Recently a thread on my post was hijacked and turned into a debate about the “Fat Acceptance” movement. (FYI I’m actually okay with threadjacking on my blog. It incites interesting discussion, and with my embedded comments it’s very easy to follow along!)
I spent a lot of time thinking about this movement, and I realized something. Mankind needs a predator. If this were the case, no one would argue for being overweight, out of shape, or the opportunity to be accepted as “who they are” etc, because as they opened their mouth to do so, they would be dead. I would most certainly be dead if we had a predator, as I’m in the worst shape of my life right now.
Harsh, isn’t it. But as a species we have somehow convinced ourselves that the rules of nature don’t apply to us. We have breathing tubes and respirators, machines to restart the heart, and machines to keep us alive when we are 99% dead. We are reaching after immortality, and we’re determined to have it whether we’ve earned it or not. Remember the concept of natural selection? I do. And the birds, bats, lions, hyenas, giraffes, elephants, minnows, hippos, and penguins do.
Why don’t you see more Zebras like this?
Because Zebras know that letting their body reach such a state would result in an inability to escape when attacked. Just go ahead and watch Planet Earth, you’ll see this scene replayed over and over.
Guess what? Life wasn’t better when I looked like this. And I don’t believe it is for anyone else either.
I’ll be writing more on this topic this week. Do you believe in the concept of Healthy At Every Size?
April 20th, 2009 on 3:17 pm
Honestly? I don’t believe in it. I think your post is 100% dead on. Sure, there are people who have genetic disorders that contribute to them being overweight, but that isn’t the norm. Physicians, medical studies and the vast majority of people’s experience show that being a healthy weight is…healthier than being overweight. I just finished a book called Eat to Live and I think the message within it is amazing. I really encourage everyone to read it.
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Christiana Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Oh, and I think Mankind does have a predator, several in fact. They’re called cancer, heart disease and diabetes. Yet for some reason human continue to eat way too much fat, salt and sugar. Go figure..
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mrsgilmore Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
i concur, however our predators are quiet and sneaky and highly avoidable.
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April 20th, 2009 on 3:28 pm
i think you are spot on in this instance (and many others as well). i may not be the heaviest i’ve ever been in my life, however i’m not in optimal shape. if i had something to fear (besides the unexpected bill or a run on chapstick) i’m sure i’d make it a priority to be in tip top shape.
on a moderately related side note, when i asked if my dog was at a healthy weight my vet told me 20-40% of dogs in the u.s. are overweight. dogs. animals that live to run and play. the american acceptance of obesity is taking over at an alarming rate. i view it as animal cruelty, though quite mild. my dog, btw, is at a perfect weight.
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Katy Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Not to totally change the subject…just a quick book recommendation based on your dog examples…I just read Cesar’s Way by Cesar Milan (he’s the one with that TV show) and he has such an interesting outlook on us Americans and how we treat our dogs in America - - I totally believe what your vet said, especially after reading Cesar’s book. If you haven’t read it, I recommend it (it’s a pretty easy, interesting read).
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mrsgilmore Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:59 am
i’ve read it. and loved it.
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Becky (rksquared) Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
I would venture to guess that a lot of those overweight dogs are owned by overweight people.
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mrsgilmore Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:00 pm
i would venture to say you are correct in many cases. my parent’s dog is the same age as mine (about 2) and nearing obesity. no surprise, my parents could also skip a few meals.
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April 20th, 2009 on 3:55 pm
I think the problem gets muddled by things like BMI. According to those BMI charts, I’ve never been at my “correct” weight, but everyone in my family (including my triathlete sister and backpacking dad) is “too heavy” according to those charts.
However, when I’m in great shape, my weight is about 5 pounds above the optimal weight on the BMI chart. Not 50 or 80 pounds. I know that for whatever reason (bone density? Extra large gluteous maximus? Who knows?) I’m always “overweight” by those charts, but I’ve felt myself let my thoughts run along the slippery slope:
‘BMI charts don’t take “real people” into consideration, therefore, I’ll ignore my BMI because it’s unrealistic.’
That’s a dangerous way to think, and I think it can lead to being fat and being defensive about being fat.
A healthier way to look at it is in terms of fitness, I think. When I’m actually fit (meaning: I can run/bike a long distance or dance hard for an hour or do aerobics for an hour, etc), I don’t think about my weight. I also have more energy, I sleep better, I don’t get sick as often and I tend to be in a better mood. I have never felt “healthy” when I’ve been at my heaviest.
So, in short, I do think people are naturally of different sizes, which complicates matters, but I don’t believe in “healthy at ANY size”, because some sizes just aren’t healthy.
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Christiana Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Also, I just wanted to pipe in that most BMI calculators and Doctors that I’ve spoken with don’t view a person’s BMI as the end all be all of a person’s health. It’s merely a tool in the health arsenal. The limitations of the BMI are clearly presented that it’s not applicable to intense athletes or older people. Assessing your risk is a multi-step process, one piece can’t give anyone a complete picture of their health. Here is a link I’ve found helpful in the past. http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/obesity/lose_wt/risk.htm
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Cristin Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Here here! Haven’t read to the bottom of the comments yet - but I love MHB and Christiana’s.
BMI is NOT the absolute word on the subject… its an indicator!
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mrsgilmore Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:05 pm
i also concur. i’ve been at my correct bmi. at such a weight my hair falls out, my skin grays and i’m so bony i can’t sit on a hard chair. however, that doesn’t mean i should be 5 points away from that correct bmi. only one or two.
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April 20th, 2009 on 4:01 pm
It pains me to see people that use the electric shopping carts at the stores because they are just too heavy to walk. I think it is sad that people let their bodies and health go like that. I know some people have disorders and diseases, but that’s beside the point. I don’t agree with the statement “healthy at ANY size” because how can you say you are healthy if you need that type of assistance just to shop at the store?
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Amanda W Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
It is true however, that just because you are skinny doesn’t necessarily mean that you are more fit than someone that is bigger. All of our bodies are made differently but our bodies were not made to carry around a bunch of excess fat.
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Kelli Nicole Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:00 am
You’re right, it goes both ways. I know someone who is so skinny and her bmi is so low that she can’t get life insurance (and she has 2 kids by the way). She IS very unhealthy and has a bad heart partially because she eats horribly and has a crazy fear of being fat (pretty sure she weighed less than me when she was 9 months pregnant and I have a bmi of 22 and am only 5′2″, for reference).
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April 20th, 2009 on 4:16 pm
Yeah, there really is no healthy at ANY size - we all have slightly different bodies and distribute our weight differently, but that doesn’t mean that you can have too much extra fat on your body and not have negative effects. For instance, I look pretty smoking hot at around 150-160 - for some gals that would be way too heavy because of their unique body & structure, but for me I look really good and in shape at that weight - I think if I were to get under 140 my face would be way too thin, etc. and I wouldn’t look too good.
I just watched a segment on Oprah about a book called “Blue Zones” - a few areas of the world where people lived the longest and how they live. So interesting!! One thing for sure: none of those that lived long, active, healthy lives were obese in the slightest. They were active, worked hard, ate wholesome foods, and had a purpose or reason to wake up in the morning - they all were probably in much better shape than I’m in right now! I’d like to pick up this book - it sounds very interesting and inspiring.
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April 20th, 2009 on 4:21 pm
I have thought about it a lot this weekend, and I think from my earlier comments you can see that I don’t agree with the movement. However, I will concede that we think about weight over health too much, but like the comment above, all sizes are not healthy. I put on a little weight in college and I think it was the worst I had felt in my life. I was out of shape and not happy. I think that people should try to live their best lives and I don’t think you can do that and be out of shape.
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April 20th, 2009 on 4:34 pm
I know you can’t be “healthy” if you are more than 20lbs overweight, but skinny doesn’t mean healthy (physically and mentally). Weight is usually attached to an emotional issue. Big people just happen to wear their issues outside where we can (or not) judge them. I don’t know that it’s our business until they ask for help?
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April 20th, 2009 on 4:49 pm
I think part of the problem with the last thread is that “fat acceptance”, “healthy at every size” and “BMI is a load of bullcrap” were used interchangeably. They’re not the same thing.
1- It is horrible that the “obesity epidemic” is giving people (including, appallingly, medical people) licence to treat overweight people even worse than they already did.
2- Fat acceptance IS a slippery slope because it’s NOT the same as “healthy at any size.” It’s an aesthetic movement.
3- To the extent that focus on the “obesity epidemic” enhances people’s focus on healthy habits, it is a good thing. To the extent that it demonises fat and defines people by their weight alone, it is not.
4- People can be healthy along a spectrum of sizes, but not at ANY size.
5- BMI is a load of bullcrap, and too often it is not used as a tool, but as the “be all and end all.”
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April 20th, 2009 on 5:20 pm
I don’t think anyone should be discriminated against for their size. No one should be made fun of. We should love, honor, and respect our bodies…
But.
Saying “obesity is unhealthy” is NOT discriminatory against obese people. It’s a fact. My problem is how the fat acceptance movement has cast facts as discrimination- they don’t believe in the obesity epidemic (even in children) they think it’s all made up by the media, they don’t believe in diets, they say that it’s perfectly natural to be 250, 300, 400, even 500 pounds. So, therefore, in their movement, saying things like “being obese is unhealthy” is labeled as discrimination. No, it’s not. Not hiring someone at 400 pounds is discrimination. Telling someone at 400 pounds they’re fat and ugly is mean, hurtful, and wrong.But using well documented science to say “being 400 pounds isn’t healthy” is just the truth.
I think the main problem is that the “love your body” campaign- which was started to prevent healthy, normal sized women from starving down to anorexic model sizes unnaturally- has been co-opted to include obesity, and that’s not the point. I think it’s a disservice to the good work of the love your body campaign, and lulls people into a false sense of security as to their very real health risks.
You can, and should, love yourself for your unique body shape- some of us are thick, some are thin, some tall, some short, big breasts, small breasts, etc. But your “unique body shape” stops being something to love and celebrate when it’s killing you, you know? I just hate how the two have gotten intertwined. I lost just ten pounds in the past year, and the difference in my energy level and health was unbelievable. I can’t imagine having an extra 200 pounds on me. The average human skeleton simply isn’t meant to bear it.
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April 20th, 2009 on 5:31 pm
I would also say that I can’t help but be highly skeptical when I hear people who are 200+ pounds, 5′4″ saying that they exercise every day, eat healthily, and just can’t lose weight. I can’t help but think they might just not understand the science of nutrition- calories in vs. calories out- or perhaps they have an underlying medical condition they don’t know about- PCOS, thyroid problems, etc. A lot of these women on these boards talk about their weight- often well into the 200’s, and into the early 300’s- and cap it off with saying “I eat really well and exercise, so this is just my shape”. I don’t buy it. I feel like a jerk, it’s not that I think they’re liars, I think they just might not realize what they’re eating, or how many calories it has… they may count things as “exercise” that burn little to no calories, etc.
The main thing that would help is education, but unfortunately many of these blogs have a comments censor policy that won’t publish any comments that even mention diets, and they already believe they never work and shouldn’t be tried.. they also disagree with making lifestyle changes, permanent, healthy changes. They say that doesn’t work either
So education, again, comes off as discrimination, or you’re attacking them, etc. It’s hard to even address it.
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Cristin Reply:
April 20th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Sophia, which boards are you talking about? The “Healthy at Any Size” boards?
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Sophia Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:05 am
No, the Fat Acceptance boards- specifically kateharding.net and blogs like Big Fat Deal, Fat Chicks Rule, etc. I’ve never posted there, but I’ve read the comments policies they have and I’ve seen people get completely *skewered* out of nowhere, called names, told they were bigots and @$$holes, etc., just for not toeing the “rah rah” party line. I also read a blog called Life at 400 Pounds (or something like that) where the woman was saying that her quality of life wasn’t affected at all, that obese was healthy, that she was happy, etc… and then I proceeded to read an entire post about how long it takes her to wash and dry her folds before she powders them down, and how happy she is now that she’s discovered a way not to get *yeast infections* in them anymore because they used to *crack* and would cause her pain… and she talks about how sleep apnea mask… and her stress incontinence and how she wears pads every day…
And on that woman’s very first post, Kate Harding, the Fat Acceptance movement poster girl/leader comments and says how glad she is that the 400 pound woman is blogging, because people need to see that 400 pound people aren’t bedridden… yeah, maybe not, but look at all the other problems- yeast infections in your folds? Sleep apnea? Stress incontinence? And yet this woman maintains that her size is normal and she doesn’t want or need to lose weight. And the leader of the Fat Acceptance movement says “right on, you’re perfect just the way you are!” I find it sad
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Kelli Nicole Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:10 am
I agree with you
. I also think that a lot of people think they eat healthy, when they mean they eat “low fat.” I know TONS of people really do eat healthy and eat lots of natural, high in vitamin veggies and whole grains and whatever, but I know plenty of people who say they eat really healthy and when you look in their cupboards everything says “sugar free” (unnaturally), “low fat,” “diet whatever,” etc, with added artificial sweeteners and their fridge has no fresh vegetables or fruits. I don’t believe that’s healthy.
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Valerie Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:56 am
I do have to say, I do have PCOS and thyroid problems that have been officially diagnosed by an endocrinologist, gynecologist, and general practitioner.
I don’t count calories in the sense that i can only eat 1200 calories a day, but I follow the 7g protein for ever 15g carbs diabetic way of eating in order to control my blood sugar throughout the day.
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April 20th, 2009 on 6:10 pm
I weighed 170lbs for awhile, ate fruits and vegetables, had ridiculously low blood pressure, and exercised every.single.day. I definitely believe you can be in really good shape but be “overweight”. (I was 5′4″ and obese by bmi pinch test standards, which is even more reliable than height/weight.) Once I decided to lose weight, I adjusted what I was eating - swapping out different proteins, etc., changing my workouts - but it was really really really hard - because I didn’t eat crap to begin with. I also refuse to kill myself trying to reach a goal weight. I have never been unhealthy - I have, so far, been healthy at every size that I have been at.
There were studies recently that said that if you had the “fat” gene, which most of us do, you have to work out for about 4 hours a day to do that. The study was of the Amish, who manage that just fine. But honestly, nobody should have to chose between a job and a spouse and a life that they love and being thin, if they are healthy and functional at the weight they are. And nobody should be mean to people who either aren’t as genetically lucky as they are or who make different choices about their bodies. (Not everybody wants to or has time to log what they eat in a food journal, prepare healthy foods, grocery shop weekly to buy fresh produce, whatever.)
What the healthy at every size movement is asking of us is simply to, at the end of the day, be a decent human being.
Do not judge other people, for they may be fighting a harder battle than you can ever know. They may just be lazy slobs, but they probably aren’t. Instead of judging, try treating every single overweight person that you meet like their weight is not their “fault”. You will find that you will treat the people you encounter with more kindness and respect than you would ordinarily afford them, and the bottom line is that is a good thing, and I am glad that there are people out there who are advocating for that.
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April 20th, 2009 on 8:00 pm
I have a funny story. When I met my husband I was super skinny. Combo of being young with a high metabolism and great genes, plus I had just left a stressful job and when I’m stressed I’m not hungry. That’s not the point. We had only been on a few dates and he asked me out on a date to go hiking. I told him “I’m small, but I’m not in shape.” He thought I was just throwing him a line - but he soon learned I was serious. When he tells the story, “we were doing switchbacks up a hill,” whereas I’d say “we were climbing a mountain at a 70 degree incline.” Regardless, he was walking in front of me and he thought I was right behind him and he was chatting with me. When I didn’t respond he turned around and found me down the trail, hugging a tree, face bright white, dry heaving into the forest! How beautiful!?!
This argument that there are lots of fat people that are healthy is pure BS - there are lots of non-fat people that aren’t healthy - lots and lots of them. The recent gallop pole showed that only 17% of Americans are exercising enough - judged by a different standard, it got up closer to 50% - that means every other person in the US is unhealthy. Fat people are unhealthy and lots of skinny people (including me) are unhealthy. As a final note, I spend my days diagnosing dementia - sometimes due to AD and sometimes Vascular dementia (your brain NEEDS blood - so hypertension, hyperlipidemia, all are bad for the brain). Yet another reason to exercise.
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R Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I have a co-worker who’s mom had severe dementia because of untreated high blood pressure. I work for a heart surgeon who says he has two rules, don’t be fat and don’t smoke. Those two things will destroy your health.
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April 20th, 2009 on 10:45 pm
I was thinking about this earlier this week - I caught the last little bit of Back to the Future 3 on tv and it mentions that in the future we would have automated stage coaches and people would run for recreation not out of necessity. We as a culture have lost or have relegated our physical survival methods for our cultural and new survival methods of intellectual, technological, and sometimes social prowess. These are all great things that our culture values highly, but it does come at the cost of physical strength, agility, and health.
On a related note - I think you can be healthy throughout a range of weights. When I was 185+ I could probably run longer and harder than I can now at 150-155. I have more energy because I’m just starting to take care of my body, but my lung capacity and muscle strength aren’t back to where they were years ago.
Also, as much as fighting against the acceptance movement is a good thing because it stops people who are overweight from using it as a crutch to not get in shape - we have another epidemic in our society. The epidemic goes beyond young girls with eating disorders withering away in their 95 pound frames - it includes grown women who are depressed, men who judge their masculinity by their size, and everything in between. This epidemic tears each of us down as we judge and compare our bodies to those around us or those we see in magazines. I would much rather see someone who has little bit of flab (really… I’m talking only a little bit) around their stomach, but who loves who they are and is confident in their own skin. They would be a much happier and productive person if they truly loved and appreciated who they were inside and out. I know in my case - I was able to focus on my health and my weight only after I was happy and the rest of my life was controlled. If I didn’t have my confidence, my friends, and my professional life in a stable situation I wouldn’t have had the time, energy, or focus needed to get to a healthier me. We should be looking to help others to reach their goals and be the best version of themselves while still promoting happiness along the route. It will only make us appreciate the end result even more and can only increase our self confidence.
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April 20th, 2009 on 11:11 pm
I most certainly do not want anyone to starve themselves. I also know that there are people who are bigger yet healthier than I am.
That said, I don’t believe that all sizes should be accepted. If you have a medical issue, fine, but most people don’t. Or, the medical issues are CAUSED by the size.
However, I think health is indicated by much more than the shape of your tummy or the number on a scale.
Simply put, it is not healthy to be very overweight, and I don’t think that “healthy at every size” is a healthy attitude.
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April 20th, 2009 on 11:14 pm
Ahhh! Sorry about the “thread-jack” Jenna. I literally thought to myself, well, she’s out of town, so she won’t mind… It was as if you were our mother and I was trying to get away with something I wasn’t sure was OK. As a graduate student in public health in New York City, I felt passionately enough about this topic to consider starting my own blog so I could have a space to cover the issue. But I don’t have a cute header, nickname or icon to call my own, so I think I’ll stick to “thread-jacking” and ranting to my fiancee about my health tangents instead. Thanks for being understanding.
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April 21st, 2009 on 12:12 am
Wow, what a bitchy entry.
Whether or not you and other haters think that there’s something inherently evil and sub-human about we fat folks, you need to understand one thing:
hating people will never make them thin. Making fun of them will never make them thin. And the zebra thing is completely offensive and not an apt comparison. I could compare you to an animal, but I’ll refrain.
I will never bother reading your blog again, because I find this so incredibly offensive. But I ask you to reconsider your hate-mongering.
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Christiana Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:30 am
But we are animals…we’re primates. I’ve never seen an overweight Zebra, or a Gorilla for that matter.
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Kelli Nicole Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:39 am
Question, have you been following Jenna’s blog at all? Has she always been some super skinny supermodel who could eat a gallon of ice cream and not gain any weight? She was FAT and she’s the first person to admit it. Much of her family is fat. I don’t believe she ever thought she or anyone she loves is/was inherently evil (though apparently you think she is…).
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Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:59 am
So I guess you don’t believe in evolution then?
I actually don’t either. And I never said I hate fat people. I am fat. I’m actually getting fatter by the day. I just said we wouldn’t be arguing that fat is good if we had a more visible predator.
This is the tactic that many who believe in the fat acceptance movement use. If someone doesn’t agree with you, you claim bigotry and hatred. It’s a completely ineffective, and quite honestly a childish argument.
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Sophia Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:10 pm
EXACTLY Jenna. Ms. Loaf’s over the top comment has no basis in reality- she says
“Whether or not you and other haters think that there’s something inherently evil and sub-human about we fat folks, you need to understand one thing: hating people will never make them thin. Making fun of them will never make them thin. ”
Nowhere in your post did you say fat people were sub-human. Several of these comments have stressed that no one should be discriminated against, or made fun of, or treated badly. It’s this hysterical reaction, with fingers pointed at us as bigots, that shuts down any conversation. There are actually fat acceptance blogs that compare non fat acceptance people to NAZIS. They compare themselves to Jews, persecuted. That really, really offends me. It’s not the same. I’m not a bigot for believing in science. I’m not a bigot for saying a 400 pound woman who sees having to powder her folds to prevent yeast infections as someone who has been DELUDED by the fat acceptance movement. If anything, it’s because I care about these people as human beings, and want them to have happy, active lives, that I disagree with fat acceptance… sorry for the rant : /
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mhb Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pm
I presume that Ms. Loaf won’t read this, which is a bummer, because I think this is important:
I love fat people. Specifically, I love my mother, and my uncle, and a few other close family members who are obese. I want them to live longer. I want them to have time with their grandchildren. I _love_ them. Dearly. And it’s frustrating and saddening to me that their short time on earth is being made shorter, and the quality of their lives is lower (and it is: hypertension, back problems, sleep disorders, etc) because they are so overweight. My mom is more aware of this than most, and she’s working on it, but she’s got a lifetime of bad habits to break.
I don’t expect a middle-aged mother of three kids to become some weird skinny Hollywood ideal. I just want her to be able to climb a hill/take a long walk/ go for a bike ride comfortably, and it would be great if she didn’t have to take blood pressure medication. And it would be awesome if she lives for a lot longer. Because I love her. And that’s not contingent on her weight. So there.
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R Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I first read this post and thought the same thing as MsLoaf even though while reading it a second time I realize that the original point wasn’t offensive, except for the cartoon. What it did do is trigger a lot of issues I have with weight because a lot of my family is morbidly obese. Speaking very honestly, a lot of the comments are demeaning to people who have a serious struggle both psychologically and physically. We have enough problems, as women, loving ourselves. I’m slightly overweight, and this post does not help me love myself. It makes me ashamed and sad. Nor does it make me think that the one who created me loves me. That being said, I admire you (Jenna) for being able to post about topics such as these. Your blog makes me think, and for that I am grateful.
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April 21st, 2009 on 1:44 am
I’m sorry that Ms Loaf found your post so offensive; I don’t see your post as hateful in the least. I see a lot of truth in it.
I’ve often wondered if I had been born 200 years ago, or even back in the time before any sort of weapons had been invented (what, the Neolithic period or something)? Would I have made it?
No. I’d be dead. I have flat feet, bad eyesight, I had strep throat repeatedly as a kid, and I seem to get sick easy. Some animal or disease would have taken me down by now. It’s just that simple.
So, I take Jenna’s entry to be an interesting observation. If it truly were “survival of the fittest” what would happen?
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April 21st, 2009 on 7:25 am
As a nurse, I can say that I do not believe in “healthy at any size.” Very rarely are people who are obese healthy. Their BP may be fine, their body may not show signs of diabetes, but visceral fat is still on the body.
That being said, being thin doesn’t necessarily mean healthy, either. I see thin teenagers who eat junk and don’t exercise. It’s a matter of time before they become “not thin.”
People put way too much emphasis on genetics. It may play a part, but it’s not as big as people, or the media, make it out to be. Not single scientific research study (done by a credible reputation) has ever made the excuse that someone can’t get thin because of genetics. My entire family was heavy-many of them morbidly obese. Mom mom decided, after twenty some years, that enough was enough. She lost 126 lbs in less than a year and has KEPT IT OFF! Many others in my family followed suite and have lost weight and kept it off. Genetics might make it more difficult to lose or maintain, but it certainly doesn’t stop someone from doing it.
Generational obesity also includes behavioral trends and culture. If you didn’t grow up in a home eating healthful foods and engaging in purposeful exercise, chances are you won’t grow up to do it. That doesn’t mean it’s genetics making you overweight; it means you were exposed to bad habits.
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April 21st, 2009 on 8:23 am
Wait. Back up. Off the topic of weight, I was caught by this… “But as a species we have somehow convinced ourselves that the rules of nature don’t apply to us. We have breathing tubes and respirators, machines to restart the heart, and machines to keep us alive when we are 99% dead. We are reaching after immortality, and we’re determined to have it whether we’ve earned it or not.”
Are you saying you’re against saving the life of someone who needs it, whether or not it has anything to do with factors that they control? I think natural selection for humans is a load of crap. I had leukemia, and with the policy of “natural selection”, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t be in the lab today, using my time and abilities to work towards better drugs for other pediatric cancers to help other unfortunate, innocent children who did nothing wrong, except having faulty genes. I had a bone marrow transplant. I had breathing tubes and was on respirators. It had nothing to do with being overweight, or not taking care of myself — I was too young to have ever done anything to myself. But because of natural selection, I should have just died out?
And ironically, because I spent so many resultant following years on chemotherapy and following drugs which changed my metabolism, I am now overweight. I work out everyday, I can run a faster mile pace than most of my non-overweight friends, and I have seen several doctors and dietitians who all say that I am doing everything right but will likely never be able to lose the extra weight because of the problems with my metabolism caused by the years and years of medications I have had to take. So you know what? Life IS better for me like this — because otherwise, I wouldn’t be here at all… I wouldn’t have survived the leukemia at all.
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Erin Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:48 am
Well written. I wanted to add that I don’t like how Jenna has chosen when the “we are just like animals” applies and doesn’t apply (we shouldn’t be fat because we are JUST like animals; we shouldn’t be in same sex relationships or have multiple partners because we are nothing like animals).
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Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:00 am
I don’t think I said we are like animals. Actually I said, it would be better if we WERE like animals because then no one could argue for being fat because someone would take them out before they were able to do so. Go ahead, scroll back up and read it, you’ll see.
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Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:56 am
Maybe “gastric bypasses and staples in the stomach” would have been a better phrase. I’m not against modern medicine, but quantity of life seems to have taken precedence over quality of life.
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April 21st, 2009 on 11:05 am
I’m sorry about the thread jacking. I would write more about fat acceptance (and yes, I didn’t present a good argument by interchangeably using “fat acceptance” “obesity” and “health at any size,” but rather a passionate argument) , but unfortunately my mother-in-law is being naturally selected to finally die from cancer this week. She wasn’t fat, but she smoked, drank, and tanned a lot. She also, not surprisingly, was genetically predisposed to have cancer.
That isn’t the point of this comment though. I’m sorry for the thread jacking. We disagree and that’s what makes the world go around.
I’m glad most of the people on this thread have been generally thoughtful and kind. I do see the points they present, but be careful with your words. You feel hurt when people say things to you (as indicated by your hatred of fat now that you’ve lost weight), so you should choose how you voice your hate for being fat wisely. You have a lot of readers who respect you, and your beliefs, and your way of life.
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Jenna Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:10 am
Saying you don’t think it’s right to be fat is not the same as saying you hate fat people.
Can anyone argue that being fit, agile, healthy, and at a low weight is not the BEST option. Shouldn’t that be what we shoot for?
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R Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I think loving yourself and others, no matter your/their size, is more important than being healthy and thin.
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Valerie Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:12 am
Sorry, let me rephrase… your hatred for YOUR fat, not fat in general.
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Sophia Reply:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I would disagree with the logic that says you can’t have a certain opinion about yourself and not hold it for others. For example, I’m often very disappointed if I don’t get A’s. There have been times when I’ve complained about getting a B, and my friends have said “oh thanks, I made a C, I guess you think I’m stupid”. No, I don’t, but my standard is A’s, and it has nothing to do with anyone but me. Or, I have made the choice not to tan, because it causes wrinkles, premature aging, and cancer. Yet when my tanning bed going friends make fun of me for being so pale, and I state my reasons for not going to tanning beds, they get offended! And say things like “oh, so you think I look like leather? I’m dumb for going?”.
What I’m trying to say is, Jenna’s attitude towards *her fat* and *her struggle* is *hers*. And if other people are so comfortable and confident in their choices, why would it bother them if she (or anyone else) disagreed? Does that make sense? If Jenna said “I used to be fat, and now I actively hate fat people and think they’re gross and should die and I tell fat people that all the time” of course, that’s a different story. But Jenna saying “I’m so glad I don’t look like this anymore” is her right to express her opinions over what she views- and what most of us view- as a fantastic achievement.
I am truly sorry though if anyone felt that fat people were being attacked as humans. That wasn’t my intention in my comments, and I don’t think it was the intention of most people in theirs.
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Valerie Reply:
April 22nd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Really, if anyone has read anything that I have posted in comments, I’ve said multiple times in all of my posts on this topic that we agree to disagree and to each his own. It doesn’t bother me that people have a problem with how I live my life. It really doesn’t. I’m an easy going person and if someone doesn’t agree with me, it’s not a personal attack. Because Jenna hates being fat herself, I know that doesn’t mean Jenna hates me for being fat. I’m not blind to that logical conclusion. I honestly believe I’m a little more intelligent than that.
We all make personal decisions in regards to our health, including weight.
Unfortunately I think the only thing I have to disagree with is the posting of the cartoon. Intentional or not, posting a fat zebra cartoon is generally depicted as offensive.
If you want to write for a large audience and have it tied to your personal business, you have to make sacrifices on what you do and don’t publish. Yeah, it’s her personal blog, but she has tied it to her business. For an issue so controversial that is likely to offend fat people whether or not it was intended (and then to say it’s their own fault for being offended), it’s best to keep your business and personal lives separate.
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April 29th, 2009 on 5:36 pm
Actually, Valerie - you touched on a mental defense that we therapists like to call ‘projection’.
When we can’t handle our OWN feelings towards ourself (ex: If someone hates themselves for being fat) than we project that hatred onto others, because it is easier to hate another than hate oneself.
I’m not sure that is what is going on here - but I just found it interesting. Jenna is an articulate, conservative woman, and I think often this blog becomes a space for people to vocalize their viewpoints (anywhere on the spectrum) but it rarely seems to be constructive dialogue.
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May 21st, 2009 on 1:29 pm
Jenna,
I think you aren’t quite understanding the Healthy at Every Size concept. It ISN’T “eat whatever junk food you want, never exercise and call yourself healthy”. Instead it’s making good exercise and nutritional decisions no matter what your particular starting point. Rather than focusing on the number on the scale, you keep the focus on eating reasonable portions of healthy, nutritious foods (like fruits and veggies, whole grains, lean meat), avoiding processed food or food with lots of empty calories (sugar and fried stuff), doing strength training and cardio exercise.
I don’t want to be the bearer of bad news, but once I hit my 30s, it became MUCH harder to lose weight than when I was in my 20s. I used to just cut back on calories and do a little more cardio and the pounds would drop off. Not true anymore.
I’ve added strength training in the form of pilates (you might want to look into that- pilates is good for people with stuff like back injuries) and my waist has shrunken big time. After 2 months, my clothes were falling off of me, but when I got on the scale, I was only 4 lbs lighter. Did I mention that I was also sticking to my dietician’s recommended diet and running 3xs a week? Argh! It was really, really frustrating. So, I’ve decided to put away the scale for now and just continue doing what I’m doing. I’ve had to accept that I’m never going to have the stringbean body, BMI of 20 that I had when I was younger. Instead, I’m just going to continue my healthy habits and see where my body wants to be which is probably going to be a little over the recommended BMI. But after 4 months of pilates, my hourglass figure is back and my arms and legs are toned, so I’m not complaining too much.
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mary Reply:
October 6th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Excellent clarification Jenna. I am a Health at Every Size advocate, not a Fat Acceptance advocate. There is a clear difference between the two. HAES is about eating and moving for health and life, not to change a number on the scale. It is about recognizing that long-term weight loss on a specific diet is not realistic for the majority of people. Recognize that and move on to be healthy for YOU, no matter the number on the scale or BMI chart.
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