an example for my kids. They choose what they want when they are adults, but I have to set a standard somewhere. That goes for other ratings as well. (I’m pretty picky.) For me, it’s important to take a stand on some things that are just not within my tolerance level.
I did see Schindler’s List when it was presented on TV, and if my kids were old enough to handle the subject matter at the time, I would have let them watch it also. Also, I’m more sensitive to seriously bad language or sex than I am to violence.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:03 am
Do you watch a lot of documentaries? I would recommend those for you. Obviously most are liberal leaning, but I think they are still very informative!
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
I *love* documentaries. Documentaries and non-fiction books are my favorites.
Now I’m branching out into some NR stuff that I might have avoided before.
Two recent favorites are Pray the Devil Back to Hell and Inside North Korea. If you haven’t seen them, do!
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:32 pm
I loved Pray the Devil Back to Hell! I watched it at a screening that was held as part of the Womens Studies group at BYU, it is a wonderful documentary! There is another that deals with genocide/civil war called The Devil Came on Horseback regarding Darfur. I have been watching it slowly in pieces because it affects me so much, it is eye opening but a difficult one to sit through.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:06 am
The Shawshank Redemption, The King’s Speech, Brokeback Mountain,and The Ides of March are all ones i would recommend.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:06 am
I don’t think there is any rated R movie out there that is going to be that educational that you have to go against what the prophet has asked us to do. You can educate yourself in others ways then movies. I hope people understand that he LDS standard is black and white on this. Our prophet, that we have sustained and that we whole heartedly believe to be God’s mouthpiece here on earth (and if you didn’t believe that you wouldn’t be a part of the LDS church) has plain and simply asked us to not watch rated R movies and use our best judgement and dissernement on other rated movies. because yes even pg-13 movies should not be watched. sometimes we are asked to do things just to be tested in seeing if we are willing to obey.
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Sophia Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:22 am
“sometimes we are asked to do things just to be tested in seeing if we are willing to obey.” I really, really disagree with this notion of God. That he sets up expectations as little ways of almost tricking us- “hey guys, this isn’t even important, really, I’m just saying it to see if you’ll do what I say- kinda petty, yeah, but I’m God, so you do what I say or else!”
I just find that to be a terribly narrow view of the way the creator of the universe, and all human life, would behave in relation to his children whom he supposedly loves. It seems so childish to me, a needless display of authority “just because I can.”
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
But isn’t Lisa saying (regardless of the statement you don’t agree with) that the Prophet, a person the LDS are supposed to view as the mouth piece of God, has said not to watch Rated R movies. So they shouldn’t do it? Period.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Yes Meg the prophet has asked us very specifically not to see Rated R movies. And if God can’t trust us in obeying the small things, then what can he trust us with? If we aren’t listening to what our Heavenly Father wants us to hear then we are removing ourselves and getting farther and farther away from his spirit. it’s like you can only invite someone to do something with you until you no longer want to invite because they always so no. I’m not saying heavenly father will remove the holy ghost completely but the Holy Ghost will no longer be our CONSTANT companions in guiding us to the right thing if we aren’t willing to listen. Maybe this doesn’t make sense…? also I’m not saying Heavenly Father does things just because he can, but he wants us to obey and this life is a life to be tested and a chance to see if we will obey even when we may not understand the meaning behind it. so maybe we don’t always understand why we can’t watch rated R movies but sometimes it is ok not to understand everything right now. that is where faith comes in and we simply do it because we were asked to do but a person we believe to be ordained of god. We believe our Prophet speaks what God wants us to hear.
p.s. sorry I used Heavenly Father and God interchangeably, they are the same person. In the LDS church we refer to God as our Heavenly Father. and the spirit as the Holy Ghost.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Like others, I’d definitely like to see your citation on this one. It is no longer even a church standard.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:02 pm
I agree with you in theory, if God commands something specific, it needs to be obeyed… but I don’t believe God commanded us to not watch movies that are rated R in a country that frankly has an imperfect ratings system (no country does). Firstly, because I havent heard anyone in authority say so, and besides that, it doesn’t make sense that our righteousness would depend on what a secular board decides in terms of what to rate each movie, and I certainly don’t believe God would be fine with me watching a crude teen movie that managed a PG rating, because the higher law was to not watch R rated movies.
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Agreed! You made a good point about a “secular board”.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
Thanks
I think it is silly for an American to put their moral media consumptions into the hands of their own regulatory board, let alone for a foreigner who places no confidence in another country’s government to put any stock in their ratings!
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Danielle Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
Amen, to that Sophia.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
Could you clarify which prophet and where in some form of canonised text it says no R rated movies? I know this is a big thing in the US, but the church has a huge international membership and do you think anyone preaches about avoiding R rated movies outside the US? Of course not. We keep ourselves morally clean by knowing what is right and wrong to view and we use our noggins to make judgement. I have to laugh and roll my eyes anytime someone freaks out about R rated movies as absolute doctrine because here in Australia, there are two ratings between PG and R. I have to use my own judgement and sometimes ill deem a movie appropriate to watch which turns out to be rated R in the US. The one time I ever heard someone specifically mention R rated movies in church, I laughed, because here, an R rated movie is usually no less than a slasher porno chainsaw massacre, so its like, duh, of course a Mormon wouldn’t see that in good conscience. So really… I think the R rated thing in the church is (pardon the pun) very overrated, probably pushing it in terms of whether it is actual ‘doctrine’, and really not the spiritual life and death matter some make it out to be.
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
I agree. I think there was one quote from Benson that everyone “goes to” from his talk in April conference of 1986. My husband and I have said that the second it is part of a temple recommend interview and it is official “policy,” so to speak (like drinking alcohol, smoking, etc.), we will stop. There are specifics commandments, then there are things that are left up to us, and we decide together what is appropraite, what we can learn from, etc.
For example, The Word of Wisdom says a lot about what we should do, in addition to what we shouldn’t. However, eating meat everyday for two meals a day (as an example) isn’t really going to keep someone from the temple, at least not that I know of. Same thing with keeping the Sabbath Day Holy. We have to decide what is acceptable for our family on Sundays through the guidance of the Spirit. I think entertainment is the similar.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Oh, rats! Maybe it’s the Benson one that I’m thinking of.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Yup. It’s Benson: http://lds.org/ensign/1986/05/to-the-youth-of-the-noble-birthright?lang=eng&query=r-rated+benson
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Definitely. We certainly have a tendency within the church to fill in any blanks with speculation, and eventually it can be confused with actual doctrine.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:50 pm
Yeah, I’m sorry. I’ve had this argument with my mother-in-law multiple times. The only place she could ever find a prophet saying it was President Kimball to the young men in 1985. It has become more of a cultural movement than anything else to choose not to watch R-rated movies. In fact, the new ‘For the Strength of Youth’ manual no longer contains the wording about R-rated movies (you can see it here: https://lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth/entertainment-and-media?lang=eng).
The MPAA ratings are applicable only for the United States. Ratings are done on a country-by-country basis and are, to be perfectly honest, quite arbitrary.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Editorial error: President Benson to the Young Men in 1986: http://lds.org/ensign/1986/05/to-the-youth-of-the-noble-birthright?lang=eng&query=r-rated+benson
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Megan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
I have to agree with Tiffany on this. There are multiple references that say to NOT watch rated R movies. I would refer you to this site http://www.ldsfriends.com/the-counsel-against-rated-r-movies/ that highlight the references.
This is a matter of faith. We have been asked not to by people we sustain in the church. There are a few things that I can follow 100% and know that I am doing so. This is one of those issues.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I’m sorry, but even those references don’t make this a church doctrine or even a standard. The references are outdated and the ‘R-rated movies’ stipulation has been removed from official church publications (ie, documents signed by the First Presidency) such as For the Strength of Youth.
Just because something was said in General Conference doesn’t automatically make it doctrine. Unless it is voted in at a conference or presented by the first presidency, it’s policy at the most (but more likely cultural).
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Megan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
You are right. However, I think if the references are outdated (saying not to watch r rated movies) how much more so does that apply to today when movies have even more content in them that wasn’t allowed back then?
Maybe I could find a quote on this but don’t we believe general conference is modern day scripture? So if someone mentions this in conference doesn’t that mean we should follow it?
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:49 pm
I actually don’t think it does. I think that a lot of opinions get shared in general conference. I can think of at least one specific example where an opinion has been revised or removed before the conference talk even went to publication.
I think that ratings in general are arbitrary. As mentioned above, ratings are set by a secular group (that often is unduly influenced by studios). I don’t want them telling me what to do.
No, I’m not going to advocate that everyone should watch every movie that has ever been made. I just think that an arbitrary letter shouldn’t prevent me from seeing a life-changing movie like Schindler’s List.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
You’re right that if US R movies were bad 4 decades ago, they’re full of more smut now. So by choosing movies based on morals before ratings, I would not be surprised to see that most R rated movies would be found inappropriate, but also a lot of PG movies too. But, this ‘commandment’ is actually outdated in that it has been superceded by later omissions of the no-R-movies mandate, replaced by guidelines on specific immoral aspects of media to be avoided.
Also, you are right that general conference is doctrine (techinically, the conference report – not to be confused with the conference edition of the Ensign – is the ‘doctrinal’ publication that comes from general conference, and yes corrections can be made between conference itself and publication), but there are two very important elements to discerning doctrine – is it official doctrine, taken from an official doctrinal source (stuff canonised and signed by the first presidency), and is it current. There is plenty of stuff that made it to the conference report and even into the standard works that has later been made redundant by more contemporary revelation, often calls to live higher versions of a law. In this case, I have to say… if it ever made it to the conference report about R rated movies, sure, it could have been doctrine, but it has been later omitted and superceded. So, at best I deem this was doctrinal once, but now is no longer current, and has been replaced by a much better doctrine.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
“We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterward. Don’t see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic. Don’t listen to music that is degrading” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1986, p. 58; or Ensign, May 1986, p. 45). President Benson
Even though it was stated in 1986 doesn’t mean it doesn’t still apply…don’t you apply your scriptures to your life? Also I found this quote in a question answer period about the changes in the for strength of youth pampthlet by a general authority,
“This is not to be interpreted that the Church approves of R-rated or any other inappropriate movies.” I think the reason they got away from stating a specific R rating is because most pg-13 movies should be rated R so if anything we should get farther away from rated R movies then closer to them. and yes also because outside of the U.S. the system is different. But like i said it should make us stay even further away not start watching them.
But what I think really made me go “hmmm” was this phrase Jenna said, “What is dramatic is that I’ve decided not to worry about what is said in the Strength of Youth pamphlet when I choose what to watch.” The strength of youth applies to all of us not just the “youth” at this time. In a way we are still “youth” this pamphlet is put out by the LDS church and therefore crosses the desk of the prophet. He put the stamp of approval on it with lots of prayer and help from our Heavenly Father so he knew exactly how to counsel us in a way that our Heavenly Father sees fit. therefore I believe it is a pamphlet of standards Heavenly Father wants us to live by.
I’m not trying to judge Jenna or anyone else, I know people aren’t perfect. i just don’t want other people who don’t know much about the LDS faith to think that we can disregard what our prophets and leaders have been teaching us for so long. they want us to question and ask the lord ourselves if it is true. But in the LDS church some things are black and white. and no watching a rated R movie is not going to keep you from the temple. But it may lead to a path that could eventually keep you from it. for me it’s about obeying. We won’t be kept from the temple without reading our scriptures daily or saying our prayers daily but we have been asked to read them by our prophets and leaders, and in not reading and praying may start leading us down a path that will keep us from the House of the Lord.
this was stated in a general conference too.
“Now, brethren of the priesthood, there should not be any X- or R-rated movies that we participate in viewing or talking about.” H. Burke Peterson, general conference October 1980
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
I absolutely do use the scriptures to guide my life. I still don’t think that an R-rating should keep me from seeing a film that is clearly not “immoral, suggestive, or pornographic” such as The King’s Speech or Schindler’s List. I just don’t. I don’t judge you for not having seen them and I feel perfectly comfortable attending my Sunday meetings and the temple despite having seen these and other R-rated movies.
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megan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
“What difference does it make why it is rated R? The fact is, a prophet of God has said not to go to R-rated movies. That ought to be enough” (Ensign, July 1998, 16). —Elder Cree-L Kofford of the Seventy
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megan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:07 pm
This is my take on it.
There will always be this argument until the current prophet comes out and specifically says not to watch rated r movies.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree!
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
I’ll have to disagree too, based on the fact that since these original mandates to avoid R rated movies have been superceded by omissions of ratings guidelines and rather instruction on the morals that we take into account when we choose which media is appropriate to consume.
The prophet back in the 80s can say not to go to R rated movies, but that doesn’t do anyone a lot of good in any country other than the US. It is impractical, I follow Australian ratings, and sure, I could look up a US movie rating, but why would I base my viewing on another country’s rating system? I actually do not have the slightest regard for the US rating system, so it is very difficult for me to accept the idea that this is how God wants us to decide what is and isn’t okay.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I do not consider the quotes at the beginning and the end of your comment valid, because they have been superceded by conference talks that omit mention of ratings and instead instruct us on what types of media and certain immoral things that we should avoid. That is a higher law.
‘This is not to be interpreted that the church approves of R rated movies’. I do not think that the church DOES approve of R rated movies, nor do I expect it to, but it has removed its ‘mandate’, if it ever was one, to include specific ratings as the way by which we judge the appropriateness of a movie. Meaning… you interpret that to mean the church still says we must NOT watch R rated movies, and I interpret it to mean that the church has removed the mandate but not because R movies are okay after all, but simply because we should be using our own judgement to find out which movies are okay to watch or not… and more than likely, this will lead to people finding a lot of below-R-rating movies abhorrent and inappropriate. That, to me, is a higher law. Bar raised!
But if you’re right and we have a contemporary commandment to not watch movies, what do you expect the millions of Mormons all over the world to do with regards to following this ‘commandment’? Personally, I don’t place much stock in the moral abilities of the American ratings system. It means very little to me. I don’t know why American Mormons are willing to place their media morality in the hands of some secular board to decide which movies will edify them and which will wreck their souls. Do you think I’m a sinner because I deem a movie fair to watch based on Australian ratings and due diligence, but it might turn out that some group of people in America decided that it should be rated with the letter R, and therefore not considered fit for consumption by LDS brethren in the 70s and 80s? I don’t think so. I rest easy at night knowing I use my conscience and my noggin to inform decisions.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:39 pm
Well-said Hailey.
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megan Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Hailey, I really like your middle paragraph and the comment about the bar being raised/higher law. Very well said.
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Danielle Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
No. It’s for the youth. It’s in the title. You can use it as a guide for yourself if you want, but it is published for and addressed to adolescents. Saying otherwise is nonsense.
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Danielle Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
What’s more, if this is a “doctrine” why do film students at BYU watch R rated films as assigned by their professors?
Set a standard for yourself that you are comfortable with. But don’t apply your standard to anyone else, member or not. This is an area where one uses their agency to make a judgement call. There is no cut and dry directive from God.
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:54 pm
I agree that the LDS church asks us to look for things that are praiseworthy, of good report, etc. (think 13th article of faith). Lots of PG-13 movies don’t meet that requirement but lots of members rationalize that with “but it isn’t R” so it must be alright. There were people who mentioned not watching R-rated movies in their conference addresses in the 1980′s but don’t you find it curious that it hasn’t been mentioned in almost 30 years? Perhaps we are being asked, as others have already mentioned, to use the guidance of the Holy Ghost to know what is appropriate for us as individuals. Doesn’t that seem smarter? Jenna said in her post that sex-related scenes are something that she personally wants to stay away from, as well as language. I cannot take violence in movies, specifically torture, but maybe she can. It is really up to us on a case by case, individual basis, to decide what is appropriate for us. That being said, as far as it being doctrine to not watch R movies, I don’t think I would take it that far. I did my post-undergrad work at BYU in the College of Humanities and many of the movies we were asked to watch were R rated. City of God was one that was hard for me to watch, but it helped me understand more about life in Rio’s Favelas.(the movie is based on a fictional work by Paulo Lins, who was a social worker in the Favelas for years before writing the book). This was followed by Almost Brothers which explains how the drig trafficking came to be in Rio. Batismo de Sangue was another that was hard to watch, but helped me see the realities of the Brazilian Military Dictatorship and the role the Catholic Church played during those years. Domesticas is a satiric take on the socio-economic role of house help in Sao Paulo. These all would certainly have an R rating in the US, but were watched for classes at BYU. There are many films that are considered art and very worth the time because they expose us to things that are real human experiences that we would otherwise be unaware of. And just as with studio art (paintings, sculpture etc.) we personally need to know where we need to draw the line to keep the companionship of the spirit.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
Very well said, Kristin.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
i agree that people think well it isn’t rated R so it must be ok. Which is probably why they don’t specifically say that anymore. but I think if we are “raising the bar” we would say all R ratings are out and most pg-13 and pg and probably some g ones are out too. Also the Australian, i thought i read about that the rated R ones in austrialia are the really really bad ones. so again, they probably had people saying well it isn’t rated R so it is ok. it goes for everwhere. movies get R ratings due to violence, sexuality, and language, all of which we are asked not to partake in.
also even though the for strength of youth says youth in the title does not mean we disregard it. We are asked to teach the youth of our church and be an example for them. how are we to teach them the standards from this pamphlet if we are not living them ourselves? Christ was baptized not because he needed to be, but because he wanted us to follow his example. I think we need to be living the standards for the youth of our church and of our families.
also no i don’t think any of you are sinners. i’m human too, i am not perfect and make mistakes often! This is just my opinion on the matter. which i am also not perfect at. although i don’t watch rated r movies i have watched other rated movies that i should not have and regretted later.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:01 pm
I don’t really get this perspective of no R rated films, period. Ratings are different in every country (and in Canada different in every province) so that seems arbitrary.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
See, but I don’t see watching US R movies as a sin at all. I think watching movies with poor moral messages and scenes etc is a sin, and so by implication, watching a lot of the US R movies would be wrong. And yes in Australia R is a much higher rating, so I actually would never ever see an AUS R movie, because they are basically pornos. If I followed this so-called guideline and avoided only R movies in my country, id be seeing a lot of crap…. and no, we don’t use the rationale that ‘it isn’t R rated so its okay’, because we actually don’t preach anything related to ratings here, seeing as there is no current or relevant doctrine on the matter. We just use our brains and make good choices influenced by church standards and current revelations.
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Christiana Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 10:14 am
wait, so all the R-rated movie stuff has only been directed at men? So women can watch R-rated movies, but men can’t? The quotes you used are directed to Young Men and the brethren of the priesthood. I’m not LDS, so I am genuinely asking. I thought only men are given the priesthood, and since it seems specifically for men-how is it known that women are to follow that as well (since it seems LDS usually promote a “separate but equal” thing in regards to gender).
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Tiffany Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 5:24 pm
sorry I should have explained when it stated young men. This quote was given to the men in a preisthood meeting. so no women were present during the actual meeting. BUT it is meant for ALL members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We don’t have different standards for men as we do for Women. The For Strength of Youth Pamphlet is also for men and women. And you are right only men hold the Priesthood. But because of the context of where they were when they said this they used “young men.” But we all live by the same standards.
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HEB Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 11:13 am
I agree with Megan…my mom has always said that we never know what blessings we might be receiving just by not watching R-rated movies. I feel that if Jesus Christ were sitting in the living room with us, he would uphold the admonition to stay away from R rated movies, and for that matter, all movies that contaminate our minds. THis is not brain-washed thinking. Rather, it is a way to keep our minds spiritualy clean, like that of a child. I can not tell my children not to watch rated r material and watch it myself, for whatever reason. This is not something I have come to lightly. I used to watch them and felt the spirit slip away. I have not watched them for years now and I know that this is the right choice.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:07 am
A huge recommendation from me for ‘The Wire’. That series is the best thing I have ever seen on TV.
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FM Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 2:06 pm
The Wire is amazing, but you should be aware that there are some gratuitous very graphic sex/nude scenes (mostly in the early seasons) that you would probably want to fast forward through. They are really gratuitous, as in you won’t miss anything by not watching the scene so long as you get that the sex is happening, and I think the writers figured out it wasn’t necessary because they stopped including the graphic stuff. I hope this would not deter you from watching the series because it is a truly fascinating and thought-provoking series. There is also a lot of swearing because it is realistic.
Also, Breaking Bad and Six Feet Under are both brilliant, if you’re looking for tv series. Breaking Bad is on AMC so probably was already ok for you to watch. Six Feet Under has swearing and lots of “mature content” that would get it an R rating if it were a movie (graphic sexual content although don’t remember too many graphic sex scenes but more graphic issues, drug use, violence, swearing, etc.), but I don’t remember anything being gratuitous. These are all series that explore morality, mortality, love, relationships, etc. in really deep and interesting ways and really affect the way you think about the world and your own perspectives.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:08 am
I’d like to echo Billy Elliot and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
And… if you ever change your mind about “horror,” I think The Shining and Silence of the Lambs and A Clockwork Orange are incredible films.
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
Eternal Sunshine is amazing… And surprisingly romantic! Silence of the Lambs is my favorite movie, but I majored in CJ, so I will watch many things that other people find disturbing.
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Jackie Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Ditto. Love eternal sunshine.
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Rachel Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Another ditto for Eternal Sunshine. One of my favorite movies of all time!!
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:16 am
The ratings system is so subjective–I have seen PG movies I would have rated near R and R movies that I never could figure out how it got the rating…..
The Sweet Hereafter was good but it made me cry.
I saw Schindlers List in school, actually–heartbreaking but much of history is. I plan on showing it to my children when they are old enough because I think it is so important for them to understand what happened.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:19 am
Not a film but a sitcom, a BBC sitcom, about a Chruch of England priest who becomes the vicar of an inner-city London church. Not sure if its being shown on BBC America yet but well worth tracking down. Its called Rev and, despite the occasional use of the F word, will get you thinking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._(TV_series)
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:23 am
I forgot Brokeback Mountain. Honestly, I cannot see why it was rated R- the scenes between the two men are all implied, there is some language, yes, but all in all it is a beautiful and heartbreaking love story.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:22 pm
I would imagine it’s rated R because it covers homosexuality? With the current cultural ideas/beliefs about homosexuality throughout much of America that is what makes sense to me. Frustrating to think that a heterosexual love scene would not have garnered the same rating (purely speculation, but I feel it’s probably true).
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Nina Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
I’m a curious what you mean by “the current cultural ideas/beliefs about homosexuality throughout much of America” and how that would affect the film rating. Reviewing some internet references to Gallup polls pre-2005 (Brokeback Mountain’s release year) shows that even in 2003 more than 50% of Americans were accepting of homosexuality and approved equal rights for hetero and homosexuals. Your statement kind of sounds like the MPAA rated the film R because it deals with something controversial that some people consider a moral issue. My hope is the MPAA was just doing it’s job and rated the film R because it met the criteria, not because it was trying to police moral turpitude.
I know you haven’t seen the film (yet!), but there is more than just sex between two men. There’s sex between a married couple, there’s violence, and there’s swearing.
My guess (and hope) is that the film was rated R merely because there is sex, language, and violence that reaches the R threshold, not because it deals with homosexuality. I hope you watch it soon and can report back with your own thoughts!
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Shanna Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:56 am
I think Jenna has the right idea here. The MPAA isn’t very fair when it comes to ratings. If this is true (I haven’t done any fact checking whatsoever) Ryan Gosling was criticizing recently that a movie he was in received an R rating for showing a sex act performed on a woman where the same act performed on a man would have gotten PG-13. I think that was the gist of it. I can see the MPAA rating homosexual sex acts as R regardless of how explicit the scenes are.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:23 am
Ryan Gosling was correct and the doc This film is not yet rated addresses that very issue (and others). I vote you watch it Jenna and see how/if it adds anything to your current thinking on film.
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Nodakademic Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:59 pm
I agree, This Film Is Not Yet Rated is an excellent documentary about the MPAA and their non-standard rating scale.
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Sophia Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 7:42 pm
Agreed!
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Jax Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:15 pm
I agree with the idea that cultural ideas/beliefs affect ratings. The first R rated movie I saw was The Matrix (a movie I had been wanting to see for YEARS) because I learned that it was originally rated PG-13 but was changed to an R rating because of the Columbine shootings (there is a scene where the characters bring guns into a building in black trench coats). Granted, I’ve never seen proof that this information is more than a rumor or speculation, but it makes sense since there is much worse violence and language in a lot of PG-13 movies I’ve seen. I’ve never seen Brokeback Mountain so I have no idea if homosexuality is the reason for it’s rating, but I’m sure it was probably a factor.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:28 am
Hey, I interned for the director of Taxi to the Dark Side! It’s a must-watch. Also, I think I remember you said you didn’t like the book Fight Club, but I still have to recommend the movie. It’s got a bit of violence and sex but the message is just too important. Also, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and the Motorcycle Diaries!
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:36 am
The Pianist. This movie is phenomenal and really really moving.
Also fully endorse Shchindlers List
Pans Labyrinth
and the Green Mile
all are amazing!
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Mags Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:41 am
Yes, I was thinking the Pianist too. Also, Hotel Rwanda. Children of Men is an excellent film. I also really loved Slumdog Millionaire. I’m guessing Black Swan is probably out as a psycho-sexual thriller but it is REALLY good!
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a Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
I am not a crier at all, but I lost it with the pianist. it is heartbreaking, inspiring, poignant and moving. a must see!
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:53 am
You know the term rated R in an American term. I am English and our ratings in England are very different as the rest of the world. You will notice after President Kimball the Term Rated R has not been used by General authorities as I am sure people from other countries had no idea what that meant and when they did it had no relevance to them.
Also, you will find it’s the local leaders that talk about no rated R movies and personally I think it is silly not to watch a movie because of its rating. You should not watch a movie because it offends you in some way. I watch movies based on what I have read about it, recommendations, kids in mind and at the end of the day if I don’t like what I watch I simply turn it off.
When I attended BYU (I loved BYU) many people were horrified at the movies I had watched and would watch. I thought it was childish that someone so intelligent wouldn’t watch a movie because of it’s rating but will sit through a movie full of innuendos and filth because it was PG-13.
Some of the most powerful movies I have ever seem have been Rated R in America. Shchindlers list was part of our education in middle school and I have been changed by that movie. The last samurai and Gladiator are such a powerful movies. The passion of Christ increased my testimony in Jesus Christ in so many ways, I am forever grateful I saw it.
thanks for your thoughts!
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Katy Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
“I thought it was childish that someone so intelligent wouldn’t watch a movie because of it’s rating but will sit through a movie full of innuendos and filth because it was PG-13.”
Exactly. I think many of us (sometimes myself included!) have been willing to pat ourselves on the back for casting out R, but still fully embracing PG13 despite little difference between them and an R rating sometimes. (Sometimes we’re talking just one additional F word that seperates them) I don’t think that was the intent when Pres. Kimball advised on avoiding movies with questionable content to think as long as we are following the *exact* counsel everything else is totally okay.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
A giant AMEN from Australia! The R rated thing irks me because it seems to exclude or ignore the globalised aspect of the church, and nobody seems to notice that the R rating mandate is totally outdated. In a globalised, raising-the-bar time for the church, contemporary talks focus on values and standards rather than petty, globally irrelevant rules.
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Paula Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
My husband and I were in the same boat during college. We would get a lot of flack for our movie choices, we started to flaunt it. We made shirts for “the hellfire club” and put a big R on the front pocket. We just got sick of all the judgmental people!
Right before that, I was kicked out of my house because I used the TV to watch an R rated movie, and my roommate did not want her TV to be infected with sin or something. A girl at my husband’s house was very vocal about leaving during an R rated movie, but they found her later having sex with someone. I thought it was funny that she wouldn’t watch and R rated movie,m but she would live an R rated life, LOL! Ah college… So glad I am not there anymore!
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Jen Allyson Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:58 pm
what does the BYU co-ed do when someone brings beer to the party? Puts her shirt back on and leaves!
I love that joke and I went to BYU
But I do think that the idea that a sin that others can SEE is vilified far more than one that can be hidden.
regarding this particular discussion – I consider some great films art. I am an artist. As an adult (not a horny teen boy) I have no problem reconciling some nudity and language within an artform. And I am not going to keep myself from experiencing a beautiful creation because of an arbitrary rating system that would rate a movie like “american pie” with the same letter as a beautiful film like “braveheart”.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:54 am
I have a comment on the desensitization to foul language. I’m in your boat where I don’t swear or curse, but aside from church friends and family, I’m the only one in my circle who doesn’t. I’ve never purposefully limited the type of media that I consumed in order to avoid profanity (honestly, it’s never crossed my mind), and, let’s be honest, it’s hard to avoid the casual cursers out and about. Even though I feel like profanity is all around me, I’ve never been tempted to curse, nor have I ever accidentally slipped in anger or surprise. I just don’t like those types of words, so they don’t enter my mind, I guess. I’m not saying you should just let loose and watch all kinds of cuss-filled movies. It’s just that to me, you seem firm in your conviction to not use those types of words, so I think it will be harder for them to enter your vocabulary than you think.
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Andrea Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
I just wanted to +1 joyjoy’s comment, as this is the exact same thought that popped into my mind when I read this post.
I absolutely commend you for being brave enough to venture outside of your comfort zone and for having the courage to ask these questions.
On the topic of foul language, I guess I don’t fully understand how hearing other people swear translates to you swearing (whereas I do understand how pornographic images could change your thoughts about sex and intimacy).
I place zero limits on the media I watch and have watched a lot of things with a lot of foul language (The Sopranos, Californication, The Wire etc.), but I don’t swear. I don’t swear because I am possessed of freewill and therefore can choose not to swear. I guess I just wonder what kind of message the LDS church is sending to its members by basically saying that they (the members) cannot watch R rated movies, for example, because this will cause them to be be simply unable to quell the profanity that will thereafter spill unwillingly from their mouths.
This, to me, creates a relationship of distrust between the church and its members. It’s as though they are saying that you are somehow so flawed that you can’t even control what comes out of your mouth. It is very disconcerting to me, as an outsider looking in.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:36 pm
I think it’s more the idea that we should avoid morally turbid influences – out of sight, out of mind – rather than the idea that the LDS church acts as like a nanny for our minds. And actually, the idea that R rated movies are forbidden within the LDS church is actually outdated. These days instruction from church leaders regarding media would consist more of what specific things we avoid. Personally, based on my tastes, my upbringing, and of course what I have been influenced and taught to do at church, I avoid media with swearing, among many other things. It kind of gets in my head. Things we view stay with us. I don’t want images popping into my mind, but I also don’t want words popping into my mouth. I know that isn’t everyone’s experience, but I have found that my language and thoughts are as susceptible as each other when it comes to being influenced by media. That’s my take on it.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
Oops, I think I misread your last sentence. I don’t think the church encourages us to avoid bad influences because we are to fallible to control ourselves – the whole point of our religious discipline is to better ourselves. The attitude and intention is more along the lines of, if you just keep your life clean of influences you don’t want, you don’t have to worry about it. If a person is dedicated to not swearing, they aren’t going to do it in any environment. But if they listen to swearing a lot, they can become desensitised, and you don’t lose your ability to control so much as your desire to control. And then it becomes a choice. I don’t want swearing to appeal to me, nor does it currently, and so I don’t tolerate a lot of it in movies. Again, that’s just my experience, but I think it is also a somewhat of common experience.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
I guess I’m thinking more about… slamming my finger in something and swearing in front of the toddler. Or getting really, really angry at someone and calling them a b*tch. I have never done those things, and I attribute that in part because I have tried to avoid profanity (sort of, I’m certainly not perfect at it).
But maybe I’m attributing my lack of swearing incorrectly. Maybe it is in fact that I have excellent self-control (not the movies I avoided) and I should be proud and can go ahead and watch what I want? (I am half joking here, which you can’t tell from text
).
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Maybe I’ll test out your theory?
And I did want to note that I don’t think watching profanity laden movies would remove my self-control and profane words would just tumble out at will. I just worry that if I tested the waters, it might be difficult for me personally to go back again.
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Emmie Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
I swear way too much as do a lot of lawyers and I have found that my language is worse since I started at this new firm. I think you repeat what you hear, even subconsciously.
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Jen Allyson Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:01 pm
I hardly swear at all – aside from the occasional “damn!” which is hardly a swear word at all. I think constantly being around swearing – like middle and high school or a sweary office – has far more influence then the occasional movie. Not to mention that if you watch TV and any PG+ movies lately you’re getting nearly as much swearing as an R rated movie. I think you’re going to be just fine.
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:54 am
This is the topic I expected. I can’t wait for the other 3!
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Shaylene Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am
Oh and I will add my opinion. I do think that this is a personal choice for you and as long as you feel good about it I guess it works. I will not be following your lead on this one (for now at least) since it is just easier for me to just group out all R-rated movies. I just don’t want to spend the time researching and deciding if I think a movie is okay. My decision is based on laziness and I don’t feel like I am missing out on much anyway.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
I make plenty of decisions based on laziness, so I know how that goes, haha.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
Not even Passion of the Christ?
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Shaylene Carter Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
If you are asking if I feel like I am missing out on seeing Passion of The Christ, then I would have to say no. Maybe it is because I didn’t hear great things about it, but I don’t care much about seeing it.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
Yes that’s what I was wondering about but poorly communicating
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January 19th, 2012 on 12:04 pm
I’ve done the same thing with books (I’m Mormon). There are plenty of uplifting, thought-provoking, and even life changing books out there that have violence, sex, and profanity. My personal standard is to stay away from the profanity because I don’t like the way it gets stuck in my head. Sometimes I skip sex scenes. Nor do I read just any old book. On the whole, I find this to be a broadening experience just like you, Jenna.
I agree that the narrow view of blind obedience blinds one to the beauty of choosing to be selective about entertainment. As mentioned, there are plenty of TV shows, PG and PG-13 movies that are not uplifting in any way. I would argue that faithful Mormons should recognize the difference between the letter and spirit of the law. Of course this is a personal journey and not everyone will reach the same conclusions, and certainly not in the same time frame.
In conclusion, let’s not judge each other! Just seek for personal growth!
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January 19th, 2012 on 12:29 pm
Honest question, when listening to a movie/song/tv show that has a curse word bleeped out (For instance “You *bleep*ing idiot!” do you not fill in the curse word in your own mind? Does it really just float over your head?
Because when I hear things that are bleeped my brain automatically fills in the curse word.
Just curious how someone who doesn’t curse hears bleeped words.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:03 pm
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t. One more reason to try to avoid it I guess. I’m more worried about actions than thoughts though.
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January 19th, 2012 on 12:38 pm
Funny story: I borrowed Schindler’s List to watch because I’d never seen it before. It was a rainy afternoon so I popped the disc in. 90-ish minutes later it ended and I thought to myself “Well, that wasn’t so bad.” (Graphically speaking.) Turns out, it’s a TWO disc movie. I never did see the second half!
I do NOT recommend Passion of the Christ. I think it’s just violence for the sake of being shocking. I didn’t think it enriched my faith/understanding/life one teeny tiny bit. It was a disgusting display.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Violence for the sake of being shocking? Isn’t it supposed to be a realistic representation of what Jesus went through for you? Isn’t it the point that it’s hard to watch and is ‘a disgusting display’?
I am interested in how this movie is perceived by Christians (particularly fundamentalists) so if there are more POV out there please share!
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Sarah Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
Also, I think the fact that it was directed and produced by Mel Gibson speaks volumes. The guy is clearly off his rocker.
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:36 am
I have in fact not seen this movie nor am I religious, but as I said am interested in its mixed reception among Christians. The Mel Gibson aspect might explain a lot.
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Hannah Lundberg Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:47 pm
Mel Gibson is an anti-semitic, bigoted and hypocritical man, in addition to being completely off his rocker. Passion Of The Christ is a movie full of violence and historical misinformation. Its intent was less about accurately portraying Jesus’ crucifixion and more about perpetuating hatred toward the partied he deems responsible – namely the Jewish people.
Watch it, for the sake of viewing it, but don’t believe that you are someone seeing anything remotely historically accurate or even well-meaning.
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Kelly @ The Startup Wife Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:58 am
As a Christian, I had pretty mixed feelings about that movie. I regret watching it. If I had kids, I would never want them to see it (and I’m pretty anti-censorship in general and don’t plan to police what they watch all that much). I also found it deeply anti-Semitic (like how all the worst character in the movie were the most quintessentially “Jewish-looking,” and the good people/characters were super Caucasian-looking, which … come on).
It did I guess hit home for me the notion of Christ sacrificing his life and suffering, but what stood out for me more was the cruelty and the extreme brutality–to me the movie felt really unredemptive. It felt more like a showcase of absolutely sickening violence. Not that that doesn’t exist, obviously, because it does, and that is part of the story, and I think it’s important that art deal with that, but it just–I don’t know. I guess I think people can have powerful responses to the movie (horror at the suffering) and that’s definitely worth something, but I didn’t feel like the movie should take any credit for that because it just didn’t feel like a movie that was made from pure intentions. You know? I mean, if someone had some deep spiritual experience watching it then who am I to judge, but I think that’s more about the viewer than the movie itself. It felt like a movie made by someone who wanted to watch someone suffer for hours in unspeakable ways and someone who was fascinated by that suffering rather than horrified by it. At the time I knew basically nothing about Mel Gibson but walked away thinking, wow, the person who made this movie must have an incredibly disturbed mind. I felt incredibly sick afterwards and truly wish I’d never watched it. Would never recommend it to anyone. (Jenna, I vote you skip that one!!)
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:42 am
Thanks Kelly that was a fantastic explanation.
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Marissa C Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 1:42 pm
Though it was very violent, I’m not a Mel Gibson fan, and it’s not something I would watch “for fun” I think it is worth seeing one time as a Christian to really get a taste for what Jesus went through. I thought the movie was actually incredibly well done. I don’t like Mel Gibson as a person, but you cannot deny his talent as a director (see “Braveheart”)
I also think the anti-Semitic aspect was completely overblown. Many of the “movers and shakers” in Hollywood are Jewish and felt it was a threat before even seeing the movie. No one in their right mind blames the Jewish people for what happened to Jesus. Sure, there are some that do, but I said “in their right mind!”
And if you really think The Passion was just a vehicle for Mel Gibson to display his raging anti-Semitism, please explain to me why he chose a Jewish actress to play Mary?
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:00 pm
The King’s Speech is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
I didn’t even realize that The Shawshank Redemption was rated R. Been recommending that one to everyone for years. Oopsies….
I think my perspective was changed dramatically when I started spending time outside of the US. As others have mentioned the relationship between movies rated as for adults between countries is completely arbitrary. Pan’s Labyrinth did not receive such a stringent rating in Spain as it did in the US.
Like you plan to do, I research the movies I want to see. If it’s rated R for certain elements that I can’t tolerate for whatever reason (violence against children is just unbearable for me), I don’t see it. If, for example, it’s rated R for language (like The King’s Speech), I do a little more research.
That being said, I confess that I have a weak spot for raunchy comedies. I’m working on it.
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:22 pm
I hope you don’t lose too much sleep over this one, because as you probably know now, doctrinally the R rated thing is outdated and irrelevant
but its awesome that you had this ‘awakening’, because I know most American Mormons grow up having this idea ingrained into them by well meaning parents and leaders, so it is a big deal and really admirable (not to mention courageous) that you were able say ‘haaaang on a minute…’ about this one, when probably a lot of people say you’re wrong. Enjoy your viewing, I can’t make any recommendations because even though I’m a lifelong member of the church, in Australia I have never been taught or abided by the ‘doctrine’ of not watching US-rated R movies, so though I am sure I must’ve seen a lot of US R movies, I have no idea which ones they are…. oh, but you mentioned The Ides Of March, I started watching that but turned it off because there was enough profanity near the beginning that it bugged me and I lost interest.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Amen. Amen. Amen.
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:34 pm
Others have already said it, but Shawshank Redemption. DEFINITELY watch that. Amazing movie.
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:43 pm
I think this is an amazing and wonderful post. I don’t think that thinking about things critically and changing one’s perspective as one grows up is a thing to be criticized, but a thing to be applauded. It means we are always questioning, searching for truth, figuring it out. I’m sure we all make mistakes as we go along, and might change our minds again. To steadfastly deny change because of fear seems a more dangerous path. I like the way you’re thinking!
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:47 pm
schindlers list, the passion.., and shawshank..yes, yes and yes!
Also, have you seen Band of Brothers? I know it’s not technically a movie. It was a miniseries on HBO, but with the violence and language I figure you might not have seen it. It’s def. a good show to watch. It really gives you an idea of what the soldiers went through. Plus, they have interviews with some of the real members of easy company and I have to tell you…it really gets to you. I can’t pass up watching it if I know it’s going to be on.
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Senora H-B Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
YES
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:52 pm
I second The King’s Speech, and I also really liked The Reader. The Reader has some nudity and sexuality, but I thought the moral issues it explored were fascinating. Ditto Sophie’s Choice. Spike Lee movies like Do the Right Thing are smart/interesting and often R-rated. Murderball is a documentary rated R for profanity and some sexual content, but it changed the way I thought about people with disabilities. I found American History X gut-wrenchingly hard to watch, but moving and powerful. There are scads of films that portray ugly, violent, gritty realities of war-torn third world countries (Hotel Rwanda, Maria Full of Grace), and those are rated R basically across the board, but often are eye-opening. Happy watching!
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Piper Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:09 am
I second The Reader. It is one of those movies you mull over for a long time after watching.
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January 19th, 2012 on 1:58 pm
What did you think of Amelie?
One of my husband’s and my favorite films is The Lives of Others. It’s a fantastic German film about the censorship and surveillance of writers/artists during the 1980s. It won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film.
I also second (third? fourth?) Pan’s Labyrinth, although it can definitely be difficult to watch because of the violence.
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Jo(ke) Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Yes! The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen) is an amazing movie!
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:02 pm
The Lives of Others is wonderful! I agree it should be on your must see list, Jenna!
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:18 pm
You know? I didn’t like it, which is weird because everyone RAVES about it. I think I need to watch Amelie unedited because maybe I was missing something by letting someone else control what was in it. I had really high expectations though.
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January 19th, 2012 on 2:11 pm
The truth is we don’t live in a PG-13 world. We live in an R rated world. To me, the idea that not watching rated R movies improves one’s morality is illogical. What about a Mormon soldier who goes to war? Is it immoral for him to watch an IUD go off? Would it be immoral for his mother to watch Saving Private Ryan to catch a tiny glimpse about what his life was like? What about the times when we’ve dealt with murderers and rapists at my job? Was it immoral of me to watch a man who was going through withdraws seize on our floor? No. Is that something that would have made it into a PG-13 movie? Probably not.
The idea that R movies is immoral is based on the premise that watching movies is solely for hedonistic entertainment. If you are watching a violent or sexual movie just because you ‘get off’ on that kind of thing, then sure that’s not the purist intention. But film is an art form. It is used to describe the human experience, and the human experience isn’t always PG-13. It opens our eyes to different worlds, experiences, truths. Pretending like drug users, prostitutes, war, genocide, murder doesn’t exist doesn’t make us holier – it ignores the reality that many people experience.
I have never restricted myself from watching certain kinds of movies, (though there are some I just don’t enjoy – horror, for example) and I don’t feel like they influence me negatively. I have never had a sex scene from a movie pop into my mind while I’m with my husband or feel like I’m more likely to curse after watching a movie. I’m not saying that logic is bad or anything, I respect you taking that concern, but I just want to say from my experience it’s probably not something you have to worry about.
I would recommend Enemy at the Gates – haunting though I couldn’t sleep that night. Actually that’s why I don’t watch many depressing movies (I’ve never seen Schindler’s List or Precious because of that reason!). Brokeback Mountain is also good – like I implied above, it’s not going to turn you into a gay cowboy obviously, but it can help you understand what that would have been like. And I believe God encourages understanding. Amelie is wonderful. There are 2 or 3 campy sex scenes, but they are definitely not “sexy” (but not campy in a disrespectful way – really I have no idea why that’s R. You should definitely watch it). Fracture is also a great suspense/legal thriller.
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Jackie Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Also I think that R is based more on whether something is appropriate for children rather than whether it is immoral or not. And don’t some movies try to get an R rating so that they have better sales?
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Emmie Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
I think R rated movies get less sales…but I am not 100 percent sure.
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Hailey Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
It is my understanding that any comment from the LDS church regarding media consumption (btw, the R rated thing is actually quite outdated and obviously not something a foreigner like myself can relate to!) has been to protect against worldly attitudes, rather than to promote ignorance… though ignorance can be a byproduct sometimes, but not intended. As you say, it is not immoral to watch facts of life, like touching and poignant aspects of history and humanity. But, it messes with your head if you see a lot of gore and violence… you don’t want to become desensitised to a point where you think, meh, violence, whatever, or worse, ‘give me more’. That can happen to some people. Also, a lot of movies these days portray some morally turbid ideas. It is one thing to know that many people have sex outside of marriage, but say hey, I’m not going to do that personally due to my beliefs, but it is another matter to consume a lot of media that sends positive messages about immoral things. A lot of movies, music, and music videos seem to endorse the idea that women are placed on the earth to be skinny and to sexually pleasure men. I stand behind anyone, in any religion or otherwise, who says, we should probably be avoiding this kind of filth. It is of no good to us to ingest these kinds of messages.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Hailey I loved this response!
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Melissa Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:53 am
This x1000! I have been reading through all the comments trying to figure out how to say what I am thinking but now I don’t have to because you did it perfectly!
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Jax Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
I love your first paragraph! My husband is a soldier and has urged me to see Green Zone (it’s on my list) because it helps provide insight for what this (or I guess I should say that now) war is/was like (albeit in Hollywood’s eyes). And it makes me grateful that there is a resource (movies) for me, as a military spouse, to understand just a little of what my husband will go through because of his job (my husband has yet to deploy) and what my friends’ husbands are going through right now. That kind of knowledge helps me to be even more of the spouse my husband needs me to be for him. And sadly, war will never be rated PG-13 if depicted anything close to accurately.
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January 19th, 2012 on 2:22 pm
I’d like to suggest Clint Eastwood’s Gran Torino. It’s a story about race relations and tolerance and that despite our “differences,” we’re all the same. I believe the R rating is for language and some violence but nothing gratuitous. And don’t worry – it’s not a western!
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Rachel Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:44 am
I love Gran Torino!! Excellent suggestion. Lots of opportunity for discussion with this film.
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:06 pm
Having read everyone’s suggestions for movies I’ve realised the US ‘R’ rating is very broad. In New Zealand we have M (for mature audiences) which covers several of these movies. You could possibly look at other countries ratings to get an idea of how “R” an R rated movie is.
I think it’s great you’re consciously thinking about what you watch. It does seem odd to me, as some have commented above, that LDS people would let a secular rating board decide what they watch – but it’s probably a pretty safe way to go, it seems that the American ratings are a lot more stringent than elsewhere.
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Emily Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
I thought the same thing, Kat. Im from Australia and saw alot of the movies on this list and thought it was ridiculous they were considered R!
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:14 pm
Definitely will one-thousandth Shawshank Redemption! I would also like to add Cold Mountain to the list. I’m really surprised no one has suggested Crash with Sandra Bullock yet–that is an excellent one on the topic of race/racism. I totally agree with going through the list of Academy Award’s Best Picture winners/nominees, as well as AFI’s Top 100 movies.
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:14 pm
Here’s the part I LOVE about your post: “…I want to look at the synopsis and the number of critics who liked it and think about what the movie means and how it could make me think.”
Awesome.
Also, Saving Private Ryan is a good movie but if you really want historical accuracy, I think the Band of Brothers series is way way way better! My husband and I snuggle in and watch our way through the series at least once a year. Yes, there’s violence but you come away (at least I did!) with a new appreciation for what war truly is, and of the sacrifices that our grandparents’ generation made for us. I like it because it makes me think.
Happy watching!!!
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:17 pm
I’m just going to throw this out there… Many people will probably disagree with me, but the HBO series “Rome” helped me understand the Bible a lot more. Some of the episodes are practially soft porn, but as far as actually depicting real Roman cultural issues (including rampant sexual sin), I think it’s as close a depiction as anything we’d ever see in this lifetime. I have such a better handle on the Roman empire, history as a whole, and how that relates to issues addressed in the New Testament.
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:31 pm
Not LDS, but grew up with parents who were very strictly anti-R rated movies. But, when I was a young teenager, my mother let me watch Schindler’s List and I don’t think that was a bad move on her part.
I watch R-rated movies now, but don’t necessarily pay attention to the ratings anymore. If it’s a horror movie, extremely violent or gory, though… I don’t watch it. I am highly sensitive to those things and end up having nightmares for weeks after!
I’m going to agree that King’s Speech was a really great movie, but again I don’t pay much attention to ratings so I couldn’t give any other recommendations… seems like lots of commenters did a great job on that so far though!
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:41 pm
I suggest movies like:
Malcolm X
Antwan Fisher
Ali
The Fighter
Cinderella Man
Sophie Shultz
American History X
Hotel Rwanda
God Grew Tired of Us
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Glad to hear God Grew Tired of us is recommended, it is in my netflix queue and I have been waiting for a quiet evening to watch it!
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
I actually met one of the boys (now he’s man) featured in the movie. He came to the college I attended to speak about the movie and his experience.
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Kristin Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:38 pm
I love when opportunities like that arrise, it makes so much more of an impact on me to hear what the person has to say regarding the work they were in, as well as life in general. Thanks again for the recommendation!
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:46 pm
I HIGHLY recommend V for Vendetta. It was originally a graphic novel and if you want thought provoking, that is the movie to watch. One of my top 5 movies of all time. =)
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Erin J Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
love that movie.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
Oh my goodness. V for Vendetta is THE movie that prompted this change to my thinking about watching R rated movies! TH saw it, talked about how moving he found it, and a few days later I said “I’m ready to see it.” I need to bump it to the top of my Netflix queue.
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January 19th, 2012 on 3:48 pm
Braveheart is my favorite movie of all time! It’s long but a great great movie.
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January 19th, 2012 on 4:22 pm
I dont have any suggestions for you because most of the movies mentioned aren’t rated R in Australia. Ive seen almost all of the suggested movies and theyre only rated M or MA in most cases. The only R rated movie Ive ever seen is the Godfather and I doubt it would be still considered R. Your rating system is probably different, but the only movies rated R here are usually just porn and horror.
Anyway, Jenna you should definitely see Schindlers list, we had to watch it in school when I was 15 and I loved it.
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January 19th, 2012 on 4:25 pm
Now I’ve had a chance to read through some of the previous posts, and here’s my improved “OOH – must watch!” list:
The King’s Speech
Brokeback Mtn
City of God
Master & Commander
Happy watching!
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January 19th, 2012 on 4:27 pm
And Rome is a top 5 favorite series in our house. Definitely a LOT of nudity but the dialogue is top-notch and actually quite intelligent. Ok, I’ll stop now!
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January 19th, 2012 on 4:42 pm
Let me just start off by saying that I don’t strictly adhere to a no-rated-R policy as an Mormon adult (although I did as a “youth”). I do agree that movies such as Schindler’s List, The Patriot, Saving Private Ryan, King’s Speech etc (apparently I’m really into history? haha!) really DO have their place, and can help us learn lessons at an APPROPRIATE age. I emphasize “appropriate” because, I know that as an adult if I feel the Spirit leave the room during a movie/show/book/conversation I HAVE the skills to turn it off or walk out. I might not have been so great at that when I was 13, etc.
That being said, I think sometimes we, Latter-day Saints, take our prophets’ counsel a little too lightly. I firmly believe in personal revelation and learning how to make choices individually. Using our agency is why our Heavenly Father sent us here to begin with. But He also has given us a wonderful gift in modern-day revelation through His prophets. Why are we so quick to seek out what the “critics” have to say about a movie, rather than what President Monsen would say about it? Is that relying more on the “arm of flesh” rather than the “arm of God?” (I’m not sure I have the answer to that… just throwing it out there.)
Sometimes I have to remind myself that the leaders of our church are not old people just trying to make our lives difficult. They are actually very wise, as they spend the majority of their time dealing with the goings-on of the Church. They have a good understanding of us Mormons as a group, and what we’re struggling with. Is everything they say pure doctrine? Absolutely not. But is it worth listening to? Absolutely. Like I said, they (and many other people in the older generation, general authority or not) are wise.
Another (religious) point that I think needs to be made about movie content, and a reason to be careful, is that inappropriate content (whether in a PG or R movie) drives away the Spirit. It’s a slippery slope to say, “oh, that movie was great, except for that ONE PART…” Is it a legitimate argument? Of course! You just have to use good, adult judgment, as you mentioned. Some movies really are worth fast-forwarding a few scenes or perhaps watching the TV version. But we must always be sensitive about whether or not we can still feel the Spirit’s influence.
Besides being inundated with smut, profane language, violence, etc–I think another point they’re trying to make is that there are BETTER things we could be doing with our time than researching and watching movies.
Anyway, sorry for the longest comment EVER! But thanks for the interesting post! Definitely some great things to think about and discuss!
(PS. The 4 rated R movies I mentioned about are very much worth watching. I have also seen Green Mile and Shawshank, both on TV and on DVD… and honestly, I felt a lot more comfortable watching them on TV because of the violent sexual crimes involved, but the messages of both of those movies were very inspiring!)
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January 19th, 2012 on 5:39 pm
I am LDS and I have watched one or two rated R movies in my life, and the TV versions of 5 or 6 others. From the recommendations given in this post I haven’t missed anything. I have either seen them on TV or will eventually see them on TV or on my parents clearplay (which edits language and can take out scenes if necessary). If in the past 15 years there have only been 5-10 MUST SEE rated R movies then I don’t feel like I am missing much by generally not watching rated R movies.
THe new strength of the youth pamphlet does not mention R rated movies as the one during my youth did. That tells me that we are to use our judgement and that “rated R” did not apply to a worldwide church. It does give guidelines of what things to avoid, which if those guildelines were stictly followed would probably rule out R rated movies as well as PG-13 movies, and maybe some PG. The guidelines are pretty strict (as linked to above in other posts). It is easier overall to just say no Rated R movies and use judgement on PG-13 and PG movies which is why I think a lot of families do. That is easier than having to assess each and every rated R movie. More likely than not I would end up wanting to watch a whole lot of R rated movies if I stopped to research each one- because I am sure there are a lot of great ones out there “except for the bad parts.” All of the movies mentioned on here say they are great “except for the bad parts (i.e. except for the swearing, or that one scene with nudity, or I just closed my eyes during the really violent part etc.”
Deciding to watch rated-R movies is basically deciding how many “bad parts” I feel okay viewing/listening to. (I am not one of those people who thinks it is okay just because it is PG 13- I use judgement on those). I am not saying that I am not going to ever watch an R-rated movie, but that I haven’t missed much by not doing so- as I have been able to see the best 5-10 R rated movies of the past 10 years on TV, etc. I do have a lot of LDS friends who started watching an R rated movie here or there because it was so “educational” or “life-changing” and they now watch most R rated movies that come out. It is easy to do so when before they wouldn’t give R-rated movies a second thought but now they look at each one to decide to watch it or not. The more they see the more “bad parts” they are comfortable viewing. I am not at all insinuating that that would happen to Jenna, just that I have seen it happen to a lot of family and friends and that is the one reason I still stay away from them in general. Because I think I would begin to make allowances and lower my qualifications of movie choices, as that is only natural. Overall I don’t feel like I would have missed out on life if I died without ever watching another one, but I could potentially watch something I really regretted or get comfortable watching crap if I did.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
I agree.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
I liked this comment Marissa!I hope I stay true to my ideals once I relax my church-approved standards.
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January 19th, 2012 on 5:55 pm
I am not LDS, but I am a Christian and I just had to chime in on the conversation. I think that one of the things that we need to be aware of here in the US is the MPAA rating system is extremely arbitrary. Movies like The King’s Speech (which is R rated because of language – a very small amount of bad language in relation to some pg-13 movies I have seen)end up in the same category as gratuitous violence and promiscuous sex. There is an interesting documentary about the MPAA that shows just how arbitrary it is called “This Film is Not Yet Rated”. After watching it (I wouldn’t recommend it because it is intentionally offensive in a variety of ways)I have been much more wary of taking what the MPAA has to say as even advisory to me and I now take a stance much closer to Jena’s – looking at each film on a case by case basis.
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January 19th, 2012 on 6:52 pm
I already seconded Forrest Gump & The Kings Speech in reply comments above. I’d also like to add Glory and Windtalkers. Both are history movies (sorry, I’m a history teacher). It’s been a while since I’ve seen Glory, but it’s an older movie with Matthew Broderick in it and a couple other well-known characters that depicts life during the Civil War for the first all-black military regiment. Windtalkers is about the Navajo code-talkers during WWII – this one is shown on tv pretty often, so I’m sure you could actually see this one with the cuss words voiced over. And if I can add one more movie, The Tuskegee Airmen is great! My only complaint is the amount of profanity, but I guess that’s what you get sometimes with military movies. But, now thinking about it, Tuskegee Airmen & Forrest Gump are both PG13 I believe…otherwise I wouldn’t be allowed to show clips in my classroom from them. Oh well, still all great movies
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schmei Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:46 am
Glory is one of my all-time favorite movies; it’s a great recommendation. However, I have to say that Windtalkers… is… well, educational? It’s long and boring. Which is a real shame, because the story of those guys is really interesting.
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Hannah Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I agree, Windtalkers can be a bit boring for most. I tend to watch romantic comedies and history movies. And I find it amazing that most romantic comedies are PG13 while most history movies are R. Though the history movies I mentioned aren’t most top favorite movies, they are in my top must-see movies
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January 19th, 2012 on 7:29 pm
I’m sure this is mentioned somewhere up there, but I absolutely loved The Kings Speech. Extremely inspirational and makes my little social worker heart weep.
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January 19th, 2012 on 7:44 pm
I think this new decision is incredibly wise. I highly recommend Brokeback Mountain, For the Bible Tells Me So (documentary), Iron Jawed Angels, Angels in America, and Boys Don’t Cry. Please let us know what you watch and what you think! Good luck
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schmei Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:42 am
Ooh – Iron-Jawed Angels is a good one! Is that rated R?
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January 19th, 2012 on 8:16 pm
I haven’t been able to go through all of the comments but I got a gist so I won’t try and to repeat the movies. You have a baby boy and thus I don’t know if I can recommend Dear Zachary in good conscience. It’s so thought provoking especially from a legal perspective, but it broke my heart in half.
If you see the movie This Film is Not Yet Rated (kind of strong on the naked people – and I didn’t like that part) then you realize that the entire ratings process is a strictly United States political process. I haven’t looked at a rating in years because I am very much the same way. I don’t watch a lot of movies with “cheap” (as in to get a cheap laugh — lacking any artistic merit) nudity or violence.
Here is my list – Everything is Illuminated, King Speech (is that even rated R?) Milk, is Annie Hall rated R because I love Annie Hall, Beautiful Mind, Good Will Hunting.
I think you’ll be disappointed in the Passion of Christ – I thought it was terrible and independently of Mel Gibson being a total J-Hater.
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January 19th, 2012 on 8:28 pm
“Violence has always been the area where I am the most lenient because of the ways it does (/not) affect me, and will continue to be so, largely because I don’t have any intention of watching movies that are violent in an attempt to celebrate violence (a la horror films).”
I found this really interesting. Violence does bother me most, especially when it is senseless. It deeply troubles me. Whereas I may watch a movie with sex but I strive to watch movies where it is situationally appropriate, not gratuitous and hopefully celebrates the gift it is from God. I’ve never had sex from a movie come back into my mind later, but I am frequently troubled by gratuitious violence for days. Vulgar / foul language also does not stick with me although sheer vulgarity does. American Pie comes to mind – the very premise of the move is vulgar to me but it wasn’t rated R.
I don’t watch many movies because so many are raunchy (see American Pie) but I always look for something that enriches me. My recommended list includes:
Amelie
Lost In Translation -R for Sexual Content (really??)
Ronin – Violency and Language
Elizabeth – Probably Sexual Content, but one of my favorite movies
The Last Emperor – Not Rated but I can tell you it does have sexual content, violence and probably swearing – also one of my favorites
Identity – R for strong violence and language – I found this one really disturbing but incredibly smart and thought provoking.
Heat – R for violence and language
Looking forward to your next post!
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Erin J Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
American Pie is Rated R.
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Andrea Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Well thank you, that is reassuring. The website I looked at last night must have been wrong. I thought it said PG13, but then again maybe I just read it wrong. Anyway, thank you for the correction!
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January 19th, 2012 on 8:29 pm
I don’t have much to add to the conversation, but I find the discussion of ratings to be fascinating, since I am Canadian and our rating system varies province to province. For example, “Eyes Wide Shut” is rated R in Ontario, but PG-13 in Quebec (and our R has a different set of guidelines than your R). If you are interested in researching different films before watching, I would suggest you compare their ratings from country to country, and also find out WHY they were given such a rating.
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:28 pm
So I just want to make it clear….this “enlightenment” thing has nothing to do with the fact your blog has continued to get fewer and fewer comments, which presumably means fewer and fewer viewers. This results in fewer businesses wanting to advertise on your blog. All due to disinteresting content. And this “enlightenment” is just a big ploy to rekindle your readers and gain a few lousy comments…all at the same time as selling your soul to the devil
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:31 pm
Taylor what you are insulting is very insulting.
And you shouldn’t judge traffic based on blog comments. My pageviews are up to 150,000+/month, up from less than 100,000 just a few months ago.
It seems like maybe you are a Christian based on the last few words of your comment. This is not very Christlike.
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Taylor Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Well hopefully this will boost you up to 200,000, no? And remember, I solely asked a question…Do you remember Lehonti?
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vintage_paige Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:45 pm
” Sell your soul to the Devil”? How trite. Obvious trolling is boring.
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Jenna Reply:
January 19th, 2012 at 11:49 pm
You know vintage_paige, I am so back and forth on you. Sometimes I am frustrated by you and our differing opinions/viewpoints. This is not one of those times. I think this may rank as one of my all-time favorite comments on That Wife.
“Obvious trolling is boring”. I’m going to keep that in mind .
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:07 am
Not trite…selling moral conviction for silver or selling moral conviction for more viewers, ads, and comments. Another question…are all of God’s commandments up for open interpretation? 1 Nephi 16:2
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:23 am
Taylor, is this what you cited:
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
?
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:29 am
Other than for the few misspelled words, yes. That is what I referenced.
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:31 am
They are misspelled because of characters on the webpage that I got them from.
I just wanted to make sure I understood what you meant.
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:33 am
No problem.
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:40 am
I just wanted you to answer the questions. Also what about selective obedience? What are your thoughts about that subject vs. what church leaders have said?
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January 19th, 2012 on 9:52 pm
I don’t want to start anything (this has been a great conversation showcasing several valid points) but I had to respond to Taylor that her (his?) comments are out of line. Whether she/he agrees with the content of the post or not, her/his words are harsh and are a personal attack on Jenna’s character. Totally out of place in this forum, in my opinion.
And to Jenna – please ignore the naysayers and continue writing and sharing your thought-provoking posts!
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:08 pm
Of all the movies in all the world, Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan are in my top 10 favorites. My parents showed them to me when I was in high school to expand my world view and allow me to better understand the hardships people endure for my freedom (and the price we’ll pay if we allow that freedom to be taken).
Please be advised that Schindler’s List does have nudity in it, but it’s not “sexy” nudity, its the Nazis humiliating the Jewish people by making them run around naked. (Except for one scene where you see a German woman’s breasts; that’s meant to be sexy.)
There was a man in my home ward who landed on Omaha beach on D-day and he said that Saving Private Ryan is one hundred percent accurate to how it was on that day, minus the smell. That really solidified my love for that movie, because Spielberg worked really hard to make it realistic. It’s not for the weak of stomach, though. The first ten minutes are very, very, very violent, bloody and gory. (But as you noted, not in a ‘gore for the sake of gore’ way; in a historically accurate way.)
I’m excited for you to have this “awakening”. I’m tempted to welcome you to the “dark side” of Mormonism, though I doubt non-Mormons, or absolutist Mormons would appreciate the joke. So I’ll say this: congrats on taking advantage of the gift of free agency.
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January 19th, 2012 on 10:30 pm
I don’t have a lot of movies to add to the long list you’ve been given above, but over the past several months, Koreans have been abuzz with discussions about a movie called ??? or ‘The Crucible.’ It’s a true story about rampant abuse which occured at a school for the hearing imparied here, cover ups, sexually abusive teachers being moved to other schools and still teaching, and the horribly ineffective legal system. It is violent and sexually graphic. I’m sure it would receive an ‘R’ rating if it were shown in the US. But it galvanized public opinion, and since it opened, laws have been passed, article about very very sensitive topic rarely discussed in public have been written, and my students have been doing non stop presentations about the rights of those with disabilities. It would be nice if we could always address issues without having to see the violence ourselves, but often art helps to bridge the gaps between our experiences and others and/or is able to convey a horrible truth that language or our own imagination can not. Sometimes movies show us awful things, but the world is not a beautiful or safe place for many people. I don’t think it’s sinful to watch art that makes us confront these realities and make us critically think about the situation if we use what we see to work toward a better world. Art can be a powerful force of change, and in the case of the movie I’ve discussed, I do not believe such action could have taken place so quickly without people viewing such a deeply disturbing movie.
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Msleetobe Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:23 am
Oh dear, it seems Korean characters don’t show up here. The ??? is the Korean letters for ‘Dogani.’
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January 19th, 2012 on 11:09 pm
I’m LDS and I watch R-rated movies. I don’t like sex or tons of swearing, but I don’t mind violence (if it has a purpose) and really, swearing doesn’t bother me that much unless it’s every other word. Two movies to watch are The King’s Speech (SO good, made me cry) and Saving Private Ryan. A very powerful movie. I love anything having to do with WWII.
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January 20th, 2012 on 12:41 am
Schindler’s List is definitely a masterpiece. It’s one of those movies that will, for lack of a better term, haunt you. It’s a very intense movie, and at the same time it really IS important for people to watch it and see a really ugly side of humanity as well as a very touching side of humanity.
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January 20th, 2012 on 12:58 am
After scrolling through the comments, a couple other thoughts.
Yes, Rome is fantastic, but definitely not for sensitive eyes. There is a LOT of sex and sin and it might be a little shocking. In many ways I AM desensitized to sex in movies and I was even taken aback by a couple scenes.
V is for Vendetta is definitely a good movie to watch – extremely thought provoking, a good movie to watch considering the state of the world today.
Brokeback Mountain – eh. I could have lived without it, I don’t consider it a MUST in anyone’s repertoir.
As someone who has recently become closer to Christ (non-LDS), I find myself not really wanting to indulge in certain “wordly” forms of media, so I can understand your apathy when it comes to Friends. For YEARS I was an avid devotee of Sex and the City and honestly, I don’t see the purpose of the show in my life. It isn’t something that brings me closer to God.
Although I only know you from your blog, I don’t think watching any of the movies you are considering will influence you to casually curse or pick up any other negative behavior. You’re going in to this with a strong faith, and from an intelligent persepective with the intent of broadening your experience. Good for you. Like another commenter noted, art IS a strong force of change, and I also don’t think it’s sinful to watch certain forms of media.
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January 20th, 2012 on 1:45 am
- Life is beautiful (with subtitles)
- Crash
- Margin Call
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January 20th, 2012 on 2:23 am
There is nudity and violence in Schindler’s list. And you will be a better citizen, person, mother, church member for having watched it.
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January 20th, 2012 on 6:23 am
Life is beautiful. Italian w subtitles. Amazing film.
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schmei Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:28 am
Life is Beautiful must be watched with a whole box of tissues by your side. Oh, man, I’m crying just thinking about it… such a great film.
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January 20th, 2012 on 9:01 am
I don’t comment much, but I wanted to add Band of Brothers. It is a TV series by HBO. My husband is a veteran and LOVES this series. I find it difficult to watch at times because it is very violent, but it is based on a true story that follows a group of men from training in the 101st Airborne (Easy Company)to the end of WW II. If you are interested in seeing the affects of war on a group of individuals (it also shows commentary from the real men the series was based on)I highly recommend this show. I had never seen it before I met my husband and I now have a MUCH more in depth knowledge of WWII and what these men went through. I have an entirely new respect for what those soldiers did (and do) experience not just for freedom, but so often for the man/woman standing next to them. Looking forward to this series!
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Carla / Meerkat Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:03 am
I second that! Band of Brothers is amazing and I LOVED watching the interviews afterward with the real men the story was written about.
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Ashley T. Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:07 am
Yeah, I cry every time Capt. Winters recounts his experiences. It leaves me in awe every time I watch it… and trust me when I say it is a LOT! My Husband’s birthday present was the Blu Ray set and he couldn’t have been happier
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Mags Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:42 am
YES! My absolute favorite miniseries of all time.
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January 20th, 2012 on 9:47 am
If you removed all constraints, and wanted to watch what I think has been the best television of recent years, you’d watch The Sopranos, and then Friday Night Lights. One is close to X-rated, the other pretty much PG. Narrative and deep emotion respect few boundaries.
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katiebug Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:15 am
Friday Night Lights times, like a thousand.
I read this post yesterday and then spent a lot of the day pondering what R rated movies have changed my life. (Not being LDS, I’ve watched tons of them.)
In addition to some of those above, I would add a lot of European cinema: Bicycle Thieves, a smattering of Bergman, etc. Plus some of Wong Kar-wai’s movies; my favorite is In the Mood for Love. (Which, if you are interested in the visual and photography, might be the most gorgeous film of the past 10 years.)
But in terms of things that will spark conversation, represent American life accurately, and are just flat out awesome, Friday Night Lights all the way. My husband and I spent so much time talking about parenting teenagers, our up-bringing in a small town, faith, class, race, etc. while watching that show. Seriously, you have to watch it.
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January 20th, 2012 on 12:57 pm
I had this same “awakening” several years ago, but for me it had to do with pride. I did not watch R rated movies not so much because of my standards but so that I could say “I have NEVER watched an R rated movie!” … while insinuating that this fact made me so righteous. Yeah, I slowly realized this was more of a sin than watching an R rated movie. Now, like what you’ve decided, I watch movies based on how they can enrich my life (whether through knowledge or empathy or beauty) rather than just a letter. It’s made me a better person, and a less judgmental one. (not that I’m even close perfect, just better in this regard)
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Jenna Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Oh I certainly can’t deny a feeling of pride whenever I could say out loud that I had never seen an R rated movie. In a group of non-members it set me apart (I guess some probably thought it set me apart in a bad way, haha) and in a group of members it could be a way to prove that I was doing things “right” (even if maybe I was doing a lot of other stuff rather imperfectly). I guess now that I write that out, it was a thing for me to check off my list to help me feel like a better person. Does that make sense?
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January 20th, 2012 on 1:20 pm
I am kind of confused at this “awakening” I thought for sure you were going to do another home birth to boost your blog, but this caught me off guard. I am not sure why you are openly attacking the strength of youth pamphlet, it clearly provides great advice for our protection as we navigate through life. It would be better if you not advertise that you are mormon if you are going to openly attack the Church. In regards to “R” rated movies, yeah there is distant quotes that say not to watch them but in essence there are many non-r rated shows that are inappropriate also. The 13th article of Faith states it best If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. I know there are shows out there that you want to be enlightened by, and there saying that you can always justify a little sin. So go ahead, justify, but just remember the slope is slippery, I hope you can find something to grab onto
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
Amen…cough….lehonti
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Erin J Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
& why are you attacking her for using her brain & thinking for herself instead of what someone tells her to think.
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Taylor Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
Who is telling her what to think? That husband?
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Sophia Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Taylor, you know, your first comments led me to believe that you were a conservative Mormon, trolling and being self righteous. This one leads me to believe that you’re just a garden variety GOMI gnome who is trying to “hit her where it hurts” by flinging her religion back in her face in the first comment, and alluding to control by her husband in this one. Either way, kind of pathetic.
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Taylor Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 10:50 pm
I agree with a comment patrick has made…why not answer those who have questions for her. Why not answer what she thinks about certain scripture, or her rationalization for what the church has said. I have only posted questions. I have never belittled her or insulted her. I just want to know how someone touts their strong belief in the church, yet not support its teachings? She seems to comment and indulge in all the things people say supporting her choice…or her rationalization.
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Sophia Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 11:49 pm
This comment was a legitimate question. Saying someone was selling her soul to the devil for page views is, in my mind, insulting, and that was your first comment out of the gate on this post. Saying someone has changed her mind because her husband is thinking for her is, in my mind,also insulting.
Telling someone you disagree with what she thinks and asking her why she changed her mind? Not insulting. Also, I’m sorry for my first harsh comment. It was inappropriate and I shouldn’t have said it.
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Rachel Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 11:05 am
Holy wow, I just googled “GOMI” and I can’t believe there’s an entire website devoted to making fun of random bloggers! If you think mommy-bloggers are stupid (no offense J, I don’t feel that way), then what does that make you to spend so much time writing and editing your own blog posts to mock them? SMH
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January 20th, 2012 on 2:53 pm
This series is really interesting to me. I’m not Mormon, but I am going to share these blogs and podcasts with my friend that is and who struggles with her faith.
I’m interested – do you think you would have had this “Awakening” if TH hadn’t as well? From what I can gather, it feels like he has led in many ways… which is unsurprising as the husband is supposed to be a spiritual leader. Just curious about how you guys have come to this together.
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Jenna Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Though we’ve reached several similar conclusions, it’s been an individual journey for both of us. He brings up a topic, we talk it through and decide where we stand individually on the points. I bring up a topic, we go through the same process. I wouldn’t call either of us a leader at this point (well I am the leader of the “writing the blog posts” movement I guess). Though he may have similar views on these topics I’m going to write about, they are my views alone, unless I directly state otherwise. I’m not trying to speak for him.
We feel very grateful that we’ve made this progression together, as we have several friends who have not done things quite the same way.
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January 20th, 2012 on 4:23 pm
Hi Jenna!
Good for you for having such an open mind. I may not comment very much but truth be told I admire you a lot!!
Apologies if I’m repeating any, but here are some R-rated movies that seriously changed my way of thinking about the world.
I recommend all of them because the violence or sexuality depicted is essential or adds to the impact of the film, rather than being gratuitous or solely for entertainment. And in most of these the language is also for verisimilitude, not for laughs or impact.
Some of them involve a serious investment of emotional energy, but I think it is well worth it.
I list them in order of intensity:
The Motorcycle Diaries- About the famous journey of revolutionary Che Guevara.
…Rated R only for language, but you can avoid that if you watch in Spanish and put subtitles
Crash – About racism- it will seriously blow your mind.
…Rated R for language, one brief scene of sexual assault (not rape), and violence.
Babel – Fundamentally about miscommunication, as it follows an unfolding tragedy on three continents.
…Rated R for violence, one scene of graphic nudity, two very brief depictions of self-exposure/masturbation, language and one scene of drug use (not very obvious/disturbing)
A PG-13 one that you may not have seen is Hotel Rwanda. Although very little direct violence is shown, the implied violence is very disturbing (more so knowing that it really occurred). Yet this film more than any other changed my life and perspective on the failures of the international community.
Anyway hope that helps!
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Hannah Lundberg Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 10:50 pm
I majorly +1 this post.
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Jenna Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 1:18 pm
This comment was SO helpful. I +1 it as well! Thank you so much for taking some time to talk about what’s in the movies, and why you would recommend them.
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January 20th, 2012 on 5:22 pm
Ah, the Passion of the Christ. I grew up hearing the story of Christ on the cross, and felt like I was very familiar with it. When I saw that movie I felt like I could see color for the first time. Mel Gibson did a great job of trying to stay as accurate as possible to the biblical accounts.
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January 20th, 2012 on 5:31 pm
I’m sorry you have to deal with the nay-sayers, but I’m not surprised that they came out (unfortunately!). I think you have a right to question as you wish and to make your own conscious decisions that are in line with your feelings & beliefs.
You’ve received a lot of great movie suggestions. I haven’t read through all of them, so I am sure these will be duplicates, but I wanted to share anyway. I LOVE movies so, so much!
Inglorious Basterds
Good Will Hunting
Love Actually (there is a nude scene that you can skip through!)
Shawshank Redemption (it was filmed in my hometown!)
The Departed
Up in the Air
I have more, I just can’t think of them right now!
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Steph Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:31 pm
I forgot Love Actually! That movie is great! I forgot it was even R-rated.
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January 20th, 2012 on 6:14 pm
I’m really glad to hear that you’re taking a more active approach to certain parts of your faith! I’m not very religious now, but grew up very involved in my church (united methodist). I feel the older i’ve become the more aware I am of the choices i’m making. And that’s what this seems to be to me. And there is nothing wrong with that! Everyone has their own personal journey to find what really holds true for themselves.
As far as movies go, I feel that as long as whatever actions happen onscreen are driven by purpose as opposed to being gratuitous, it’s ok. I used to never swear (made it all the way through high school and even some college!) but now the occasional expletive drops out. I wouldn’t say that watching ‘R’ rated movies are to blame, more so that I was surrounded by peers who let me know how “weird” it was. But I’m not running around dropping f-bombs every chance I get either!
I think it’s very intelligent of you to trust your own judgement about what movies/tv shows you watch. You can learn so much about yourself and other people by watching something that might make you feel a little uncomfortable for a few minutes. I’d say that’s worth it.
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January 20th, 2012 on 8:13 pm
My seminary teacher did an object lesson where he took a donut and offered it to one of the kids in the class. It looked delicious but the only problem was that he had put a little glob of dog poo on part of it. Would you eat it? No. Not even the good parts that weren’t touched by the dog poo? No way. Now apply this to movies. If a movie has a good message but there’s just a little profanity, nudity, etc., is it okay to rationalize standards away?? I don’t think so.
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Jenna Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 11:18 pm
Did he also lick the top of a cupcake and then offer it to you to prove to you that you shouldn’t have sex because you would then be “used goods”?
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Carrie Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Believe it or not, no.
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Carrie Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:46 pm
You know, it was Bro. Degn, I don’t know if you remember him. I’m sure he spent some time in Royal, since he was over the Stake’s seminary program. He lives in Utah somewhere, you should look him up and share with him your “awesome” follow up to the object lesson…
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Jenna Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Oh I remember him well. He shot me black and blue with a paintball gun at girls camp while I was holding my hands over my head in surrender.
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Loma Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 12:57 am
My seminary teach did the same thing.
I just find it kind of flawed becasue poop is such an extreme object.
I wouldnt consider nudity/profanity “poop”. Maybe a “burnt/undercooked part” of the doughnut. but POOP?
Too me poop would be XXX pornographic stuff/bloody gorey psycho stuff or horrible nonstop profanity.
I think a better object lesson would be making a batch of cookies and including a few burned ones, some perfectly baked ones, a couple raw ones,etc.
Then you could take out the ones you dont like or aren’t up to you standard and keep the ones you think “taste” the best. Toss the bad ones in the garbage & keep the tasty ones.
That makes more sense rather than straight up CRAP on a pastry.
Now all this talk is making me want cookies and doughnuts now…without poop of course!
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Tiffany Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 9:53 am
Carrie your object lesson made complete sense…Jenna, i don’t think yours did!
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Sophia Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 7:53 pm
Tiffany, Jenna brought it up because both of them- Carrie’s and hers- are very common object lessons. Another one related to purity (like the donut) is to pass a rose around until it’s all mangled and has “lost it’s beauty” and then compare this to a woman who has lost her virtue before marriage. Another one is talking about passing around chewed gum : /
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January 20th, 2012 on 8:17 pm
I think it is interesting that a lot of these comments state why the movie is rated what it is. and most say well there is this scene for whatever reasons…but it is easy to fast forward through, or you can just skip this part. Don’t you think once you have to start skipping parts in movies you shouldn’t be watching them? an honest question. It sounds like a whole lot of justification to me. I guess for me the standard should be whether I can watch the whole movie through without having to fast forward, and if i get to a part that i feel crosses that line then I should walk out or turn it off.
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Steph Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 8:59 pm
@Tiffany: I agree with you for the most that if you’re going to be forwarding through many scenes in a movie, perhaps you shouldn’t watch it to begin with.
In defense of Kristin’s point, though, I think there are some movies that are really worth watching- which due to poor writing or editing may have one particularly disturbing or racy scene that can be skipped.
Love Actually is one where I think you could forward through the nudity scenes without losing the essence of the film – the nudity/sexuality is almost exclusively part of one separate story line that’s mostly added for comedic relief. And Jenna did specifically mention she prefers to avoid nudity.
In my case I shared the information not to defend the movies or justify their content, but so that Jenna could decide if she was comfortable – based on her own personal criteria – watching the movies to begin with.
I would not recommend that she skip any of the difficult scenes in Crash or Babel, as they are fundamental to the storyline and underlying meaning of the movies. If one would rather not see those scenes then it is better to go without seeing the movie at all.
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Steph Reply:
January 20th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
To clarify maybe I don’t mean to say “poor writing or editing” rather that sometimes good directors directing good movies leave in a scene for shock or comedic value, that perhaps could have been better left out.
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January 20th, 2012 on 10:48 pm
Jenna, I am loving this series. I think that it is amazing that you can ask questions while maintaining your faith.
I will say that Ides of March is one of the best movies I have ever seen. Honestly, it truly is. It has a lot of content that I think you may find shocking, but i wholeheartedly believe that it is worth watching all the same.
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January 21st, 2012 on 1:11 am
I think some of the comments that have been left on this post help to perfectly sum up what drives people (myself included) away from organized religions. There seems to be this fear of people who dare to ask questions, to push stated boundaries, or to explore alternatives to the party line.
When children are small we as parents understand that they will test us- and that that testing is a healthy part of growing up (toddlers, anyone?). Shouldn’t we consider that this type of testing is normal in other areas as well- like our faith? Since when did religion and spirituality become synonymous?
Testing something can break it or it can make it stronger. I don’t think that it makes the thing being tested any less weak or any more strong. Jenna is questioning the why’s behind some of the things that she has always believed- but her faith is her own and frankly, should be personal to her.
Brava Jenna for having the courage to explore your own boundaries. Not everyone can do that comfortably. I think whether you find yourself back where you began, or in a totally different place, you’ll be a better, stronger person because of it- and so will your faith.
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Nodakademic Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 2:15 pm
I agree with you, Andria. Especially about the fear and pushing boundaries. From the other perspective, these boundaries are in place to guide followers of the religion to lead a pure and righteous life. But from my perspective, they can also provide a blanket to prevent people from thinking for themselves.
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Andria Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 8:02 pm
I couldn’t agree more!
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January 21st, 2012 on 7:39 am
Interestingly, as I scroll through the comments it seems you ignore the comments that are counter to your “awakening.” You claim to be having a more open mind, but in reality your mind is very shut to anything that is not aligned with your thoughts. But hey, we all have biases, and it feels a lot better reading and interacting with the comments that support our opinions and further push us in that path.
What also shocked me is that there were many comments from “LDS” readers and not many defended the Strength of Youth Pamphlet, which is published under the direction of the first presidency and quorum of the apostles. As Jesus said on the Sermon “for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.” However, Lehi did warn of that “And after they had tasted of the fruit they were ashamed, because of those that were scoffing at them; and they fell away into forbidden paths and were lost.”
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 8:57 am
Sorry Jenna, but I have to agree with Patrick here.
I’m interested to know why you aren’t addressing critics about your new choice. To me these people aren’t “meanies”, “haters”, or “trolls”. They aren’t calling you names like dumb, stupid, or saying your a bad mother or even a bad person. And obviously what they’ve been saying wasn’t bad enough for you to delete.
So why aren’t you answering them?
I think that if you are bold enough to put out a post about your change in views you should be bold enough to answer questions and address critiques. Not doing so seems a bit childish. Or makes me wonder if you can publicly defend your views.
And for anyone saying “Well, she doesn’t have to explain herself.” – Your right, she doesn’t. But as a public blogger that leaves her comments open for “discussion” she is missing in areas that are important.
It kind of frustrates me that you take time to comment on comments that support you but you are more than happy to comment on things that are in line with your views.
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 8:58 am
*replace “but” with and
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Jenna Reply:
January 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm
I didn’t feel like I had anything constructive to add to the conversation. I spent my time composing the post, and I didn’t have much more time to give. I’m not going to change their minds by arguing with them.
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Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I understand.
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January 21st, 2012 on 9:43 am
Jenna, I’ve been reading your blog for a long time, and after growing up in a very liberal, non-mormon family in Utah, I have to say your take on things is refreshing. Growing up, I was really bullied for my beliefs, had missionaries sent to my home on multiple occasions by “friends,” and a lot of other pretty terrible things. I never understood the whole no rated R movies thing…it always seemed to me part holier-than-thou part ignorance, part you really do miss out on some wonderful, thought provoking films that are out there.
So here are my recommendations:
The Deer Hunter
Amores Perros (I know some have mentioned Babel…while that is good, I think this one by the same director is much better)
Match Point
Annie Hall
Crash
Traffic
Maria Full of Grace
City of God
Y Tu Mama Tambien
Pan’s Labyrinth
Talk to Her
As you can probably tell, my taste lends itself well to latin american cinema. But they are all great and thought-provoking in one way or another.
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January 21st, 2012 on 10:07 am
Life as a House is one of my all time favorite movies! A lot of people haven’t seen it, but it’s wonderful.
Other recommendations I would second are The King’s Speech (it’s absolutely flawless and the acting is superb), The Patriot (one of the few war movies I actually like), and Love Actually (because there are so many beautiful story lines).
And another movie that I’m surprised no one has mentioned is Blood Diamond. It’s really informative, has great acting, and has a really uplifting ending. I think I enjoyed it more than Hotel Rwanda.
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Piper Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:35 am
I cried so much during Blood Diamond. I probably should have waited until I wasn’t pregnant to watch that one–I still would have cried but maybe not quite so much :p
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January 21st, 2012 on 10:33 am
Hello, my wife has posted a few comments her, and she shared this with me. I have been LDS my whole life. I went to church, served a mission, and was married in the Temple. I watch R rated movies, and I don’t care what any self righteous person says about it.
The thing I find most interesting about this subject is that while I don’t judge others for not watching films that may be life changing, and yes many R rated films are, I am judged by those who don’t watch them.
The common Mormon motto is “well, I don’t judge you, but I’ll choose to follow the counsel of the Prophet”. Sorry, but a statement like that is judgmental. Say what you like, but people who put themselves above others tend to be easy to knock down.
Another thing about this topic. I have never seen a film with violence and thought it was okay to hurt another. I have never seen a movie with sex, and thought that it would be okay to cheat on my wife. My standards are not easily swayed by what I see. Kids may be different, but as an adult I know what is right and wrong.
May we all be able to make our own choices and not care about the narrow minded remarks of others.
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January 21st, 2012 on 11:20 am
Well wow, what a topic. The only movie I can think of to add is “Slumdog Millionaire”.
It’s harsh. And so are many things in some of the movies recommended. But guess what? Life is harsh, people do terrible things, and can we learn from them? I think yes. Is it better to insulate ourselves and pretend these things never happened? Or, to feel their pain and then resolve to go on and be better ourselves.
Wait, here’s a few more “R”s I’ve seen, completely gratuitous but I’m an anglophile, what can I say? (you need to appreciate English humor to get these)
Lock, Stock & two smoking barrels
The Full Monty
Brassed Off
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January 21st, 2012 on 2:02 pm
I really loved “Slumdog Millionaire” mostly because it was very close to reality and of of course, I agree with @Lisa and appreciate English Humor. Also I must say, films with sex and violence can lead it’s audience towards it because it is human mind and once you love a movie, you will be in it for a long time. So people should be aware of it.
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January 21st, 2012 on 2:50 pm
I’m not a religious person nor was I raised as one (although I come from a Mennonite extended family) and I was never restricted one what movies I watched. I stopped paying attention to ratings when I was a young teen so I can’t say whether any of these are specifically rated R, but these are movies that I enjoy.
Dawn of the Dead (1978)- Horror and zombies, but an excellent commentary on consumerism and race relations in the 70′s.
The Prestige
Doubt
Band of Brothers
John Adams
Pan’s Labyrinth
Lord of the Rings Trilogy
American History X
Shadow of the Vampire
Fido- again zombies, but an excellent commentary about race and how we treat those we deem as “less than desirable”
Smoke Signals
Girl, Interrupted
Gettysburg
Gods and Monsters
Pearl Harbor
…I could go on, but well yeah. LOL
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January 21st, 2012 on 3:04 pm
I’ve never commented before (I think) but just chiming in to say it breaks my heart you’ve never seen Shawshank Redemption and want to be the 1000th person to recommend it. *Especially* if you’re someone (like me) who is a sucker for personal triumph stories a la TBL, please please start with this one and then proceed to be glad you didn’t wait another day before watching it. I don’t even know why it’s rated R.
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January 22nd, 2012 on 11:44 am
Hi Jenna,
Me again – I suggested some movies above, but had to come back as I forgot to say:
- Blood Diamond! This film moved me so much, and I still think about it to this day. Rated R for violence and some swearing, but it is integral to the story line. It’s also helped propel the movement towards ethical diamonds, and is an incredible insight into race relations in much of Africa. I was born in South Africa and can speak to its accuracy.
- Slumdog Millionaire is another favourite.
- Shawshank Redemption is my favourite movie of all time. I didn’t suggest it earlier as I had seen it was already recommended to you, but I just had to chime in with one more voice in support of you seeing it.
Just wanted to add that I think you are very brave in doing this series, and publicly expressing your personal evolution. I’m not a member of any organized religion, so I can’t properly identify or imagine how difficult it must be to ‘stand out from the crowd’ with a different perspective, but I want to commend you for it.
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January 22nd, 2012 on 6:34 pm
A cool story on this debate (that many of the LDS commenters have been having) from when I was an English major at BYU:
My professor told us about a talk that Elder Eyring gave to the English department, a few years back. A professor asked him what their responsibility was in the case of students who complained about some of the books that were assigned to them on grounds of them being too violent or having improper language. Elder Eyring told them a story about how TWO different other members of the quorum of the 12 recommended a movie to him. He and his wife decided to go see it. But after five minutes into the movie, they both felt so uncomfortable they decided to leave. He said (and I’m obviously paraphrasing here from what I remember): “It’s not that I’m more righteous than those other members of the quorum of the twelve. It’s just that we each have a different threshold at which we can feel the Spirit. It’s not our place to judge what makes other people feel the Spirit or not–and it’s not our place to judge what makes them lose the Spirit.”
I LOVED that. And I love Elder Eyring. Of course I don’t think two of the Quorum of the 12 were recommending an R-rated movie (although he didn’t say what movie it was), but I think this applies perfectly to any discussion about what media you think is appropriate. And I think it makes a lot of sense, that even among the Quorum of the 12 apostles, there are different levels of tolerance in movies. What makes you feel the Spirit more? A movie about the triumphant victory of the human spirit? (To be cheesy?) Or a redundant (but safe) romantic comedy?
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Jenna Reply:
January 22nd, 2012 at 6:36 pm
Really excellent comment Alyse! I took a class on the works of Cormac McCarthy. I wish I had had this “revelation” back then, because most of the class went to see No Country For Old Men right after reading the book. Ohhh, that reminds me, I want to add The Road to my list of movies to see!
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Kate Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:09 am
Jenna, I almost recommended The Road to you in my comment above… But I didn’t purposely, because that movie haunts me like no other one ever has. Nightmares, everything. I think it’s likely an insight into what might happen in a post-apocalyptic world, but I do just want to forewarn you, (obviously noting that you are able to see anything you want!!), but I concerned that the imagery and scenes depicted might stay with you in an unhealthy way as well… Particularly if R movies are relatively new to you. I hope you know that I mean that in the most respectful way possible. The Road, however, was a horror movie to me. Perhaps (hopefully not!) a picture into what a future time may look like, but a horror nonetheless.
A similar option (and easier to stomach,) is The Book of Eli.
I also forgot to recommend The Hurt Locker. About a bomb disposal exper in Iraq, that seemingly has no fear… Phenomenal movie and interesting view into american operations there and the situation as a whole. Rated R for occasional swearing and some violence.
Oh, and Margin Call has some swearing, bit no violence, nudity, etc. About a firm (think Lehmann Brothers) and the start of the economic crisis. Excellent!
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Kate Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:18 am
The Hurt Locker also won some Oscars a couple of years ago…
A Beautiful Mind is also a good movie. Some swearing, no violence or nudity that I can remember.
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Jenna Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:00 pm
I took a class on McCarthy my last semester at BYU and loved The Road, so I feel like I have a pretty good handle on the subject matter? I found the book to be a beautiful depiction of a father/son relationship, but maybe that didn’t translate very well for the movie. I guess I’ll see.
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January 22nd, 2012 on 6:35 pm
And I’ll add my favorite R-rated movie on here, although someone else might have already said it–Little Miss Sunshine. It’s SUCH a family-friendly film, but it just has a lot of cursing in it. And a scene where the grandpa is taking some drugs. But oh, the ending makes me cheer!
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January 23rd, 2012 on 4:08 pm
When I was in High School I had a third whole pierced in my ear. A spot for my future big diamond. I enjoyed wearing three earrings. I had been married for some time when the Prophet counciled the members to not get caught up in body piercings, recommending one whole in each ear. One day I was teaching a Primary class(a group of young children in Sunday School),and one of the children asked why I had an extra whole in my ear. I made some comment about enjoying wearing three earrings when she looked up to me and said: “Don’t you have the same Prophet I do?” It was really not that big of a deal, it was an earring for heaven’s sakes. But the earring was not the question. The question was are you going to follow the council of the church leaders in the small things also? When we pick and choose what council we want to follow we put ourselves in a constant state of analyzing each and every word from our church leaders. I guarantee you, your children will see your example. You are correct we all get to choose what we will do. Sometimes all of us (including me) make better choices some days than other days.
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Tiffany Reply:
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:57 pm
That Mom, I hope you chime in on all of these awakening posts!
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Danielle Reply:
January 24th, 2012 at 11:19 am
I suppose I fail to see the problem with analyzing each and every word from our church leaders. I think that’s a good thing. I have free agency. I am entitled to receive spiritual confirmation of any commandment or guideline. I am entitled to live the life God would have me live, even if it doesn’t look the way someone else’s God-directed life does. Church leaders aren’t infallible and aren’t immune to generational and/or cultural biases that are not God given. That’s why we’re taught to seek confirmation for ourselves.
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January 23rd, 2012 on 5:40 pm
I am with you on this. I don’t like watching R rated movies more for the reason of nudity or the excessive profanity. It doesn’t mean I don’t watch certain movies that are. My parents and I watched Kings Speech and that was such an amazing movie! It was edited so the F word wasn’t in it at all. The clear player would be awesome for those types of things especially with a little one around!
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January 24th, 2012 on 1:24 am
It seems to me that there are two main (Mormon) groups commenting on this post. There are the letter of the law folks and the spirit of the law folks.
The letter of the law folks need to have everything spelled out in very firm terms, they reference the Benson talk back in 86(?) to illustrate that the no R rated movies is the standard. As far as they’re concerned it’s very black and white.
The spirit of the law folks are comfortable with adhering to what they believe is the purpose of the standard. They reference the fact that the brethren have moved away from spelling it all out (probably for the very reasons I’ve seen here- the church is globally active. It doesn’t make sense to use a flawed, secular, and subjectively driven rating system as the standard)for the whole planet). They seem to instead be asking that we use our brains to know what is appropriate. They are trusting us to make that judgement call and to try and follow the promptings that we receive to recognize those boundaries- be it PG, PG-13, or R.
Jenna didn’t say that she was going to run out and rent Debbie Does Dallas or Chainsaw V. She seemed to indicate that she wanted to carefully weigh each movie, and based on her own research allow herself to watch films that she believed would help her grow and think as a person.
Nothing drives me more crazy than to see people try and out-Mormon each other. It’s well meaning but irritating as all hell! If you disagree with her decision, by all means pray for her to learn something from this experience. If you agree with her and support her decisions, leave her enough room to change her mind again. Who knows, she could come back after watching some of these movies and realize that she wasn’t as comfortable with viewing them as she thought that she would be. And that’s okay too.
Nothing will drive someone away from the church faster than feeling like there is no space to question, test, and explore. Feeling judged and looked down on (whether intentionally or not) will only leave a bad taste in their mouth. Trust me, I know.
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Jackie W. Reply:
January 24th, 2012 at 2:38 am
Yes! Exactly! I’ve been reading each of these comments hoping that someone would be able to communicate the way I feel about this whole thing. I really REALLY love this part “Nothing drives me more crazy than to see people try and out-Mormon each other. It’s well meaning but irritating as all hell!”
And this: “Nothing will drive someone away from the church faster than feeling like there is no space to question, test, and explore. Feeling judged and looked down on (whether intentionally or not) will only leave a bad taste in their mouth. Trust me, I know.”
We have agency for a reason. I’m proud to say that I don’t blindly follow every single piece of doctrine. I feel it makes me a better Church member and a better person. Good on you, Jenna.
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Katy Reply:
January 24th, 2012 at 7:23 am
“Nothing drives me more crazy than to see people try and out-Mormon each other.”
Love that. I went to BYU and the education I got there was fantastic – - loved that we could pray in class, talk about God, and the major I was in really prepared me for my work once I gradutated. Top notch university and I’m very proud I went there.
However, the culture was one my husband and I (we transferred there together before getting married, then married before our senior year) struggled with. That’s exactly what I tell people – everyone was trying to out-Mormon each other. We don’t miss that aspect at all and having lived in different places in the country, we find how refreshing it is when we LDS people just support one another as brothers and sisters in the Gospel and refrain from judgement and looking down. There really are the ‘big’ things in the Gospel and commandments to follow, and then there are the relatively ‘little’ things. But since we are a people that want to perfect ourselves in all areas, we make the little things the big things and lose sight of the bigger picture.
I’ve also been meaning to remind everyone that Jenna didn’t say she’s now going to rent every R rated film she can get her hands on (Debbie Does Dallas…ha!:) Let’s just all lighten up on one another – even if someone needs to be “called to repentance” doing so with such obvious disdain never, ever works.
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January 26th, 2012 on 2:43 pm
One question–You said you have read many Cormac McCarthy books –he’s one of my Fav. authors– but his characters have sex, drink and smoke, swear plenty and most books depict terrible acts of violence
Why has it been ‘ok’ in your mind to Read these things but not view them (in a movie setting)? I guess I just don’t really see how you can say one is ok but the other is not ok.
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January 26th, 2012 on 2:53 pm
To clarify–I mean to me it seems MUCH milder to watch a rated R movie with some swearing than it is to read a book depicting a woman giving birth, killing her baby, putting a stick through it and roasting it over a fire to eat.
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January 26th, 2012 on 11:17 pm
Great topic and very thoughtfully written. This is something I’ve actually been thinking about a lot lately. I have watched a very select few rated R movies, Schindler’s List included. I just watched Last of the Mohicans and thought it was a beautiful film, however extremely violent and at the end I turned to my husband and said “I feel like I have post-traumatic stress disorder.” And he felt the same.
And so we’ve been philosophizing ever since about what is and what is not acceptable entertainment. I think ratings are very misleading and personally feel more pg-13 movies are far worse than some rated R movies, as far as the FTSOY standards go, but I’m not concerned with going “by-the-book” so much as seeking things that are good for my soul and avoiding those that will damage it. (Which I believe is precisely the goal of the FTSOY pamphlet.)
So I ask the question, is viewing such violent material, however historically accurate and “mind-opening”, good for my soul? Will it enlighten me in a way that I can not acquire any other way? Can the Holy Ghost be with me, speak to me, inspire me, when I watch this movie?
I’m still questioning. I haven’t come to any definitive answer. All I know is, my heart hurts when I watch some of those movies, and I’m not always sure it’s growing pains.
But I HIGHLY recommend THE KING’S ENGLISH.
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January 26th, 2012 on 11:23 pm
Also, I think this is a good guideline. Basically what I was trying to say:
“The standard is clear. If something we think, see, hear, or do distances us from the Holy Ghost, then we should stop thinking, seeing, hearing, or doing that thing. If that which is intended to entertain, for example, alienates us from the Holy Spirit, then certainly that type of entertainment is not for us.” Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “That We May Always Have His Spirit to Be with Us,” Ensign, May 2006, 30.
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