22 Mar
Salvation. Exaltation. Damnation.
After posting on topics such as the Plan of Salvation and the Temple, I started receiving comments and emails that used the term “salvation.’ Questions such as “Can I be saved if I don’t believe in the LDS Church?” I found myself attempting to answer completely different questions using very similar explanations, until I realized that a more practical solution would be to define the terms damnation, salvation, and exaltation in the LDS context.
Before I get into these terms, I wanted to remind you of the difference between the LDS views of heaven and hell. In the LDS faith, there is no hell. There is a place called Outer Darkness where Satan will live for eternity with his followers after the final Judgement, but it’s very hard to get there. Actually, only people who are baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ and then turn away from the faith (not just people who go inactive, but people who deny God after having a sure witness), are sent there. Heaven is divided up into three glories, Telestial, Terrestial, and Celestial. For a more in-depth explanation of the three glories and outer darkness, please visit my post on the subject here.
Salvation
As used in Romans 10:9–10, the words “saved” and “salvation” signify a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Through this covenant relationship, followers of Christ are assured salvation from the eternal consequences of sin if they are obedient. That’s what other Christian faiths believe as well. The difference, is who we believe is saved, and how.
Salvation from Physical Death. All people eventually die. But through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected—saved from physical death. Paul testified, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). In this sense, everyone is saved, regardless of choices made during this life. This is a free gift from the Savior to all human beings. All people are saved, no matter their skin color, age, race, how good or evil they are, their belief system, or period they lived on the earth. The Buddhists, the Jews, the Christians, the Taoists, the Hindus, and every other person who has ever lived on this earth. No one has to go to hell because they didn’t learn about Jesus Christ during their lifetime.
Here’s an excerpt from a talk given by Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorom of the Twelve Apostles
“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (A of F 1:3).
Many Bible verses declare that Jesus came to take away the sins of the world (e.g., John 1:29; Matt. 26:28). The New Testament frequently refers to the grace of God and to salvation by grace (e.g., John 1:17; Acts 15:11; Eph. 2:8). But it also has many specific commandments on personal behavior, and many references to the importance of works (e.g., Matt. 5:16; Eph. 2:10; James 2:14–17). In addition, the Savior taught that we must endure to the end in order to be saved (see Matt. 10:22; Mark 13:13).
Relying upon the totality of Bible teachings and upon clarifications received through modern revelation, we testify that being cleansed from sin through Christ’s Atonement is conditioned upon the individual sinner’s faith, which must be manifested by obedience to the Lord’s command to repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). “Verily, verily, I say unto thee,” Jesus taught, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5; see also Mark 16:16; Acts 2:37–38). Believers who have had this required rebirth at the hands of those having authority have already been saved from sin conditionally, but they will not be saved finally until they have completed their mortal probation with the required continuing repentance, faithfulness, service, and enduring to the end.
Some Christians accuse Latter-day Saints who give this answer of denying the grace of God through claiming they can earn their own salvation. We answer this accusation with the words of two Book of Mormon prophets. Nephi taught, “For we labor diligently … to persuade our children … to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne. 25:23). And what is “all we can do”? It surely includes repentance (see Alma 24:11) and baptism, keeping the commandments, and enduring to the end. Moroni pleaded, “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ” (Moro. 10:32).
This is one of my favorite principles of the gospel. We aren’t punished for our ignorance, Christ made the ultimate sacrifice for each and every one of us. Many people live in a state of darkness, not knowing the light of the restored gospel. They are “only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it” (D&C 123:12). God is so incredibly just.
Let’s take a moment to talk about really evil people. Like Hitler, or Saddam, or Stalin. They too, are provided salvation from death. This can be a difficult concept to swallow, because we don’t want to hear such positive outcomes (for salvation is a wonderful thing) applied to such awful men. Remember this post about the pre-existence? We all lived together with God before we were born, every single soul who has come, and will ever come to the earth. At one point, we all were good enough to make the choice to come to earth and be tested (instead of following Satan). But, when we came to the earth, we forgot who we were before we were born, and we began to fall victim to the temptations of Satan. The above mentioned dictators fell victim to Satan in the worst way possible, killing millions of God’s children in the process.
Don’t stop reading, because without this second principle, salvation sounds like a free pass! If you were just worried about being saved from physical death, you might thing you have your cake and eat it too. Not so my friend, because even though you gained immortality, you still have to suffer the consequences of the actions you do not repent for.
Salvation from Sin. To be cleansed from sin through the Savior’s Atonement, an individual must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). Our Church believes that baptism must be done with the proper authority, found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those who have been baptized and have received the Holy Ghost through the proper priesthood authority have been conditionally saved from sin. In this sense, salvation is conditional, depending on an individual’s continuing in faithfulness, or enduring to the end in keeping the commandments of God (see 2 Peter 2:20–22).
One very large difference between the LDS faith and other denominations is that we do not believe that salvation comes by grace alone. “Faith without works is dead,” is a phrase my parents taught me growing up. Through the process of modern revelation we have learned the importance of works. Individuals cannot be saved in their sins; they cannot receive unconditional salvation simply by declaring a belief in Christ with the understanding that they will inevitably commit sins throughout the rest of their lives (see Alma 11:36–37). However, through the grace of God, all can be saved from their sins (see 2 Nephi 25:23; Helaman 5:10–11) as they repent and follow Jesus Christ.
Which means deathbead repentance is out for me.
Exaltation
Exaltation is the promise of eternal life. And I’m not just talking the kind of eternal life where you sit around in a stadium shaped like a rose and sing praises to God for the rest of eternity (I love the Divina Commedia!). Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, “This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39) Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God’s presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like salvation, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Nephi emphasized that after we have entered this “strait and narrow path,” we must endure to the end in faith:
“After ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
“Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life” (2 Nephi 31:19–20).
After we are baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, much of our progress toward eternal life depends on our receiving other ordinances of salvation: for men, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood; for men and women, the temple endowment and marriage sealing. When we receive these ordinances and keep the covenants that accompany them, we prepare ourselves to inherit eternal life.
I don’t like ending on such a sour note, but it only made sense for me to end with damnation!
Damnation
So mormons don’t believe in “hell”, in the sense that people who go to good things go to a place called heaven and become angels, and people who do bad things to go hell and swim around in a lake of fire with devils holding pitchforks over their heads. But then what does all this talk of damnation mean?
The Bible alludes to the idea that hell is only a temporary place of suffering (it’s a part of the Spirit World). David is promised that his soul would not remain in hell (see Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:27, 31), and it was promised that others as well would be delivered from spirit prison (see Isa. 49:8–9; John 5:25). This, in fact, happened when Christ opened the doors of hell to missionary work among the dead. (See 1 Pet. 3:18–19; 1 Pet. 4:6; D&C 138:6–37.)
Exltation, or eternal life, mean eternal progression. Damnation means just the opposite, being eternally stopped. So if you don’t repent of your sins, you are eternally stuck in the same state. If you repent of your sins, you are not damned, but granted eternal life.
Also:
I'm a farm-raised almost-crunchy stroller-pushing picture-taking lifestyle-blog-writing gastronomy-obsessed divine-seeking thrift-store-combing cheese-inhaling pavement-pounding laughter-sprinkling lover of individuality and taking chances.
“No one has to go to hell because they never heard of Jesus Christ! Babies don’t have to burn in hell because they weren’t baptized!”
That is not precisely what other Christians believe. We are not God, so we cannot judge everyone on an individual basis. God can decide whether the pygmies (for example) will go to Heaven or Hell- that is His decision.
Also, being “saved” does not mean that you are going to Heaven. It means that you have the choice of going to Heaven. Where you end up after this life, is dependent on the choices you make. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself for us so that we would have the possibility to “make that choice”.
“We all lived together with God before we were born, every single soul who has come, and will ever come to the earth.”
There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (John 1.18; 3.13,31; 8.23,58).
“One very large difference between the LDS faith and other denominations is that we do not believe that salvation comes by grace alone.”
Thank goodness (seriously). I have such a hard time every week explaining this to my Protestant friends at Bible study. I’m Roman Catholic, by the way.
In response to “Exaltation”:
We define salvation according to what we are saved from. We are saved from sin and from the wages of sin — death. To be saved from sin is to be justified and sanctified. To be saved from death is to receive eternal life (Rom. 6. 22, 23). Being saved, justified, sanctified and given eternal life by the grace of God are all things which are interconnected in the scriptures. There is no biblical basis for separating them (Rom. 5th). Seeking exaltation is contrary to the spirit of Christ. We are rather to humble ourselves, recognize our sinfulness and call upon the Lord for mercy and forgiveness (James 4. 6-10).
I asked you in the other post: “If Mormonism is a Christian religion, why do you not read the Bible?”
I will follow that up with another question: If Mormonism is a Christian religion, why do you not believe that other Christian baptisms are valid, as all other Christian denominations believe?
Sophia Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:08 am
Lisa-
Not sure if Jenna answered your question about the Bible in that other post, please ignore if so but Mormons do read the Bible. Most of my Mormon friends (and myself, though I’m not Mormon) have what’s called a quad, which is a book that contains 4 (hence the quad) collections of scripture- the King James version of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and two other Mormon scriptures called the Doctrine & Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price.
My Mormon friends went to seminary (scripture study) Mon-Fri for an hour each morning all 4 years of high school, and the scriptures were studied on a schedule in addition to three hours of Church every Sunday. That’s a lot of Bible reading over the years
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:17 am
OK, thanks for the clarification.
Evelyn Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 am
Hi Lisa,
You brought up some interesting differences in the LDS and Roman Catholic understanding of these principles… but I thought I would respond to the question you posed at the end. I’m not Jenna, but hopefully that’s ok. =)
In response to your second question, I would remind you of Jenna’s post on Joseph Smith and The Restoration wherein she mentioned authority. We believe that after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the authority to act in his name-and perform ordinances like baptism-was left with the apostles. The Great Apostasy refers to the time after the apostles were killed because with them went the authority from God to administer ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism. Of course, that doesn’t mean people stopped believing in Christ or stopped performing the ordinances. Unfortunately, it does mean that the ordinances which were performed were done without the proper authority to do them.
We believe the proper authority to perform baptism was restored through Joseph Smith and hadn’t been on the earth since the days of the early apostles of Jesus Christ. So, essentially, when someone who was baptized into another church decides to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they are baptized because their previous baptism was done without the proper authority.
R Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:26 pm
“The Great Apostasy refers to the time after the apostles were killed because with them went the authority from God to administer ordinances of the gospel, such as baptism.”
Wait. So you think that Paul didn’t have authority either? I had no idea you thought that things went badly so quickly. I guess that explains the Trinity disagreement, but don’t you accept the KJV, including Paul?
Evelyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
R-From your comment below I know you know we, “Mormons”, believe the Bible is the word of God… so I’m not sure why you asked this question… =)
Yes, we believe Paul had authority. He was baptized by one who had authority (Acts 9:18).
The Trinity disagreement is probably most simply explained by the formation and adoption of the Nicene Creed as doctrine.
Katy Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm
You said: “There is no biblical support for the idea that human beings were spirit children of God in heaven before coming to earth. Jesus was unique in being a human being with a pre-human existence (John 1.18; 3.13,31; 8.23,58).”
Just to point out some scriptures that I was always shown (by parents, teachers, and in my own study) where God reminds us that He knew us before we came to the this earth (the pre-existence).
The favorite: Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee…”
Others: Ephesians 1:4 where Paul tells the Saints that “…he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world…”
There are many others (oh yeah, Romans 8:29), but those are the most reached for by me. I don’t mean to Bible banter back and forth, but merely to point out something that we so easily accept not only because that is what we are told by leaders and discuss, but also because God makes it pretty clear to us in the Bible that He knew us before the world began (and some he foreordained to do some mighty things).
I suppose it’s in part because this doctrine is so easy for me to accept and because I accepted it so long ago, but it makes perfect sense to me that if we have a soul or spirit-one that leaves us after our bodies die-it’s only natural that it existed before our bodies existed as well. It wasn’t as if- poof - magically my spirit/soul came about with no fore-creation before birth. It just wouldn’t make sense to me that the ability or ‘magic’ (for lack of a better term) of souls existing after death would be so one-sided. It either eternal and has existed before and will continue after death, or, it exists in neither context.
I hope you are satisfied with all those that have assured you that we do indeed believe in, love, and read the Bible. (if you read back in the history of Joseph Smith, some wonderful passages from the Bible are what led him to pray to God, namely James 1:5 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God…”)
Sophia Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
I’m not Mormon, but my father believed in our souls pre-existing co-eternally with God, and taught us those beliefs, so to me the pre-existence always made a lot of sense. I always thought it was a beautiful sentiment.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:25 am
God is outside of time; He also knows what will happen to us in the future. God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. God can say ““Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee…” because He knew our whole lives at any given point in time. However, this does not directly imply that we actually existed beforehand. It only means that He knew us, because He did. But we didn’t know Him.
This may be a difficult concept to understand- how could something be outside of time? But that is the frame of reference from which God sees the universe.
Evelyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Hi Lisa,
If we did not know God before we received life on this earth, how is it that we are able to find Him now? And I guess I mean, how is it we have a desire to even seek after Him? How is it that a child, never taught about a higher power has the natural inclination to wonder and seek after Him?
I truly and earnestly believe that we knew Him before we came to this earth and it is, in part, that relationship we had with him before that inclines us to seek after Him in this mortal life. We knew Him. We knew and tasted of His love then, which is why it is so sweet to us now.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Again, the reason is that God is outside of time. God lives in “eternity”, but not “infinity”. There is a big difference. Our souls are “eternal”, but they do not exist “infinitely”. God formed all souls at once, in eternity with him, but when conception takes place God forms the human and places the soul in the body. Only then do we live “in time”. There is no past, present, or future in eternity. God exists outside of time. Our souls exist outside of time at all times, except when they are in the living body.
Let me continue Jeremiah 1:5- “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you.”
MrsW Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:06 am
” just wouldn’t make sense to me that the ability or ‘magic’ (for lack of a better term) of souls existing after death would be so one-sided. It either eternal and has existed before and will continue after death, or, it exists in neither context. ”
I don’t understand this. How could our souls be eternal “both ways”, so to speak, and still be created by God? Or do Mormons not believe that God created us? I seem to remember vaguely learning once that there was a Mormon belief of God being just another soul from some other world who was good enough in his mortal life to be given his own planet to run. This was a very long time ago, though, in a class where I was learning about a lot of different, um, “alternative Christian systems” (I won’t call your religion a cult on your blog, that seems rude), so I might be confusing this with something else.
Another question I have is from this paragraph of Jenna’s post:
“Some Christians accuse Latter-day Saints who give this answer of denying the grace of God through claiming they can earn their own salvation. We answer this accusation with the words of two Book of Mormon prophets.”
I *still* don’t understand why I am expected to accept your beliefs as the true when you can’t quote them to me from the Scriptures I believe in, with words from your scriptures that completely contradict the Bible. Look at the contrast here:
“For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do”” 2 Ne. 25:23
contrasted against
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: *Not of works*, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9 (emphasis mine)
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to sound confrontational.. but the last time I commented on a Sunday post, I asked for a question of clarification on something and asked you to stick to the traditional Bible for your scripture references, and you told me that there was no way you could do that, it would be like asking me to explain something without using the New Testament. Except that Jesus Himself explained Christianity to unbelievers using only the Old Testament (Luke 24:25-27). The Apostles did this as well, and Paul commended the believers at Berea for “searching the Scriptures” for proof of Jesus. I don’t believe that the Old Testament is complete in itself, but I DO believe that if someone who only believed in the Old Testament came to me and asked me why, from their Scriptures, should they believe in Christ, I would be able to tell them. Yes, I would reference events recorded in the New Testament, but only as a confirmation of prophecies found in the Old Testament, just as the Apostle Matthew did all through his Gospel.
I don’t mean to be rude, I honestly do enjoy your posts as a good mental workout. My husband and I take very seriously that we love the Lord with our minds as well as with our hearts, souls, and strengths, so it sharpens my faith and understanding to compare it to what you say about yours.
Oh, and as a PS… my denomination (Presbyterian) does accept almost all baptisms I can think of… adult, child, whichever.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 am
I agree with you, for the most part.
One thing I do know about LDS is that they believe in “infinite regression”, i.e. that there was never a “first God”. (Highly contradictory to Christian religions, by the way).
However, there is no way to cross an infinite distance or pass an infinite amount of time, so there would be no way to get to “now” and to “us” from an infinite past. (Again, this is a difficult concept to understand, but it shows that the Mormon concept of infinite regression just does not make sense.)
I agree with you on your last point as well! Apologetics is a great mental workout and a good way to strengthen (or weaken, if you happen to be wrong) your faith!
TH Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Lisa,
Not sure if I can answer the breadth your comments but I’ll try : )
My favorite biblical verse about the pre-existence is Job 38:1-7. *However* that verse is not the reason why the LDS church believes the pre-existence. We believe it because it was revealed through modern day prophets. We believe in the Bible as far as it was translated correctly, but we also believe that God continues to reveal things to us. If my understanding is correct, the Catholic church actually also believes similarly in the “closed-canon” sense. I.e. the pope and the cardinals can re-interpret the scriptures or “make them dormant” (e.g. the Catholic church does not practice baptisms for the dead despite 1 Cor 15:29). And truly, the truth is either with the Catholic church continued from St. Peter (which gives the pope full right to interpret scriptures) or it had to be restored by God and Christ calling new prophets and apostles.
You mentioned eternity and infinity. The meaning of eternity in English is simply infinite time. If I understand correctly, you interpret it as being outside of time, which is very different. While it is difficult for our minds to grasp eternity (the infinity of time), Latter-day Saints understand it as meaning that after every tomorrow there will be another tomorrow, and conversely, before every yesterday there was another yesterday. Because everything is finite on this Earth, this is a very difficult concept to grasp. So both the Mormon concept of eternity and the one you brought up (eternity being outside of time) make no sense to our finite minds, but this doesn’t prove either one false.
Lisa Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Thanks for the response!
Referring to the end of the first paragraph, are you saying that either Catholicism is right OR Mormonism is right?
About the eternity vs. infinity question…
As I was trying to convey before, eternity exists outside of time. It has the same meaning as infinity, except infinity is in relation to time, and eternity is outside of time. St. Augustine wrote that time exists only within the created universe, so that God exists outside of time; for God there is no past or future, but only an eternal present.
Again, this is difficult to comprehend, and perhaps my physics background is helping me to understand it, so hopefully you can too.
TH Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
Lisa,
Yes, if you believe that one needs authority from God that is given by Him and not just claimed, then either Catholicism is right (the continuation of authority) or Mormonism (the restoration of authority) or at least a religion that claims to restore it. If the Catholic church is right, then that’s it, but if it’s wrong, then it’s not enough for smart men to try to fix it or reform it.
About eternity, I actually also have some physics background, and there is strong support for a theory that the Big Bang did not begin time, and the birth and death of universes is infinite (both into the future and past). Your point, however, is more of an English question, because you interpret eternity as being outside of time, which is not what the word means in the English language. Now, I actually think it’s fair to say “this is how the Catholic church interprets the meaning of “eternity” in the scriptures,” but it must be noted that the church is then invoking its right to interpret scripture outside of its literal meaning. Literally, eternity means infinity of time, and that’s how the LDS faith understands it.
Lisa Reply:
March 25th, 2009 at 10:53 am
TH,
I can say the same thing about the LDS church. How could you have chosen then between the two? That may be a personal question, so you can refrain from answering it if you wish, or answer it in an e-mail.
I agree with you. The currently accepted value of the density parameter is greater than unity (approximately 1.02) which signifies a finite universe which will eventually collapse. However, that does not directly imply that the universe will expand again. It also does not imply that there existed an intelligent civilization (humans) at any other time. But, that is no problem for God, since God is outside of time. I am also wondering if the LDS church believes that God knows everything that will happen to us, and if it is a monotheistic or polytheistic religion. I am confused with the idea that God was once a man and before him was another God, etc. It doesn’t make sense to have more than one omnipotent being. And that is certainly not a Christian idea.
Yes, that is how the Catholic Church interprets eternity. However, we also have to remember that the Bible was not written in the English language. There are many limitations to the English language when compared to the older languages (Hebrew and Greek) which the Bible was written in. There also arise many problems when translating to English (hence, why Protestants and Catholics use different English translations of the Bible). I simply cannot base my understanding of scripture on the English definition of words, because they are simply not good enough to represent what was originally intended by the writer.
Lisa Reply:
March 25th, 2009 at 10:57 am
*** I would also like to add that I am aware that some books of the Bible were written in other old languages, but the majority was written in Hebrew and Greek, which is why I cite the two.
R Reply:
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Lisa, I’m a Catholic so I share a lot of concerns about LDS teaching. But I also wanted to let you know that your questions aren’t quite fair.
“If Mormonism is a Christian religion, why do you not read the Bible?”
What makes you think that she does not? She quotes from it.
“If Mormonism is a Christian religion, why do you not believe that other Christian baptisms are valid, as all other Christian denominations believe?”
Many Protestant denominations believe that you must be baptized by immersion once you are old enough to “consent” for yourself. They have no problem re-baptizing those who were baptized in other churches. Also, some Orthodox Churches reject all baptisms that took place in other churches because they do not find them valid.
The Catholic Church is actually fairly alone in its maintenance of the long-standing Christian teaching (going back to St. Augustine and the Donatists) that the important thing is the baptism itself, not the person/Church doing the baptizing.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:34 am
Sorry, my question about reading the Bible was based on limited information, that is why it sounds rude but I was really just inquiring. I have never read the Book of Mormon, so I assumed all quotes Jenna used were from there.
Protestants encourage re-baptism, only because of their misguided view of baptism. However, Protestants do not believe that I will go to Hell- simply because I was indeed baptized and confirmed in a Christian church.
mhb Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:42 am
To be fair, I think Jenna is quite clear about citing her sources - some are from The Old and New Testament, and some are from the Book of Mormon and D&C - and she provides links to the passages.
The above comments make me wonder: are the Book of Mormon and D&C two separate volumes?
Evelyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Yes, the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants are separate volumes. When a member purchases their own scriptures they are bound together, so they appear as though one, but are not.
I am currently living in Kazakhstan and the only people who have their BoM and D&C in one volume take their two volumes to a shop and pay to have it done.
“After we are baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, much of our progress toward eternal life depends on our receiving other ordinances of salvation.”
Could you possibly elaborate on this? I have read that if a LDS woman is not sealed (in the event that Mr. Right doesn’t come along), then she is not eligible to progress to a different level of heaven. Is this true? I have also read that the man is the priesthood holder, not the woman; how does this effect a woman’s progress towards obtaining eternal life?
It sounds like what you are saying is that the endowment and the sealing is necessary to obtaining eternal life-please correct me if I am misundertanding!
I am a very liberal Christian, so there is much to the LDS faith I do not agree with, but I love the idea of everyone being “saved.” I agree completely!
2It’s always interesting to read your Sunday posts for me - as I am an agnostic atheist (that means though I personally do not believe in a God or higher power, I do not deny the possibility of their existence) engaged to what I can only describe as a hard-core atheist.
You explain your beliefs and the structure of them in a very well thought out way. I have no comments, arguments, or questions about this specific topic, but I do have a respect for you for sharing your beliefs out here on the internet, and opening yourself up so eloquently.
To me, it is always interesting to see your opinion and beliefs as a member of the LDS faith, especially because it so often seems cloaked in mystery, and there is such a backlash to it.
So from an almost atheist to you: I’m glad you’re back after a break last week.
3At the very core of me, I cannot wrap my head around your belief that everyone is saved. I do not believe that. Take one of the most common biblical verses ever- John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM (emphasis mine) shall not perish but have eternal life”. That one crucial verse sums up my belief: In order to ascend to heaven, you must knowingly accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ’s death. Those who do not make the choice are eternally separated from God (my explanation of hell). For me, this nullifies much of the belief of salvation, exaltation, and damnation present in the LDS church. Thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough post on these topics! I do usually have objections (sorry!) however, I think your openness and willingness to share is quite admirable!
Evelyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Isn’t it sad to think that our brothers and sisters who are now, have been, or will be on this earth, but live in areas where the name of Christ is not known are “damned”?
Because God loved us so much that he sent his only Begotten Son to live a perfect life, suffer for our sins in the Garden of Gethsemane, be scourged, beaten, and led like a lamb to the slaughter and cross, I cannot accept that He would only allow the sacrifice of His Son to be for a select “few” (Christians make up just about 33% of all world religions, in a world made of roughly 6.7 billion people).
MrsW Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Yes, it is sad. It is sad because all of us chose to turn away from God. This is where a lot of people are not going to like me anymore… but we ALL DESERVE damnation. We really do. It’s sad, yes, for us, but from God’s perspective, it’s His right, because we chose to turn away from Him. I think a lot of people forget that the way this whole lost/saved thing goes is not “God running after poor oblivious lost souls” but “God catching souls who have run away from Him.”
In Romans (1:18-30), it says that we all have knowledge of God, but we suppress that truth in unrighteousness, and are without excuse. Now, I don’t believe that this indicates that there was some sort of pre-mortal existence in which we knew God, but rather that we are “hard-wired” to worship something (look around, everyone does, even atheists) whether it is God, another person, money, ourselves, knowledge, an idea of “being a good person”, whatever. We have, as I believe C.S. Lewis said (correct me if I’m wrong) a “God-shaped hole” in our hearts, and there is enough evidence out there, outside of the Bible even, to push us towards looking for a Creator who loves us and wants to have a relationship with us. When we don’t pursue that, it is our own choice, and God has no obligation to save those who refuse to acknowledge Him. It’s a really difficult thing to accept, but I believe it’s the truth. A good Bible proof for this is Romans 9 (can you tell Romans is my favorite book? :)) where Paul even struggles with the sadness of this idea. Yes, it is tragic. That is why it is so beautiful to have received the truth, to have had God pick you up from your mad dash away from Him, turn you around and cause you to look at Him face-to-face, and why it is SO important to share the Gospel, to try to lessen this tragedy that humanity has imposed upon itself.
Well, now… I suppose I’ll don my asbestos suit now that I’ve revealed myself as a hardcore Calvinist.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I agree with you!
God doesn’t send people to Hell; people *choose* to turn away from God!
kaitlyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:57 pm
This would have been my answer exactly s I’ll just say to MrsW: Amen sister, do you have a spare suit?
MrsW Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Thanks for the support.
I think I might have another one laying around somewhere… I’ve never been very popular for believing in total depravity. 
Jenna Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 12:07 am
I don’t think you answered the question though MrsW (because I am very curious to know the answer). How do you explain what will happen to all of the people who never even have the opportunity to hear of Christ? People who lived a long time ago in remote parts of the world. People who live now in remote parts of the world. People who lived good lives, doing good things, being humble, righteous, caring, selfless, essentially “Christ-like” people who don’t ever hear the name “Christ” in their entire lives and so can never accept him as their Savior?
What about a culture of Buddhists, who never ever hear about the Christian religion in any way, shape or form, and die after living very good lives? What happens to them because they weren’t saved after accepting Christ as their Savior?
MrsW Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Sorry, I thought I had been clear… I was responding, “Yes, it is sad,” to Evelyn’s “Isn’t it sad to think that our brothers and sisters who are now, have been, or will be on this earth, but live in areas where the name of Christ is not known are “damned”?”
To make it uber clear: Those who do not follow Christ go to hell. I think this is a fundamental difference in our beliefs… I don’t think that anything that we can do merits any sort of salvific favor from God at all. It seems rather fundamental to Mormon theology (from what I have picked up from your blog) that you believe that your good works save you. I believe it was either Isaiah or Jeremiah that said “all our righteousness is as filthy rags,” with the literal Hebrew being “menstrual rags.” Knowing what the OT purity laws were concerning a woman’s period, it is pretty significant that our righteous acts are compared to them. I fundamentally, in the core of my being believe that human beings, while they are capable of good acts, are not capable of being AS good, AS holy, AS righteous as God is… and that is the only way that we could merit our salvation. Following Adam’s choice to turn away from God, all of his descendants now by default are turned away, incapable of doing anything good enough to wash away that first stain. Original sin is and always will be heavier than any human righteousness. THAT is why I believe Christ came, because no one else could save us. Christ, who was both fully God and fully man, was righteous enough because of His Godhood, and able to die because He was also a man, our brother.
Therefore, if no one else can save us, then He is our only hope.
I think I’ve covered everything you asked now.
Sophia Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 10:45 am
So, basically, you believe that God is all knowing, and would knowingly have his children be born into poor remote Amazon forests and Mongolian plains or backwoods China, and they would still burn in hell because they didn’t follow Christ? Even though they had never had the chance?
Even my most devout, by the letter Christian friends don’t believe that. I can understand (even though I don’t believe it) the idea of someone knowing of Christ, not following Him, and being damned. But the idea that an all powerful God knowingly allows people to be born into places where they will never hear of God only to be damned to eternal torture in hell makes God seem pretty sadistic in my mind. What is the point of creating people just to funnel them through an earth life straight into the fire?? This is a sincere question.
MrsW Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 11:33 am
My pastor actually mentioned something on Sunday that applies really well to this post.. he said “We aren’t God’s children just by virtue of being born on this earth. We are God’s children because He adopted us through the death of His Son.”
I have addressed this issue already in an earlier comment, please look back to the paragraph that begins “In Romans (1:18-30),”…
Paul goes on in Romans 9… really the whole chapter is very good, so I’ll just link to it:
http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=romans+9&src=esv.org
Especially notice verses 18-24. “Who are you, O man, to answer back to God?” I know it doesn’t seem fair to us. And please don’t think that because I believe this I must be heartless or sadistic or one of those smug Christians who believes that they are saved because they are better. I just really believe that as hard as it is to understand (humans tend to believe we are the center of the universe), we are so very very unimportant compared to God. I think it is amazing that He created the world, not sadistic… because He stooped down so far, just to give us the chance to live and to come to know Him.
Maybe I’m wrong. Actually, I do indeed pray to God that I’m wrong, and that in His wisdom and mystery somehow this works differently. And I struggle constantly with whether unborn children or infants who die without knowledge go to hell… or people who are developmentally challenged enough that they can’t understand Christianity. I pray for and support missionaries to these “backwoods” places you mentioned, even thought about becoming one myself (maybe I still will someday).
God is more merciful than I should have dared to dream by saving ANYONE at all… so maybe I’m wrong. But the Scriptures seem pretty clear to me, and I can’t remake God in my image.
kaitlyn Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Hm. I’ll put my two cents in here anyways then, if it offers a bit more clarity. I’ll be concise, because the major theological arguments have already been made.
In short, the Bible presents itself to those like Mrs. W and I that there is not any excuse not to believe in Jesus Christ, other than our PERSONAL ignorance and unrighteousness. That answer sucks- I know. If I didn’t believe as strongly as I do, I’d be a humanist because I want all “good” people to go to Heaven. However, we ALL fall short of a perfect God.
I became a Christian at 19- I’m 20 now. A trying time in my conversion was understanding WHY there are people in such distant (from me) places that may never know the grace of God.
Yet, salvation is not a fundamental human right. It is a gift by the grace of God, quite literally. It is simply a Christian’s duty to spread the gospel of Truth wherever they may.
That is why there are Christian missionaries in poor Mexican towns, Middle-Eastern countries, and Africa.
Yet, as Mrs W said- it is simply our unrighteousness that prevents us from not knowing God.
I think in some way this will be accounted for on the Day of Judgment. I believe that those who did not obey the Biblical command to spread the Good News will be judged accordingly. For if there is one thing I do agree with the Mormons about, it is that if we accept Christ’s sacrifice without following God’s commands, we will surely perish on that day.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Since God is gracious, those who have never heard of Christ are not damned; rather, they are justifiably ignorant.
Of course, God would have to judge their lives somehow. This is where natural law comes in. [Read here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09076a.htm if you don’t know what that is].
Wow.. This is the first elaboration of the LDS faith that I’ve ever read. It was actually very eye-opening.. Between my Southern Baptist upbringing (I’m nonpracticing nondenominational now) and media references and depictions of the LDS faith, I guess I had a very different perception of it, even though I never consciously gave it much thought. I feel like I’ve learned something good today!
5Thanks for the Sunday post Jenna- I think you did a great job of tackling such a big subject in such a readable and engaging way
6Oh, and for anyone else interested in the idea of universal salvation, check out http://www.tentmaker.org.
It isn’t a Mormon site, but the research they have done into the original Hebrew is fascinating, and provides a lot of interesting insight into the modern Biblical concept of hell, and where it came from.
7With all due respect, ladies, why not stop the quibbling over the specifics and go find a soup kitchen to volunteer at? Or an elderly lady to sit with…or a student to tutor….
I’m pretty sure that’s what Jesus would do.
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:10 am
Jesus preached the Christian faith to many people.
He also had His 12 apostles do the same after His Resurrection. The apostles also traveled the world trying to convert people.
We are not “quibbling over the specifics”, because these “specifics” that you speak of are actually vast differences.
R Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Why must we chose between orthopraxy (in this context serving in a soup kitchen etc.) and orthodoxy? I know of very few people who can serve 24-7 without becoming burnt out.
Also, Jesus took plenty of time to dispute in the temple and off the top of my head I can’t think of stories of him doing “nice things” for people without also lacing them with religious exhortation.
Honestly, if there is not a deep devotion to Truth (whatever one believes it to be) behind one’s works, it is pretty close to worthless.
MrsW Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 pm
To put the old saying on its head, works without faith is dead.
Sophia Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Angela-
Because we find it interesting to discuss our differences and similarities. Because doing so helps us understand one another. And because that is the point of Jenna’s Sunday posts, and why a lot of us come here. It is rare to find a respectful forum in which to discuss differences of religious belief, and I think a lot of people find it refreshing.
mhb Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I appreciate the challenge, Angela, for anyone in this thread who might be merely “quibbling”, but I have to agree with Sophia, Lisa, Mrs W, and R here, that this is just as important.
In my life, faith has led to works, which have led to more questioning/discussion/study of my faith, which has moved me to get more involved in works. Each enriches the other.
*giggles @ angela*
i just wanted to say that i’m non-denominational, but i’ve always had a hard time when people ask, “but what if someone has never heard of Jesus Christ? do they just automatically go to Hell? how is that fair?” and at least “salvation for everyone,” allows some hope for those people. that’s why many Christians witness so hurriedly and excitedly - (evangelists, for example) because they are scared of people not hearing the word of God & going to Hell - something i’ve never agreed with or understood.
i also don’t think everyone goes to Heaven because on the cross, Jesus looked at one of the criminals and said he would be with him in Heaven - he didn’t look at the other one and say that. why wouldn’t he if he knew he would also end up in Heaven?
lastly - i also really like your idea of Hell. a lot. i’ve always imagined it in a similar fashion - not necessarily TORTURE TORTURE TORTURE physically as torture in the sense that you are stopped & incomplete & never fulfilled beyond all this.
great post! my favorite one yet!
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:15 am
Evangelists, specifically, do that because that is part of who they are- evangelism is attempting to convert people to a religion.
Most Protestant denominations believe in “Salvation by Faith Alone” (as Jenna stated, LDS do not believe this). They believe that you must be “re-born” and dedicate your whole lives to the Lord, and proclaim your belief in him, be baptized, and then you will achieve eternal life (we had many arguments in Bible study about why this is very faulty). This is also why they do not have infant baptism, because an infant is not able to choose.
Two questions unrelated to this post, but they came to me just now:
1) Are there plans to update the Book of Mormon into more modern English? I often get lost in the language. Do you? And also I have noticed that all the scripture from the Bible on the LDS website is the KJV. I wasn’t sure if there was a reason for this or not.
2) Where might I find or will you talk about the historical chronology of the Book of Mormon?
OK…so that was like 188 questions.
Oops.
AnnieBelle Reply:
March 24th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Kristin I also agree - it’s a very 19th century text that (for me) can be hard to read. I read that the phrase “and it came to pass” appears over 200 times in the BOM. But then the Bible can be laborious to read also. But I too would be interested to know about “versions” of the BOM.
Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
1)No plans to update the Book of Mormon. The 8th article of faith states “We believe the Bible to be the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the world of God.” The reason the “as far as it is translated correctly” clause is added to the article of faith is that we believe changes were made to the bible over time, as a results of both errors and deliberate choices. The Book of Mormon was written by the Prophets of Ancient America, and translated by one man, Joseph Smith. We believe that Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of God, and thus his translation was accurate and true. If changes were to be introduced, their would be a chance that the same thing could happen to the BOM as happened to the Bible.
And we do use the KJV of the bible. Although, we do use a supplemented version with corrections made my Joseph Smith to verses that had been changed over time.
2)A post on historical chronology of the BOM? Very interesting. Sure! I don’t want to do one on the historical accuracy of the book (for I believe that is not what will help someone gain a testimony), but asking about the historical chronology is a different matter entirely.
Hello everyone,
First off, Jenna, thanks for elucidating how LDS members view those key concepts. It’s interesting how we use similar words but mean very different things by them.
For the Protestants and Catholics, I just wanted to express the grace-works relationship that I understand (I was raised conservative Baptist, and have attended EV-Free, Christian and Missionary Alliance, Southern Baptist, and Anglican churches). Ephesians 2:8-9 is the crux of the “saved by grace” idea, that we cannot possibly be good enough or do anything worthy enough to earn salvation. It is God who broke through time and space to make things right between himself and humankind, through Christ’s death and resurrection. The emphasis is truly on God’s power and Christ’s all-sufficient sacrifice, not anything we could do.
This is the most utterly amazing part of all of protestant christianity, I think-this concept of undeserved favor that God gave us. All we have to do is believe it to be saved.
That said, there are plenty of biblical passages that speak to the idea of works. These are not works FOR salvation’s sake, but they come FROM salvation, if that makes sense. Once we understand and believe the magnitude of Christ’s sacrifice, we should be grateful and be compelled to want to serve Him. It is abundantly clear in all of the Bible, from the law to the prophets, to Christ’s life and ministry, that God has a heart for the poor, the widow, the orphan, and those in pain or hardship. So, if we are truly in a close relationship with God through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (and in the power of his sacrifice), our heart should also break and lead us to action for those same people. Thus, works are not done to earn us salvation, they are a natural response of gratitude for the fact that we do not have to be eternally separated from God.
There’s my understanding of faith/works and grace.
Evelyn Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pm
That makes LOTS of sense. Well said. =)
Lisa Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Let me present you with this situation:
John Smith, 20 years old, truly believes in Christ, commits himself to the Lord, and is baptized in the [Protestant, etc.] church.
At 35 years old he has become unruly, depressed, and is overall unhappy with his life. His unhappiness, he thinks, is due to his wife that cheated on him. So he kills her.
Is he still saved?
My Protestant friends from the Bible study answered with, “That means that he never believed in Christ in the first place.”
That it is a nonsensical reason. So please tell me, is he still saved? Because he was saved by grace at the time of his baptism, was he not?
Kristin Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Firstly, Blythe, thank you for putting into words the sentiment I could not.
Secondly, Lisa, it is my belief that in the situation you described above, John Smith is saved. But let me strongly strongly note that it is only God that can know the hearts of man. I would say that yes, the salvation he had cannot be lost. But only God can the truth about whether he accepted God’s grace.
MrsW Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
I think the key in the example of John Smith is there are two things that none of us can know — the true state of John Smith’s heart, and whether or not God has chosen him. You don’t give an end to the story… maybe Mr. Smith, in his last few moments of life repents and turns back to God, truly sorry for what he’s done? In that case, he’s saved… and he did nothing to influence his salvation one way or another, just lost his walk for a very long time. On the other hand, if he never repents… how do we know that his original belief was genuine? One can display the outward signs, and you can even deceive yourself into believing that you’re saved when you’re not. Many of Christ’s parables in the Gospels feature Him turning away from His kingdom those who believe they should be there. So in a nutshell… we can’t know. But the fruit shows the root.
Blythe Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Hi Lisa,
I’ve been intrigued by your various responses to this particular post and I applaud you also for taking on hard questions.
On a side note, as a Baptist, I don’t see baptism as being absolutely positively necessary for salvation. I have grown up with the understanding that it is an outward sign of inward faith. People get baptized (in the Baptist tradition) as a public confession of the faith they have in Jesus Christ. It is a symbol-and a powerful one at that-but not a saving act. Once again, it’s something that comes FROM salvation, that comes after it.
About John Smith, I agree that your friends’ response doesn’t make sense, in that people are capable of sinning (and DO sin) even after they accept Christ/are baptized. I’ve heard both sides of the argument about ‘loss of salvation’ and different denominations have developed because of this very topic. Some maintain that, after a person chooses to believe in Christ and the sacrifice He made, if they turn their back on this, they are no longer saved.
Others believe that the person is saved by the blood of Christ no matter what they do.
An integral part in being ‘saved’ is recognizing (and being sorry) that you, as a human, have done and said and thought things that have hurt others or yourself, or that have been contrary to the laws of God as expressed in the Bible. We confess that we are thus sinful and separated from God. But we believe that Christ made a way for us to have a relationship with God through His sacrifice on the cross, and when we confess our sins and repent of them, we are forgiven.
Out of gratitude for Christ’s sacrifice, and gratitude that through it I can have a relationship with God, I try to do good ‘works’. Out of that same relationship, I recognize when I’ve done things that have displeased God or hurt others, so I confess and try not to do them again.
But grace enables that confession/
repentance. Grace inspires it. Grace inspires good works, too.
Back to John, ultimately, it’s God’s decision.
I do fall into the once-saved, always-saved category. Confessing and repenting of sins should be another natural byproduct of having a relationship with God-through reading the Bible, praying, etc. I would hope that if John had a relationship with God, he would repent. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9
TH Reply:
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Blythe,
Thank you for your comment - that was a great explanation. What I say below is just my understanding of the LDS view on grace vs. works, so there may be Mormons who will disagree.
To me, the LDS faith teaches that salvation does come by grace and not by works. That is, no matter how good we are, no matter how many good works we have, we will never be able to earn salvation by ourselves - it is a gift we receive from God and Christ. However, we also believe that we will not be saved without good works (“it is by faith that we are saved, after all that we can do”).
Jesus Christ himself said “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matt 7:21) So even though salvation does come by grace alone and not by works as the apostles taught, Christ told us that if we do not do the will of the Father we will not be given this grace.
Back to your explanation Blythe, if I understand correctly, your belief is that grace gives us salvation, and works are a manifestation that you truly received this grace. So in the end, those who are saved are the ones who did the will of the Father, because they are the ones who truly received grace.
I’ve never heard it explained that way (although maybe I’m just not understanding), and I really like it. I think the reason why we phrase it differently in the LDS faith is to avoid confusion for some people. Throughout my life, I have met many Christians who were living in blatant disobedience to Biblical commandments and yet they deeply believed they were “saved” by grace so they didn’t feel any desire to change their ways. Maybe some Latter-day Saints would be similarly confused, so we stress the works to help them “do the will of the Father.”
Hi Jenna!
Thank you for the post - it was very enlightening and interesting to read. There is one thing that has been bugging me, and I hope either you or one of the other readers can help me to understand. You have often mentioned and talked about the different rites men and women go through in the temple, but I was wondering why men are able to take on a priesthood, and women not? Are the two (endowment and ordination into priesthood) equal? Is there a reason why they are different, or is it just down to tradition?
Thanks again for all these posts!
Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:12 pm
You ask a tough question, for which I don’t think there is one right answer.
I can tell you my view, one which I will post on someday.
First, I believe that the ability to bear children is discredited by most people. It’s a remarkable gift that women hold alone. No man can ever, will ever have that ability.
I believe in absolute equality in marriage, and that marriage lasts forever. I believe that I can literally be one with my husband, and that eventually we can be perfected together and be absolutely united in purpose, thought, and deed. With this knowledge, I know I don’t need the priesthood, as my husband has it. He doesn’t need to bear children, because I can. Both are very powerful things, and we each have our separate roles to fulfill, and we can’t do them without each other.
Anna Reply:
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
Jenna,
I was hoping you would do a post detailing the role of women in the Mormon church. I have some questions that I would be most grateful to have answered, and you have always been so patient, gracious, and thorough. Here goes!
1. You detailed (in a different post) the importance of marriage in the Mormon church, and marriage sealing as a critical act in exaltation. Are single men able to achieve CK? How about single women?
2. In the above comment you made it seems that child-bearing is to women what priesthood is to men. Obviously, it would be sin to have children outside of marriage, so does a woman only inherit her “priesthood” through her husband and subsequently having children? Since the priesthood is critical for exaltation, where does this leave single or barren women?
3. How does the Mormon church view divorce?
4. Since there is a Plan, I’m assuming there is also an outline of acceptable and unacceptable acts. Do these acts allow you to pre-determine in which kingdom you will reside in the after-life?
5. You said in a post that your sin is your sin and my sin is my sin. Does that mean that individuals are judged individually? Or, since you are one with your husband, do your acts affect one another and where you will end up in the after-life? Are you judged as a couple? as a family? If you are judged individually and reside in different kingdoms, can you visit each other? If you can visit one another, what is the purpose of the CK, or the three levels for that matter, reserved for the holiest and closest to God (and I assume to preserve the holiness of God)?
I know, ALOT of questions huh?:) My MIL is Mormon, and I have read the BOM, but remain a Christian. I’m just trying to understand some things better, and you have always been patient, thorough, and gracious in your explanations of your faith. Thank you for that!
and Kristin and MrsW-nicely put. (You guys are so much less verbose than me!)
13I haven’t been one to talk on here about my religion (LDS as well), but after reading all of these posts I think something that is clear is that we believe too that if someone has not been presented with the opportunity to learn of Jesus Christ and the true church on this earth that they will be presented it in heaven and it is their decision whichever they choose which will then decide for them where they will end up in heaven. I’m pretty sure God and Jesus Christ will be forgiving to those who have never learned of their true church and will welcome them with open arms if they are willing to join with them.
14I have absolutely LOVED reading this post, Jenna! Thank you for being so open with sharing & so clear in helping others learn and understand! I admire you so much
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