I’ve heard the process of childbirth compared to running a marathon, but I’m not quite sure that fits what childbirth symbolizes to me. Running a marathon is a rather homogeneous experience for everyone involved. They all start at the sound of the gun, run toward the finish line, progress by putting one foot in front of the other. Childbirth is anything but homogeneous, and I don’t think it should be described as such. But a metaphor seems necessary, no? All momentous life events are best described with a metaphor attached, and so I developed my own.
Childbirth is getting yourself from base camp (pregnancy) to the top of the mountain (motherhood).
There are several different ways to climb the mountain, four very distinct means in my opinion. Not all mothers fit neatly into one specific category. These are generalizations for a reason (and that reason is that listing every type of mother would exhaust my brain cells and never satisfy anyone anyway), and should be read as such. I acknowledge that many of you probably climbed the mountain a different way, but from the birth stories I’ve read and heard, these seem to be the four prototypes of pregnant/laboring women.
1. The pro-natural, researched-every-little-thing-to-death, drug-free vaginal birth mothers. These women know what they want and how they want it. They’ve taken specialized classes (not just the free or discounted class offered by the hospital). They have a birth plan. They often give birth outside of a hospital setting. These women have usually read every book they can get their hands on, and it’s usually literature with a very heavy bias away from drugs and doctors and toward midwives and birthing centers (or houses). In my experience, the majority of women in this group want to stay in this group for future births.
In terms of the metaphor, these are the die-hard climbers who train for months and months. They work to condition and prepare their bodies using unique training methods. They make the entire journey, from base camp to tip of the mountain on foot and crow with triumph when they reach the top. Their minds are clear and they feel an immense pride in accomplishing their goal. They usually spend the rest of their life preaching about what a tremendous experience their birth was whenever the topic of conversation tuns to labor and delivery.
2. The what-moves-me vaginal birth mothers. They are keeping their options open, thinking they may go natural but that they might end up going for the drugs if all of the horror stories they’ve heard are really true. They don’t want to make broad statements that might leave them feeling trapped in a certain mindset. Some of the mountain climbers in this category desire the drugs, but they don’t end up getting them because their labor progresses so quickly. After the birth is over they usually jump to a new group, as they’ve may have experienced both natural and medicated labor in the same sitting, and decided one way or another which they preferred.
When it comes to climbing the mountain, these women also make the journey on foot, although they often aren’t as prepared. They may not have conditioned their bodies in the same manner as group 1, figuring they would take the epidural ATV up to the top toward the end. They walk away from the experience either wishing they had caught the ATV express or waxing poetic about what a moving experience natural birth was. They likely won’t climb the mountain the same way the next time around.
3. The give-me-the-drugs-or-I’ll-punch-you-in-the-face mothers. These women knew from day one that they didn’t want to experience the pains of labor. They want the epidural and plan accordingly, and they usually don’t explore other options before inserting the IV. These women are in good company in the US as the majority of women in this country ask for an epidural at some point in their labor.
These women don’t climb the mountain on foot. They hire an ATV to take them up to the top, although this method doesn’t come without it’s own complications. The ride is often very bumpy, they’re still climbing a tall mountain in the open air and pressure changes and difficulty breathing are to be expected.
4. The cut-me-open-and-get-the-baby-out mothers. A very diverse group, including women who intended to be in groups 1, 2, or 3, but things did not go according to plan and now for the sake of their baby, or for their own sake, they must undergo a cesarean section. Many of these women experience both the pains of labor, and the complications of healing after major abdominal surgery, and are therefore not to be envied for their avoidance of the dreaded pushing stage. A small portion of this group belong to the elusive “elective c-section by demand of the patient” crowd, choosing surgery over vaginal birth for no documented medical reason.
Whether from base camp or halfway up, these women are airlifted to the tip of the mountain using a fancy black chopper. C-sections can last as little as 30 minutes from surgery prep to crying baby and the transition from expecting to motherhood is a very quick one. Depending on the surgery recovery experience, this option is either praised or torn apart. Almost all seem to agree that avoiding the pushing stage was ideal.
Childbirth is not something to be merely suffered through, feared or dreaded. Ladies, we should be celebrating our magnificent accomplishment! If someone went through the trials and suffering of climbing a mountain and then spent the rest of their life downplaying their achievement you would step in and tell them the reasons why their experience was worth celebrating.
The other thing we can do as women, as mountain climbers, is to stop using the scare tactics on each other. If someone who had never climbed a mountain before came to you with fears and apprehension about the upcoming experience, would you tear them down, telling them how awful it was, how terrifying it is to not know if you will ever make it to the top? NO! You would offer helpful advice about what snacks to pack, to take oxgyen to help with the climb, what dangerous areas to avoid because of cliffs and avalanche, and most importantly, to take a climbing partner who can encourage when one is floundering in discouragement. Most of all, we would focus on the end result. On the beauty or reaching the top and holding that baby in our arms.
As I said in my last post, I don’t claim to know what option is best for everyone. And most women and their birthing experiences cannot be drawn up into a categorical box such as the ones described above. Get educated, choose the kind of mountain climbing experience you want to have, and make it happen.
Because no matter how you get there, you will love the baby you find waiting at the top of that mountain.
P.S.-Some of you may already know, but for those who don’t, what group do you think I fall into?
September 25th, 2009 on 9:30 am
Hi Jenna,
First of all, congrats to you on the pregnancy. It definitely sounds like you’re doing your research and I think it’s so nice that women today have so many options available.
I’m not pregnant, nor a mother, nor trying to conceive (yet!) so perhaps my perspective is a little different. I have yet to decide how I want to proceed with my own pregnancies in the future but I’m doing a lot of research now. However, I am a very petite (short as well as having always been very thin) person and I (and my gyno) have wondered if I’ll be able to give birth naturally. Anyways, that’s just sort of an explanation I guess, of how I feel about some of this.
I do wonder if some of your descriptions are unfair. It’s certainly possible that what you describe as the “give-me-the-drugs-or-I’ll-punch-you-in-the-face mothers” have done their research as much as women in the first group. Women who decide on natural births are not the only ones who have “researched ever little thing” or read every book possible.
Please don’t forget that it’s possible for many different women to read the same books, do the same research but come to very different decisions as a result. Natural births, home births, midwives, etc. are not decisions every woman is comfortable with. And that’s ok.
Saying that some women are driven to the top of the hill in ATVs seems to imply to me that it’s better to have walked on your own two feet. I guess for me, the most important thing is just getting to the top of the hill at all - some women aren’t even that lucky and women who are able to become mothers (and I do hope I’m one of them sooner rather than later) are all blessed, whichever method they choose.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Ashley,
I know women who choose epidural feel attacked by women who go natural. I don’t object to women who have done their research, and it’s truly their choice. But I hear women saying things like this all the time “GIVE ME THE DRUGS”, “I’m scared of labor pains so I’m having an epidural”, “I would never go without”, “Women who don’t use drugs are stupid” (my own family gave me this one), “Why torture yourself by giving birth without the drugs?”, “I believe in the power of modern medicine and there is no need for women to suffer.” “Going into labor without getting an epidural is like going to the dentist and having surgery without getting a shot” (who hasn’t heard this one?), “I’m inducing because my labors are quick and I don’t want to go without the epidural” (I’m SERIOUS, I HEARD SOMEONE SAY THIS). On and on and on. To me, these statements indicate decisions made based on fear and ignorance. I can’t believe they could read a list like the one I’m going to copy and paste below (from this site: http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html) and not form more intelligent sentences to describe why they are making the choice they are:
What are the Disadvantages of epidural anesthesia?
* Epidurals may cause your blood pressure to suddenly drop. For this reason your blood pressure will be routinely checked to make sure there is adequate blood flow to your baby. If this happens you may need to be treated with IV fluids, medications, and oxygen
* You may experience a severe headache caused by leakage of spinal fluid. Less than 1% of women experience this side effect from epidural use. If symptoms persist, a special procedure called a “blood patch”, an injection of your blood into the epidural space, can be done to relieve the headache
* After your epidural is placed, you will need to alternate from lying on one side to the other in bed and have continuous monitoring for changes in fetal heart rate. Lying in one position can sometimes cause labor to slow down or stop
* You may experience the following side effects: shivering, ringing of the ears, backache, soreness where the needle is inserted, nausea, or difficulty urinating
* You may find that your epidural makes pushing more difficult and additional interventions such as Pitocin, forceps, vacuum extraction or cesarean may become necessary
* For a few hours after birth the lower half of your body may feel numb which will require you to walk with assistance
* In rare instances, permanent nerve damage may result in the area where the catheter was inserted.
* Though research is somewhat ambiguous, most studies suggest some babies will have trouble “latching on” which can lead to breastfeeding difficulties. Other studies suggest that the baby may experience respiratory depression, fetal malpositioning; and an increase in fetal heart rate variability, which may increase the need for forceps, vacuum, cesarean deliveries and episiotomies.
——-
It is my experience that the majority of women choose epidurals without considering the increased chance of c-section, thinking about how decreased movement during labor can stall progress throughout (again, increasing chance of c-section and other interventions), loss of feeling and sensation in the pubic area which causes an increase in the use of forceps & vaccuums & episiotimies, and that epidurals usually make breastfeeding and maternal/fetal bonding more difficult directly after birth, which I believe, of the risks listed above, are the most common.
Epdiruals aren’t bad, but they aren’t like taking a tylenol. It’s a serious decision with serious consequences, and I think generally (and these descriptions were meant to be generalizations) women don’t take the decision to have one seriously enough. There are always exceptions to the rule though, and I commend all of those women who weigh the risks and and make an intelligent decision.
I am making decisions in my own pregnancy that increase the negative risks, as we all do. I think the difference is that I never make those decisions callously. I do my research, I find out what the drawbacks are, and I decide I want to live with the decision. The women in my life usually don’t seem to do so when it comes to choosing an epidural or c-section when it is not medically necessary.
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Brie Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Ashley, just an anecdotal experience- I have a friend that is barely 5 feet tall, maybe 100 pounds, and gave birth to 4 boys (between 9 and 11 lbs each!) completely naturally. I know more than one woman like this too, so don’t worry too much about being small!
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HamiHarri Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I have to agree with what Ashley said - recognizing that something is a generalization is still judge-y, and almost worse, because you recognize that something is very narrowly thought yet still make the generalizations.
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Emily Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
I also agree with Ashley. You still reach the top of the mountain whichever way you go. There are possible side effects to every way of giving birth- not just an epidural or a caesarean. I think its offensive to say that group number one have trained harder, and are more educated on the subject of childbirth, and your descriptions of group 3 and 4 are extremely insulting. It is possible to be just as educated as group 1, and choose to have a caesarean… there are risks in homebirths and birth with no pain relief also.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Hey Emily,
Just curious, but what risk would there be in a birth with no pain relief?
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emily Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I meant that there are risks in all births, including those without pain relief.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Well of course. There just aren’t risks associated to choosing no pain relief, the risks you mention are for ALL births.
When my doctor friend was in med school she got a lot of… enjoyment(?)… out of two slides, which in essence said, “Child birth is a life threatening condition.” So it is. But going without pain meds doesn’t add to the life threatening part. It should be noted too, that going without pain meds doesn’t mean going without pain relief. Believe me, I know, I did it with out pain meds, but had plenty of pain relief.
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Jenny Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I agree with ashley’s satement (I’m sure we all do)
“I guess for me, the most important thing is just getting to the top of the hill at all - some women aren’t even that lucky and women who are able to become mothers (and I do hope I’m one of them sooner rather than later) are all blessed, whichever method they choose.”
Having this conversation is a luxury. It is. Just talk to any woman whose road to conception is long and who longs to be a mother. In the end, does it really matter from that perspective? It doesn’t.
And so while I think this discussion is important and while I firmly believe that educating yourself about all the options is very necessary and important, I can’t help but think- from the mother’s perspective who has a healthy child after birth- that the means in which they got there really, ultimately doesn’t matter.
Of course a woman wants to have the best birth experience, do what is safest for her baby, and have it overall be a positive experience instead of a traumatizing one (this is coming from a girl who’s excitedly watched “The Business of Being Born” 20 times)
Giving birth, no matter how you do it, is an amazing privilege. Not something to be able to say “I climbed a mountain and you took a fancy helipcopter” about. That is just silly. There are many educated women who achieve motherhood in ways other than natural with no interventions (whether they planned it that way or not) and I hardly believe that they would believe they didn’t climb the mountain themselves.
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September 25th, 2009 on 10:18 am
I’ve mentioned this to you, but I’ll write it here for the sake of the blog. My oldest sister has been in several groups
. While she researches many many natural parenting choices to death, I’m not sure she did tons on birth, though my youngest sister did. Her first birth ended in c-section due to a footling breech (the section was actually planned, but she went into labor the day, a week early, and they couldn’t get her in for at least 12 hours during which she had no progression). Her second was a vbac (vaginal birth after cesarean for those who don’t know) due to her research on the known risks and complications associated with repeat cesareans (with an epidural), though labor was 36 hours or so and the epi obviously didn’t work for that entire time. Her 3rd unexpectedly came 4 weeks early in the middle of a move across the country and she was completely unprepared (her words). She’s planned on researching during the move (only made it 1/4 of the way across the country) and after they arrived in their new home. She had books and articles she was going to read, but she just wasn’t emotionally ready for this baby to come when he did. She didn’t get an epidural mostly (I think) because she was worried about how it would effect him since he was technically premature, but it wasn’t easy for her. No one knew why he decided to jump the gun and come early (when it isn’t typical in our family to come so early), so we didn’t know if there would be problems. She made it through without an epidural and afterward was amazed by how quickly she recovered compared to the other 2 births. I honestly don’t know if she’d choose to do an epidural or not in the future, just wanted to share her experiences as I know them.
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September 25th, 2009 on 10:41 am
I have to agree with what Ashley said. Although I’m sure it wasn’t your intention, it kind of sounds like those women who choose other options than a natural birth are taking the “easy road.” I am due in 8 weeks and am hoping for a natural birth, but I certainly don’t think those who have chosen to have an epidural or C-section haven’t done their research, or are taking an ATV to the top of the mountain. They are still climbing by foot, just taking a different route. In fact, I was set on having an epidural until recently when I decided a natural birth would be best for me.
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Lisa Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 11:11 am
I agree with Mags and Ashley, I think every woman who has a baby can consider herself an accomplished mountain climber. There are difficulties and pain with labor/delivery/recovery no matter how you go about it. There are risks and possible complications no matter how you go about it. Though I didn’t go for the natural route (and in fact pretty much everything about my delivery was not natural because of the circumstances), I had 21 months of reading and researching, so I definitely feel like I did my homework. But, like you pointed out, women don’t fit neatly into the four categories and there can obviously be cross-over.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I actually think choosing (and by choosing I mean actually choosing, not because it was necessary) an epdirual/c-section is the hard road AFTER the birth is over. You miss out on the bonding with your baby directly after birth. Your body is pumped full of fluids and you often have difficulty breastfeeding. If you had an epidural you likely had an episiotomy/forceps/vaccum which make for very difficult recoveries. C-Sections are major abdominal surgery with major recovery. I’m not sure how those choices are “easier”.
You got yourself to the top pretty quick, but the journey back down is usually much much worse than if you had avoided all interventions in the first place.
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schmei Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
That’s exactly what a friend of mine who had 2 c-sections said… she would have rather taken the pain upfront than the agony of healing from abdominal surgery - especially the second one, when she had a toddler who really wanted to be held.
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Lisa Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
That’s exactly what I was thinking actually-and you put it perfectly, you may get to the top quicker but the trek back down can be pretty tough. When we ended up in a c-section, it really was tough waiting for Eli that hour after the surgery while I recovered. After 27 hours of contractions/labor, then a c-section, I just wanted my baby!! That was probably my only “regret” (regret not being the right word since it was necessary at the time) of the way my delivery went, I had been looking forward to that skin-to-skin right when he was born. I certainly tried to make up for it afterward though!
Otherwise, my recovery thankfully wasn’t too bad.
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Ariel Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
My Dr. brought my baby to me in Recovery- after I’d been stapled up- and I breastfed then and there with nary a problem:)
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Katy Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
It’s interesting how different epidural experiences can be, even with the same woman. My first was just swimmingly:)…had I not had to deal with the life-changing news afterward, it would have been the most perfect, low pain experience. Even recovery wasn’t that bad.
This time the epidural thing was a bit more of challenge-they turned it down because my blood pressure was going down. It didn’t work anymore and I got to experience the labor in all its glory and now have completely confirmed with myself that if given the choice-I’d still like an epidural. The recovery was much harder this time I thought too. ‘Same’ epidural-different results.
*Of course, easy experience #1 was with a 5 lb baby…more difficult experience #2 was with a 10 lb baby. So there you go.
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Amanda W Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Not all epidurals are the way you described them. I went through 9 hours of labor on pitocen (I had to have an induction because I had gestational diabetes and they feared my daughter would get too large. She was born 8 days early) which made my contractions terrible really quickly and I couldn’t walk around and they made me lay down the whole time. I chose to have an epidural because I was told the contractions were only going to get way way worse, and unnaturally painful because they are caused by a medication. I am okay with my decision. I felt 9 hours of contractions, then another hour of hard contractions when the epidural stopped working. They also turned my epidural off when it was time to push and I felt everything. I ended up having an episiotomy which they locally numb that area for that procedure. I felt when it was time to push, and I embraced it. I would love to have a completely natural birth next time so that I can know what it would be like for my body to do everything on it’s own.
I never felt ANY pain after having my daughter. I got up right after I had her and they made me use the bathroom. I walked by myself. I was never so numb that I couldn’t feel my legs. I didn’t need any assistance delivering her besides the episiotomy. I just think that your description of an epidural is based merely on things you have read which are mostly the “possible side effects”. Give the rest of us some credit. However, I do agree with you when people say they are going to have an epidural or c-section based on the fact that they don’t want to feel any pain. That’s ridiculous! It is an amazing thing that our body can do. I think you should at least feel a contraction.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:26 am
I imagine that you are having a natural birth..good for you. I don’t think that drugs are necessarily the easy route. The whole process overwhelms me. My sister had drugs and it didn’t seem easy. I have thought about this a lot, and we aren’t sure if my heart condition will let us have babies, right now signs point towards no…but we are cool with it. I would like to think that I would go natural since I don’t even like taking advil but I don’t know I just feel like there is so much pressure to go natural that people feel guilty for having drugs.
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Emmie Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 11:28 am
My comment reads a little funny. What I meant was that I think natural birth is the best route, but I just think a lot of people are guilted into going natural….at least in California.
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JessicaMayBe Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Emmie-
Since living in California for two years (especially up north in Humboldt County…. hippieville…) I have felt some pressure for natural childbirth, which is fine, because I realize that’s what I am really most comfortable with anyways. But now when I hear women are getting epidurals without even considering going without, I do get that California snottiness. “Why wouldn’t you do what’s best for your baby?” Either way, I’m going to au natural. But at a hospital, with a midwife.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
And I agree, it’s a shame to have anyone feeling guilted into any choice. Educated women should stand up for their decisions and feel proud of them, for whatever decision they make.
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Katy Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
I had a neighbor that was training to become a doula - she talked with many times about birth experiences/pain free and I finally had to tell her: I know I COULD do it pain free…I just choose not to. I think we like to judge others in this topic (and breastfeeding, etc) because we know (or think we know) what we want and what we want is somehow perfect in it’s very form because we’re going to do it that way. “I’m smart - I have good decesion making skills - if anyone does differently than me, they must not be doing it right” - - I catch myself doing this all the time!:)
Thanks to my difficult experiences breastfeeding (which I have largely overcome finally - Yeah!!) I’ve learned a HUGE lesson in {trying} to not look down on other fellow mothers and their choices. Before breastfeeding, I looked at the women who’d quit and think they were just big quitters - - now, I know that sometimes, for some women, it’s very painful and difficult and can really affect you mentally when it’s not going right and you want it to.
The beauty of us all experiencing things similar to one another is that we can have more understanding and relate to one another better-make each other feel not so alone. (boy I went off on a tangent…sorry:)
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
See my response to Mags above. Drugs and surgery are NOT the easy route after the birth and women need to look at their options before they make that choice.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:39 am
I am 20 weeks along and hoping to do an intervention-free birth. I think that’s a nicer way of putting it since all birth is natural. I always thought I would be the girl that got the epi. Then I got pregnant and did some research and now I am hoping for an intervention free birth. However, I also realize that I have never had a birth experience before and I have no idea what will happen or how much pain there will be, so I am keeping my options open. In my head, intervention-free is where I’ll be. I’ve hired a Doula and discussed it with my Dr, have started meditating regularly and am mentally preparing for finding a way to go inside myself during the pains of labor. However, should I choose to get an epi then I will not beat myself up over that. Should a C-section be medically necessary to ensure that my baby and I are safe then I will have one.
I think as first time mothers, it is in our best interest not to preach to others how to give birth or that “natural” is best. I think encouraging research is great, but your birth decision is a private one. As humans we have the tendency toward believing that if someone does something differently than me, than that means they are automatically saying the way I did it is wrong. While this is not really the case, we are simply saying, the decisions we make are the right ones for us, and if we’re being honest, could really care less about the decisions that others make (unless of course the decisions they make harm cause us harm). Make the decision that is right for you. Have the birth scenario that you feel is right for you.
Early in pregnancy, I started off touting “natural” birth, but then realized how ridiculous that must seem to my friends who have actually given birth. To use the dentist analogy, I would never read a book on dentistry and then tell a seasoned dentist how to properly pull a tooth. If I am able to pull off an intervention-free birth, than I in no way want my friends who chose to have an epi to feel that their experiences birth experiences are less valid than mine.
I will agree that women tend to share the worst things about pregnancy, birth, and parenting. I believe this is human nature too, but I wish that we would all just start encouraging each other more, taking offense less and realizing that we are not all the same and that is why there are choices - to accommodate all of our individual needs.
The ATV and helicopter analogies are maybe a bit off. I don’t think it’s fair to discount other’s experiences or choices in that way. Also, if the intention is to encourage more research on birth options by other women, the last way to do that is to create a divide. When people feel attacked, offended or discounted, they tend to stop listening.
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Katy Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
I enjoyed reading your comment. I also like how you said “intervention free birth” versus natural. Just because I had some pain medication at the end doesn’t mean I didn’t experience the pains of childbirth BEFORE I got to the hospital-doesn’t mean that I didn’t work hard to push my babies out.
I wonder if those women that are gung-ho about getting no pain medication would on the other hand be willing to be induced. I’m an epidural fan all the way, but being induced was an intervention I wanted to strongly avoid (and did). I wonder if when women say ‘intervention free’ do they mean even inducing labor?
It’s also great that you realize to not invalidate other’s experiences simply because they aren’t what you plan to do. You’ll find in birth and the even bigger adventure - MOTHERHOOD - that things don’t always go as planned, that we mothers have to be good at thinking on our feet, taking what comes and rolling with it to the benefit of our children and ourselves.
Good luck to you in your final 20 weeks!
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Evelyn Reply:
October 24th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Intervention free generally refers to NOT being induced too. As induction is an intervention. I believe it’s generally accepted that anyone that is induced or has to have pitocin in the process of labor is expected to have an epi or some kind of pain meds because the contractions are so unnaturally strong, close together, etc., that they are extremely difficult to bear. Every woman that endures pitocin in labor without pain meds (even for a period of time) deserves a medal, because that pain is simply NOT natural and it’s not meant to be felt!
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:42 am
Hi Jenna!
first off, congratulations! I just wanted to thank you for such an informative discussion. I’m not ready to start TTC yet so I haven’t even started reading much. Only one person I know has ever had a natural birth and I’m intrigued because until then I didn’t realize that hospitals+epidurals were really even optional. Maybe I’m just that naive, but the mothers that I know have always made them sound like a necessary evil when they tell their birth horror stories. Out of curiousity, how long before you were TTC did you start doing research on pregnancy and childbirth?
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Haha, a few people have asked me this now. I really didn’t start hardcore reasearching until I was officially TTC, but the information is INCREDIBLY easy to find. I think most women just don’t look for it (Reading “What to Expect When You’re Expecting” and then taking the free hospital birth class is NOT researching all of your options) or feel overwhelmed at the thought of doing all of their research.
I’ve heard that Your Best Birth is a great book because it explores all of the options. I am a fan of studies. Lots and lots of studies. If I read a cite that makes claims, I try to find corroborating evidence and statistics to back it up.
Even if you do wait all the way until you get pregnant, don’t worry! You have a lot of time to do your research and make your choices.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:43 am
Great article! I do agree that all women are technically climbing the mountain- but on different paths.
Just because it’s random and I have it stored in the back of my brain- I remember learning that women with genital warts or herpes usually elect (or might have to!) have a c-section because a vaginal birth infects the child.
Yes, very random. Just adding to the info pool
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Another reason to do research (extensive) before making a decision.
This site (http://www.pregnancy-info.net/stds_hpv_pregnancy.html) says:
The majority of pregnant women with a past history of HPV and genital warts have healthy pregnancies and birthing experiences. However, HPV can be transmitted both before and, possibly, during birth in women who have an active case of genital warts. Moreover, genital warts can hinder a woman’s ability to have a vaginal birth.
It is not unusual for pregnant women to have genital warts so large that they block the birth canal making a vaginal birth impossible. There is also the risk that the warts may begin to bleed as the baby passes through the birth canal. In some instances, it may be necessary for a woman to have a cesarean section either if the warts completely block the birth canal or are at risk of bleeding excessively during birth. Having a c-section has not been shown to reduce the risk of HPV transmission to a child, though.
and March of Dimes says:
Pregnant women who have HPV infection usually do not give it to their babies.
It takes a lot of time (that I don’t have) to research all of these claims really seriously (and I don’t have genital warts so it isn’t an issue for me). If I did have genital warts and my doctor said c-seciton was the only option though, I would look into it myself before making a decision.
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Ellie Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I would look into it too, but if a c-section was the only way to be safe, I would not take the risk for HPV (or HIV) to be transmitted to my child I think if there was any chance, I wouldn’t take it, because I would do anything to keep my baby safe. But so far, not an issue I have to deal with.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:44 am
I really don’t think running a marathon is a homogenous experience. Yes, you have a similar goal-but each person’s body is different. How they motivate themselves to get there, whether they finish, how long it takes them-all unique. The goal of childbirth is to have a safe, healthy child at the end of the process-yes?
I think the marathon reference refers to it being difficult but rewarding.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I really, really, strongly disagree with this “the goal is to have a safe, healthy child” mindset. We tout that to each other because we are worried about being politically correct and hurting other women’s feelings, but it discredits the actual experience of childbirth, and I think, causes women to say “I’ll do whatever my doctor tells me because all that matter to me is a healthy baby.”
You know what? I don’t only care about my baby. I care about myself too. I care about recovery times, damage to my perineum, my ability to have many children in the future, my emotional well being and sense of satisfaction garnered from my childbirth experience, my ability to breastfeed with a body free of chemicals and extraneous fluids, my ability to bond with my child and feel oxtyocin coursing through my body after the birth.
So no, having a safe, healthy child is not my only goal. I could never compound such a complicated process down to such a statement, and I don’t think other women should be doing so either.
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Jamie Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 1:17 am
Do you realize how selfish this comment makes you sound? Do you realize that you’re saying that your “dream experience” is more important to you than your babies health? Do you realize that by denying what is best for your baby you are putting risks on it’s life… Do you realize that if something happened to your baby it would be your fault?
Your talk about how you’ve been “educating” yourself, when in reality you’ve been reading research that supports your fantasy birth, yet you’re ignoring any research that contradicts what you want. This doesn’t equate to being educated my friend, it equates to being ignorant.
Jenna, you really need to sit down and think about what is best for your baby. That is what any caring mother would do.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Ok and I just read that passionate response. Should have just written an entire post instead of a comment as it likely now feels like an attack on you. Not meant that way! Please consider it an attack on the way of thinking, not you personally!
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HamiHarri Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Jenna, to me anything other than a healthy baby as an outcome is bonus.
I really truly hope you get the birth experience you desire, because I fear if you don’t you many have some serious dissapointment to overcome. And with all the research you’ve been doing, I know you’ve seen how THAT can prohibit healthy bonding with you LO.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
The thing is, if Jenna prepares properly she will be better able to handle whatever outcome she has that is not her ideal.
Adequate preparation for birth isn’t just for one specific birthing process (specifically the non-intervention, natural route that she seems to be hinting at), but it’s preparation for many (if not all-although that’s really difficult) of the variations that can come during the laboring and birthing processes.
A woman that is unprepared will not know when faced with certain difficulties that she SHOULD or should NOT have the c-section the doctor is recommended… or whatever is necessary and will later feel the lack of fulfillment/guilt/etc. A woman that is prepared and knows what the best route is when certain predicaments arise can know what she should do. And although she may be managing more pain and feelings than ever before, she will likely have the faculties to make a decision she will feel comfortable with and later know she did the best thing. The whole being out of my mind unable to think thing is not everyone’s reality. Especially if you prepare.
Preparation for birth is not just physical, isn’t not just researching and reading, it’s mental, emotional, and yes, even spiritual. That’s why birth can be such a beautiful or tragic experience, because it taxes/tests every part of us and if we aren’t prepared it isn’t what it could be, and that’s what hurts the most after all is said and done.
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Erin Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I’ve said (and I think I wrote this in a comment a long time ago) that I’m working really hard to get in shape (not metaphorically) in the year before we start TTC because I’ve been told that labor is like a marathon (simile not metaphor).
Heart and lungs in good shape, flexible, strong back, etc. I’m sure some people meant “marathon” to be a metaphor - but as a simile it makes sense to me.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:57 am
i’m guessing you’re in group 1. i applaud you. my massage therapist had a home birth with her first child and will have another with her second due in april. that is as group 1, i believe, as a woman can be. while that is not for everyone, womens’ bodies are made for child birth. the pains of labor are supposed to happen. i am looking forward to my mountain climb someday…
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September 25th, 2009 on 12:06 pm
Haha oh running a marathon is not at all homogeneous. Each mile is ridiculously different - highs and lows etc etc. Not to nitpick
I think you’re group 1 bc it sounds like you’re doing a great job researching & preparing yourself to make the most educated decisions for you!
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schmei Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
I’ve always liked the marathon reference because a marathon takes months of training and hours of difficult physical exertion.
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Kathryn Speyer Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
I agree with this, having run two marathons myself. There’s tons of training involved, and tons of different types of runners. Some train more, some train less, some fail to train. And the marathon (labor in this analogy?) is different for everyone. Skilled runners can knock one out no problem. Ultramarathoners scoff at a mere 26.2 miles. To new runners it seems impossible. The beginning may be easy, or you may push too hard. Toward the end, you may feel great, or you may be in terrible pain and hallucinating. Whatever the case, it’s a great accomplishment once you’ve finished, even if you limp across the line!
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September 25th, 2009 on 12:25 pm
I’ve pondered my response to this entry for a while now, and it comes down to a couple of things:
1. Props to you for sharing what you believe, even if it makes people (including me) a bit uncomfortable.
2. The women I know who have had intervention-free births claim it is the proudest moment of their lives.
3. If what you say in this particular entry angers me, it is probably because I am not as equally passionate about my birth choices.
ETE is several years down the road for my husband and I, but when we’re there, we’ll research, pray, and come to a conclusion together about what is best for our family. At that time, I’m sure I will be as passionate about my decision as you are about yours. You’ve given me/us a great place to start our research.
Out of curiosity, what role has TH played in the research/decision process?
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
As far as his role, we decided to get pregnant together, but this pregnancy/childbirth experience is all mine now. I communicate with him as I make decisions, and he objects if he feels the need, but I think he knows this is a time in his life when the only thing he can really do is sit in the passenger seat. I’m the one who will be ultimately holding the steering wheel and directing where things go.
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Ann Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 9:13 am
I feel really sad for you in this and your poor husband. How selfish of you to go it alone your acting as if he is just here to give you sperm. My husband and I did all the research together because and I quote his words exactly “That is my baby too!”. And this is a true statement this isn’t your journey its your family’s journey and you need a team of support for you on that day i was so happy that we went to all the classes birthing and parenting together, that we read all the books together and that we came to our choice of birth together because when the moment came we were a team and we worked beautifully in action because he knew how to do all the things I needed and we were fighting for the same birthing experience and same goal a happy healthy baby which I know I know thats not your end goal. And at the risk of being chastised let me give you some advice Let you husband be involved in the decisions this is important for him too it helps with the father bonding and also realize that as a mother even well educated mother the only thing you should ever ever want out of life is to have a healthy happy baby no matter what the cost and just to put this into perspective I had a natural labor in a hospital with a regular doctor
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September 25th, 2009 on 12:46 pm
After thinking about this more I’d suggest that there’s another side to group #1 and those are the women that don’t do any (or much) research and still choose to have home births or go natural just because they’re afraid of/hate hospitals and doctors, but don’t actually prepare for real emergencies. People who are easily persuaded by others often make poor choices because they think “oh, that sounds wonderful!” about a friend who just had a home birth or a friend who just had an epidural and think that’s the best way to go without actually learning about it for themselves.
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Megan Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Exactly what I was thinking!
I worry about how many of these women are unkowingly carrying infections that could potentially harm their child (IE: StrepB) and are not taking the proper precautions they would if they were educated on the subject(s).
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September 25th, 2009 on 12:56 pm
I like your analogy, but you forgot one thing. When you get to the top of the mountain in the helicopter, instead of gently setting down and escorting you off, they push you out from 20 feet up
I think people who choose an elective cesarean to avoid the pain of labor forget about that part (I know YOU know, Jenna!).
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Ah yes! See one of my replies above. I don’t want a c-section for that very reason. I’ll take even 40 hours of natural labor over 6 weeks of recovery any day.
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:07 pm
I applaud you. You’re actually being very careful & politically correct in your posts, and I’m not quite that understanding. While I don’t think a woman is a bad person if she has an elective c-section because she wants to avoid labor pains & waiting for the baby to come naturally, I think it’s a bad choice based on bad ethics. She may be educated and still make that choice, but overall - the choice, in my opinion, is wrong.
I guess what I’m saying is that I’m glad you can put it more eloquently than I can.
Neat little analogies, I like it!
I’m guessing you’re in Group 1, as most people who have done a good amount of research & self-reflection probably would be.
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:12 pm
Hey Jenna,
Being 8 weeks away from delivery, I’m always interested in what other people are doing for their birth plans. A family friend is a doula/midwife and has given me all of her study materials and books ranging from VBACs to surgical births, home births and birth centers, and complete hospital deliveries as well. I consider myself very well read on this subject.
At first, I was one of those “I want the drugs and I want them now” women. I have reasons for this: 1.) I have vasovagal syncope, a reaction to pain in which I pass out. I hit my elbow and pass out. Imagine childbirth? 2.) Extremely bad asthma, which my OB worries might interfere with my ability to breathe/stay conscious 3.) I am small. I have small hips and a small pelvis, but I am already carrying a baby that weighs 4lbs or more, with two more months to bake. My husband is 300 lbs and over 14″ taller than I am. The doctor is not sure I can even have her vaginally. I researched hospitals, OB offices and labor/delivery nurses while I was TTC, and came to choose the various “helpers” because of all the research. My OB is not a c-sec pusher. She wants the best for me, AND the baby. She will not break my waters, she will not pitocin me, she will not induce me unless there is a problem. My OB group will NOT give elective c-section. I feel VERY confident that they are trying to do everything they can to give me the birth I want.
My brother was born in a birth center after 72 hours of labor. His cord was wrapped around his neck twice, and he was blue. He weighed 4lb5oz and was not early. He died twice in that birthing center, and only lived because they transferred him to a hospital nearby. He had been in fetal distress for days.
A friend of mine had a home birth. During her labor, while filling up the tub for the water birth, she had cord prolapse. They were able to make it to the hospital in time to save the baby. If she hadn’t had the pushing of her husband to do this, the baby would have died. She is VERY educated, and had done everything she could to ensure the delivery was safe and perfect. Sometimes things change.
I’m not giving you all these scary stories to pass the fear, I’m saying that everyone is different and plan different things, what they assume are best for them. I must say that more than 50% of the moms I know had their deliveries turn out completely different from their birth plans. This is why I’m one of the “I’d like a natural, but I’ll see”, because we have no idea if I can deliver the way I want- naturally.
Will I be disappointed if my already vague birth plan goes differently (c-sec/tearing/whatnot)? I don’t know yet, which is one of those questions about birth. All I DO know is that yes, I DO want a healthy baby. If I was in any of the above cases I have listed, would I care more about needing a c-section or having my baby die? Cut that baby out, she needs to BREATHE. Then again, I think that’s part of being a mother, putting your child first, right?
It’s funny, because my husband wants me to deliver any way that will cause me the least amount of damage, whatever is safest for ME. Given the choice, he wants me to live, if it should come down to his wife or his daughter. Some people just aren’t able physically to birth their children, and it’s really hard to hear people constantly ask, “Are you really not sure what you want for your birth?” because it’s not ME who isn’t sure, it’s my baby.
I figure I can read, study, go to classes and watch films all I want, but it doesn’t guarantee things will work as well as I had planned. I consider myself lucky, though. I love having the chance to educate myself and know what my options are.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Interesting note about your husband Amber. I’m a little saddened actually by the “self-sacrifice” I see in women (along with ignorance, as I’ve made quite clear) because I do think maternal morbidity/mortality is just as important as fetal morbidity/mortality. We don’t always have to sacrifice one to save the other, you know?
Sounds like you found a great OB! I’ve never heard of that awful low-pain tolerance condition you have. Must be tough to deal with. Have you looked into the HypnoBirthing/Baby ways of thinking which emphasize that childbirth doesn’t have to be about pain? They might teach you some techniques that help you deal with it. I hope you get your vag birth but it sounds like you know your options and are well-educated about them. I think that’s the best thing a mother can do for both herself AND her baby.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
When I was pregnant with my daughter my m.i.l. shared a story about how when they were preparing for one of their babies (6 total) they came across some material researched & written by a doctor in which it was noted that what we feel and call pain is actually tightening of the uterus. It’s only “pain”-ful because our muscles aren’t getting enough oxygen. It’s an interesting thought…
Of course, she also mentioned that when in labor and having difficulty my f.i.l. tried to remind her it was just “tightening” and she gave him the death stare and he stopped… ;D
Have you been practicing your breathing? If so, what kind of breathing are you practicing??
When I was preparing for labor I remembered my sis’s stories about it and how different her breathing was than the type on tv and in most birth classes. I read The Birth Partner and the manner/position it describes for breathing helps achieve the type my sister told me about. I felt a little like a crazy woman doing it, but it sent vibrations throughout my body, gave me something to focus on, and relieved the pain amazingly.
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Amber Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Evelyn, it sucks because the mix between my insane asthma and the vasovagal syncope makes it very hard to breathe through anything. When I give blood, I pass out. I know it’s coming- the pain, but I just can’t breathe through it. My asthma is terrible, any kind of quick breathing, any deep breathing, any huffs… it’s all super hard. I breathe at 40% the lung ability as a normal non-sufferer.
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Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Amber, My friend had Pre-eclampsia so severe, she nearly died. Unfortunately, the baby pass away. It was too early for the baby to be born, and the mother was in very bad shape. It was a difficult journey for both my friends. her husband mirrored the same feelings your husband had regarding wanting to have his wife alive and well. My friends decided not to conceive again and were blessed to adopt a health baby boy. 4 years since the loss of their baby, When I speak to my friends husband, he still conveys (with a lot of emotion) how he couldn’t bear to see his wife go through what she did or even bear the thought of nearly losing her again.
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A Bride...Again Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Amber,
There are others our there who also suffer with vaso-vagal responses and make it through just fine. I am one such mother. I almost didn’t make it through the IV stick…but since I couldn’t see the epidural, it didn’t bother me as much. I can still see the scar on my wrist from the IV and if I think about it too much, yes it bothers me and I get queasy.
Because of my condition, my OB encouraged me to have the epidural. I had no scary side-effects or after-effects that have been mentioned. I had my daughter vaginally with minimal pushing and tearing. My recovery period was not prolonged and no instruments were needed to get her out. By the time the birth happened, the epidural was acutally almost gone, so I feel like I did experience child birth…in the best way that I could.
Keep hope and stay strong! We’ll all hope that you (and everyone else who’s commented here) have successful births, no matter which manner they choose to have them.
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:25 pm
I’ll go along with a few others and say that I don’t believe that these groups are mutually exclusive. In my situation, the research that I’m doing (mostly looking into actual scientific studies and not relying on books) is pretty specific to my situation. I may have to rely heavily on drugs during my birth just to make it even happen vaginally. My body does not translate “pain” in a normal way, and therefore the reaction that may happen in childbirth might be detrimental to my child without intervention. Then again, those triggers may not fire during labor, and I might be just fine on my own… it’s just I have to know what is up. Guess you’ll view me as taking an assisted ride up the hill, when in reality my journey might be stalled by the lack of a leg or two from the start. None of it will be “easier” for me… and medicine just might be able to make it close to a normal pain experience.
In all honesty, I’m just really over the “mommy battles” and it’s why I stay far away from pregnancy discussions as they often seem to melt into a “who is better” issue time and time again, and it just turns into a parenting battle after that. People make choices all the time based on their priorities, and I’m really tired of hearing that someone is “uneducated” if they make a choice that is different from theirs. I know lots of people who read pure junk science on the internet and in books who take what they read as dire hard facts and consider themselves well-read and educated. I, personally, like to talk to friends who have their MDs and PhDs and MAs (in nursing) to ask what to read and what studies are shams (red alert: lots of research is pure hogwash based on methodologies and bad statistics). I think I’m pretty balanced in my knowledge and opinions, but in no way will I enter the “mommy wars” when it comes to these discussions. I’ll also stay away from “working/stay at home mom” and “breastfeeding” and “organic only” and…. the list goes on… I’ve found that mom’s can be a pretty cruel group of people.
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eZ Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Well said on the mommy wars and the cruelness often experienced when those hot button issues are discussed.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
This is where things get tough I think, because I have comments like yours that say “just stay out of it and let people be because the mommy wars are awful” and then I have a comment from another girl (on this post or another I’m not sure) saying “I hadn’t ever really thought about anything other than a hospital/epidural/etc and now I will look into my options and be more proactive.”
I was talking to a friend the other day who just had her baby and when I told her I was doing out of hospital she wanted to know how I would get an episiotomy then. Seriously, she walked out of the hospital thinking that a 4th degree episiotomy went hand-in-hand with a vaginal birth. I felt so awful for her, and I feel awful thinking that if she ever has another child she will walk into the experience thinking she HAS NO CHOICE but to go through that again.
There is no way to write about this while staying 100% objective. I just can’t do it, I feel too passionately about the things I’ve read. But I hope that by writing about my own experience and feelings I will only alienate a few, while educating many. Today I was thinking, waht would be the best thing that could happen because of my posts? I realized it would be having one person, like my sister (who I think would be a #3 sign me right up never do any research kind of girl) think about her birth experience and take charge a little bit more. Yes, wading into the waters is tough, and you are going to piss off a few people when you do it, but if it saves one person from unnecessary harm isn’t it worth it?
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Kimberly Michelle Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I think talking about your own experience and the reasons/research that you’ve used to make your choice is fine.This categorizing wasn’t any of that. It just labeled and judged people on your outward perceptions of their individual choices. I can see false assumptions in each of the justifications you chose, obviously based what you’ve obviously encountered. This is what I find icky about bringing up the subject in this way… it’s inherently judgey and mean… but it happens all the time with women when babies come into the discussion.
A post that showed what you’ve learned from research that changed your preconceptions would have accomplished your original goal in a much more productive way.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Jenna wrote the post and she’s gotten a lot of different reactions, but have you noticed that while some people think it’s really judgmental others got something different out of it, others (who aren’t even in the mother/mother-to-be phase) have really liked it? I think while we can say oh, you’re just being judgmental, maybe we can also say that perhaps she’s trying to trigger emotions or curiosity so women will investigate, research, and be an active participant rather than be a passive participant in the process.
While Jenna is attempting to educate her peers on an option that has been poo-pooed on for YEARS, her main focus seems to be that she is trying to just encourage women to educate themselves so that whatever the route is that they take, they’ll know what their getting into. That seems to be a rampant problem in the past, and today.
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LittlestBirds Reply:
October 6th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I sympathize with your desire to inspire others to consider natural birth, but have you considered that the fact that some have told you they felt judged by your choice of language might have driven away a lot of people who could possibly have become interested in natural birth? I see this as analagous to when we try to convince other people to explore a particular religious faith; if they feel judged, they’re going to feel pushed farther away instead of drawn in.
I noticed you were a big fan of the blogger Dooce’s birthing posts. I know she isn’t your style at all, but perhaps in this matter you could take a page from her book. She described the natural birthing experience in a way that was brutally honest but that also made even the most hard-line nonbeliever think twice about how wonderful it sounded. There was never a hint, a breath, a word of judgment or condemnation for those who chose a different type of birth. She didn’t say a thing that would make an epidural-taking-mother feel guilty. Just something to think about - I know it must be a challenging process for you, speaking on such a large platform, trying to figure out how to reach people in the most positive manner. Good luck.
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:31 pm
Have you ever read this tale of natural birth? I’ve witnessed a couple home births (we have a family friend who is a home birth doctor) but this is what really made me seriously consider going natural, whether it’s at home or not. It’s so inspiring! (especially from the father’s perspective!)
http://pacingthepanicroom.blogspot.com/2009/07/birth-of-tessa-tangerine.html
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:57 pm
I’ve never commented but I loved this post- It was so cute.
I just want to say, climbing an actual mountain for me was WAY easier than labor and delivery-
Labor was kind of like treading water, that squeezed and kneaded. Maybe I was bread dough? - I was in a different plane of existence.
I was so well prepared but in spite of all preparation things can change. I went from all natural in a birthing center to an emergency c-section. And I fought it tooth and nail. Sometimes? You have to go with plan G!
Once I realized that the only thing that really mattered was holding my baby it changed my priorities.
I will say this about the drugs- I tried stadal? (Sorry, unsure about the spelling) and all it did was take me out of my zone, my concentration place, that helped me get through. I hated it.
The epidural was lovely. Of course I was really really tired at that point. BUT. It didn’t make labor ANY easier. Whether or not you feel some/nothing your body is STILL working just as hard as the woman who is feeling everything.
When I have another baby, I will be having a c-section again, because I know what I want. I want my baby! How it gets here is no longer important to me.
I’m honest with myself. It didn’t work for me last time, and my DR.- lovely woman- who’d just given birth naturally herself, and was a big proponent of natural childbirth, told me that of course, if I had a baby again I could try again, but that the outcome would probably be the same. And then she said something else. “Nature doesn’t care if your baby dies. Nature doesn’t care if you die.”
But I had in my mind the way it “should” be and I was so depressed that I’d failed. My body failed. It took me quite some time to realize that I hadn’t failed- I had a beautiful baby!
The thing that hurt the most and bothers me most about having a c-section is the attitude of women who haven’t. Like I didn’t try, I was lazy, I wasn’t informed. Like my Dr. was stupid and busy and just wanted to be done. And that I’m stupid and LAZY for wanting another c-section.
Pregnancy is hard, however the baby gets here is hard, parenting is hard.
It’s all hard. Too many women turn it into a competition, when in reality no one wins from those types of bad attitudes.
Your post was awesome, btw, I didn’t feel any judgment from you. This is something I feel so passionate about because of the way I have been treated by friends/strangers. My PPD would have been much easier to deal with if I’d been told I’d done something right, instead of the other way around.
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Katy Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Thanks for writing these things. Since my struggles with breastfeeding, I’ve become way less judgemental about that. I was Miss “Way-gung-ho” on breastfeeding, but I know now not to look down on others too quickly.
Like you said - at some point or another - life is hard and this isn’t a competition. We need to share information with each other, then applaud each other’s successes and be understanding of each other.
(I’m a sounding so touchy-feely today - normally I’m not such a bleeding heart…:))
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Ariel Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
And the thing is- you can have things one way for one baby and completely differently for another! Breastfeeding was a CAKEWALK for me, but there are no guarantees next time!
I hope you found peace, whatever you decided to do Katy
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September 25th, 2009 on 1:57 pm
I used to love your blog but I think I’m going to have to stop reading. I’m not trying to be mean or petty or hide behind being anonymous but you know me in real life so I don’t want you to know who I am. I know that you don’t mean to come off the way you do- in fact, I know you try really hard to come off as fair and balanced and not completely rude but you do. Ever since you got pregnant you act like you know so much. You have never even had a baby and reading books is no replacement for actually knowing and experiencing what you are talking about. To act like people get to enjoy a nice “fancy black chopper” who have C sections is the most ignorant thing you have said yet and is very telling of how much you actually know. I think you are a good person and I applaud you for trying to be educated but you can’t just assume that just because people choose a different birth experience than you doesn’t mean they aren’t educated and haven’t spent even more hours than you did studying their options. I hope that your pregnancy goes well and that you get everything that you are expecting. I really do.
Also- I am a member of the church and I think that besides having a loving husband (which I think you do), giving your children an educated mother is the MOST important thing you can can give them. You are doing your child a serious disservice if you can’t even finish school before you STARTED trying.
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Brie Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Wow, who’s judgmental and rude now? The MOST important thing? What is “educated” anyway? A high school diploma? An associates? Bachelors, Masters, PhD? Maybe breastfeeding is the most important thing. Or having a natural birth. Or putting your kid in private school. Maybe, just maybe, loving your child and caring for him and taking care of his needs is the most important thing and we will all get there a different way.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Anon, seriously. I mean that was just sorely rude. Good to know I might be seeing you staring me down and judging me in Stake Conference sometime! Come over and say hi to the baby with the sorely uneducated mother, will ya?
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Emily Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
I agree with anonymous’ first paragraph. This post is rude.
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I’m sorry, I’ve just got to come back and say, do you know anyone who has left the church because someone came up to them and criticized them or hurt them? I do. And it changed the direction of their entire life. I’m strong so your anonymous comment from Allen, TX isn’t going to phase me, but you might want to think more carefully about presenting yourself as an LDS member and then criticizing another member so harshly for something like childbirth/parenting when the role of the family is so integral to the faith.
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Ariel Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
If you don’t have something nice to say you shouldn’t say it at all.
I left the church because of several someones like anonymous and I’m never going back. Ever.
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kay Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Anonymous, I am a counselor and I work with PLENTY of adolescents that are abused by their parents.
Their moms all gave birth. And they are some of the cruelest, most uneducated women you will ever hear about.
Having a baby does not make you more knowledgeable about how to have a baby, just as I said in a previous post - You don’t have to have a bad heart to be a heart surgeon, or have a mental illness to be a kickass psychiatrist. That is faulty thinking.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Educate a woman and you educate a nation.
I was told that by someone close to me after I made the decision to put my bachelors on hold (before getting engaged, but that was the phase I was in at the time of the conversation) and after expression of disappointment.
I believe I mentioned to some extent then, but I have been working on something regarding it so it was one of my first thoughts when I read your thoughtless comment.
I am certain that it is not the education found in a four wall room that will change a nation. It is the education found in LIFE by seeking to learn in all the opportunities around you (as well as seeking out some opportunities). One of the reasons why I like Jenna and follow her blog is because I believe she is that type of woman and expemplifies it in the things she discusses on her blog.
Sister Marjorie Hinckley didn’t hold a college degree, but she never stopped learning. Jenna may not be married to a future prophet (I’m not saying he’s not that quality, I’m just saying maybe that’s not in his future), but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a Marjorie.
We seek learning out of the best books. Those include the scriptures, classical literature (Illiad, Odyssey, Dickens, Shakespeare, Plato, etc.), history, current advances… etc.
A piece of paper saying you graduated does not make you educated. A woman that gets that piece of paper and then never seeks to continue her education or thinks back on her education offers little of great value to her child(ren).
Also, what of the founding fathers? How many of them graduated from a college or university… oh wait.. um… oh yeah…
Please refrain from passing YOUR judgments. Especially when you attempt to shame Jenna for making her own.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Oops, I meant to revise this thought!
“I believe I mentioned the following to some extent then, but I have been working on something regarding it so these are among some of my immediate thoughts when I read your thoughtless comment.
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Anne Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 8:29 am
Jenna, I’ve found this post very interesting and helpful, and I have no opinions on your education whatsoever, but I just had to respond to Evelyn…
Actually, Evelyn, ALL of the founding fathers graduated from college except for one- George Washington.
John Adams graduated from Harvard, Thomas Jefferson graduated from the College of William and Mary, and James Madison graduated from Princeton.
Just sayin’.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I’m pretty sure our founding fathers are a larger group than you refer to… Many people consider the “key” seven to be the founding fathers: Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton. But really there is the larger group (50 or so), and although it’s not the best source, it is one of the quickest:
“The Founding Fathers had strong educational backgrounds. Some, like Franklin, were largely self-taught or learned through apprenticeship. Others had obtained instruction from private tutors or at academies. About half of the men had attended or graduated from college in the colonies or Britain. Some men held medical degrees or advanced training in theology. For the most part, the delegates were a well-educated group. A few lawyers had been trained at the Inns of Court in London, but most had apprenticed to an American lawyer.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States
The point of all of this is that: while an education in a university is important, it is not the end, and it does not signify being truly educated. One CAN be considered educated without that piece of paper.
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Kelli Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
And NOT be educated WITH that piece of paper
.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Amen sista! =D
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Leanne Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 12:51 am
Anonymous,
Yikes…not only was your “education” comment totally out of line, it is totally out of context… I thought this post was about labor and delivery, not what Jenna was doing in school. (Even if it was about her school, the comment was still rude. Being “educated” is subjective, and is not up to you, or anyone to decide who qualifies as such.)
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September 25th, 2009 on 2:14 pm
I’m having a difficult time with these 4 categories. I think that there are very well read and educated mothers in each of the categories you presented, and also very uneducated mothers in each. (It seems that at this point you consider yourself to be in the first category, and maybe a just a touch biased about it too
I know it’s been said before, but not everyone who chooses drugs is looking for the easy way out. In keeping with the analogy, everyones “mountain” is so very different, it is hard to make assumptions about why others make the decisions they do.
It sounds like you are doing lots of research and will be able to make a well informed decision for what’s best for you and your family though! And, of course, CONGRATS are in order! Motherhood is hard, but has brought me more joy than anything else! I’m excited for you!!
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September 25th, 2009 on 2:16 pm
It’s great that you’re studying and determining what will work best for you. I did that too. I had five children and now that I can look back, I realize that my preparing did more for my state of mind and less for the outcome of the birth experiences themselves. I found it interesting that the side effects of epidural you mentioned (nausea, IV fluids, vomiting, oxygen, etc.) were all things I also experienced without epidural. Be prepared with a strong body and a strong background for what you want, and then be prepared to have less control over some things than you would like. I know you probably don’t want to hear that, but not all women’s bodies work according to the plan. I had the first 2 with epidural - one with way too much, and the next with just the right amount. The third went quicker and I decided to get an epidural but it didn’t work until after he was delivered. From that experience, I went all natural with the next two, but they were longer, one was posterior, one was chemically induced and the other was naturally induced. My body could contract all day and never accomplish the purpose completely without intervention, so due to variables such as baby’s size, baby’s stress or position, or inadequate contractions, all 5 births required something that’s not on your list at all.
I guess I’m trying to suggest that you go into the process empowered, but be prepared for the spirit to tell you what you need to do next.
I wish you much joy in this experience!
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Love this:
“I realize that my preparing did more for my state of mind and less for the outcome of the birth experiences themselves.”
I think the mind is pretty powerful and worth preparing.
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Katy Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
“Be prepared with a strong body and a strong background for what you want, and then be prepared to have less control over some things than you would like. ”
Yes-this is what I’ve been attempting to say, but you’ve put it much more eloquently.
I’m ALL FOR women going with a desire and a plan to make that happen, but to avoid making ourselves feel guilty afterward (or let others make us feel guilty), we must be prepared for plans {possibly} changing.
I also think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote: ” be prepared for the spirit to tell you what you need to do next.”
In the end, that’s truly the key-study, pray, then listen to the Spirit. Perfect!
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September 25th, 2009 on 2:35 pm
While it is important to not use scare tactics, it is JUST as important for women to not hound on each other for making what someone considers to be the “wrong” choice. I already know now that due to physical limitations, unless corrected first with complicated surgery, I will be unable to have a vaginal birth. And you know what? I am 100% fine with a planned c-section if that is all my body can handle. But I am dreading becoming pregnant because of all the shame others will cast down on me for not even wanting to try, without sharing my medical history. It’s none of their business whether or not I can have a vaginal birth; to perhaps suggest a book to read is one thing, but so many women seem to have such a superiority complex about natural childbirth that they just do not stop. So while it is one thing to help a woman up the mountain if she has asked for it, women also need to try to stop trying to drag up everyone else. Just because I will have a pre-planned c-section does not mean I will be less of a mother or have a less worthwhile birthing experience!
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September 25th, 2009 on 3:37 pm
well said Avo! Your analogy was witty and yes, pregnancy, birth, and life should be celebrated. God is good.
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September 25th, 2009 on 3:54 pm
This is as always an interesting, and hot-button topic. Personally I used to think I’d always fall into catergory 3, but after watching two natural births I fall more into 2. Due to a multi-generational history of C-sections, personally being born very sick, and current health concerns, I would never consider a home birth. In my personal case, I believe it to would be irresponsible of me to purposfully give birth without a medical professional nearby. Doesn’t mean I won’t try with a douhla or midwife also in attendance. Oh course I haven’t done any research at this time, so my opinion could change once I have.
It does amaze me how some people choose what’s right for them and won’t accept that something else was right for another person. My sister in-law (an RN) was hoping for a planned C-section, due to suffering from Fibromyalgia(sp?) her research showed that labor could cause a four month flair up. Together with her doctor and husband, they agreed to try a C-section to potentially avoid this flair up. When briefly mentioning this to a friend (a douhlla and CNA) the friend kept going “but she won’t be able to hold her child for a week or two! It’s invasive. She needs to read up on C-sections more.”. She wouldn’t hear the reasoning that my sister-inlaw could be in debilitating pain and unable to care for her child for FOUR MONTHS! Drove me crazy.
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September 25th, 2009 on 4:14 pm
Jenna stated: “You miss out on the bonding with your baby directly after birth”
Jenna! How can you say this! How do you know this! Yes, you may have heard stories - but I’m sure for every story about having problems bf-ing after an epidural or c-section (the first does not follow the second in most cases!!!) there are an equal number of stories stating the contrary! I think it is very risky that you are making these statements, you are basically putting fear into others about having one of these things - whether it is their choice, or is necessary for the safe delivery of baby.
I also think you’re kidding yourself if you think by NOT having an epidural you won’t have an episiotomy.
And yes, I’ve been doing research on these topics for months. I am by no means an expert (who is?) - but I’ve done my homework.
And I can’t repeat this enough: an epidural does not equal c-section!!! Unless of course hospitals do things differently in Texas compared to Canada.
This post is not one of your best Jenna - it is just soooo judge-y!!! It feels like you are discounting other peoples experiences and choices - boo!
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Jenna Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Hami if you’ve done your research you know about skin-to-skin. Even the WHO argues that skin-to-skin immediately after birth is best! (http://apps.who.int/rhl/newborn/gpcom/en/index.html) If you have a c-section, you miss out on immediate skin-to-skin. It’s the best way to go. As the WHO points out, there are negative effects to be found if you miss out, but it’s not shying away in saying that it’s the best thing to do.
Want to know the episiotomy rates in hospitals? 90%. Want to know the intact perineum rate on The Farm? 68.8% What’s the difference? Not the bodies, it’s the care. I won’t be avoiding the episiotomy by avoiding an epdiraul, I’ll be avoiding it by avoiding a doctor. And you know how I came to that conclusion? Education. I read up on it.
I had a friend tell me “Who’s going to do your episiotomy?” I said “WHAT?” She said, “If you don’t have a doctor, who will do your episiotomy for you?” because her doctor told her that episitomies were the rule, not the exception. Her doctor never told her about counter-pressure, extra pressure, and getting up off her back and squatting or changing positions and how those techniques could reduce the
And as far as the epidural/c-section rate goes, I’m just not sure how else to explain it? With an epidural rate of over 65% and a rising c-section rate of over 30%, what is causing the change? Is it the women, are our bodies changing? Again on The Farm they have an epidural rate of 0% and a c-section rate of 1.4%. If it isn’t the epidural that is causing it, it is certainly the intervention based care that we have in America.
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HamiHarri Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
My comment was more on the epidural part - not c-section
i’m just getting frustrated about how closely you’re linking the two. To
me it seems you are grouping the two together.
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Evelyn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I don’t have the links or anything, but there is research out there which shows that women who have an epidural are at an increased risk/likelihood of having a c-section. I believe it’s due to the epidural working so well that it makes it difficult to isolate the muscles and feel how to push (I know you are supposed to be able to lower the dosage around push time, but it’s still a risk of an epidural).
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Michelle Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
FYI Jenna, unless the baby is in distress, you CAN do skin-to-skin immediately following a c-section if you make these wishes known. You can hold baby on your chest even while they sew you up. Your incision is extremely low in your abdomen and does not make skin-to-skin impossible. I know multiple people who have done it.
With my first baby I delivered naturally in a hospital with a midwife. I had really wanted a natural birth, and was in love with the hypnobirthing method. It worked well for the first 12 hours, and then our baby ended up in fetal distress. She did not start crying after birth and had to be rushed away to have her lungs suctioned. (I was thanking God I had her in a hospital and not at home!) I could not, therefore, do skin-to-skin or immediate BF. I walked away with a 4th degree tear. My recovery was an entire agonizing month where I could not bend down, or sit, and later I wondered if I should have just had a c-section. So these “risks” of epidurals/c-sections you’ve read about, are not limited to those scenarios alone! Going natural is not necessarily a recipe for your perfect birth experience.
With my second I did not choose a repeat natural birth. After the month-long recovery, I could no longer judge even women who had elective c-sections! I decided to have an epidural and second vaginal birth. I had a first degree tear, and the only side effect of the epidural I experienced was shivering. This birth was completely different from my first, and was in fact, easier for me- physically and emotionally. Our second daughter also had a much higher APGAR score, and was therefore “healthier” than my natural baby.
I am obviously not your textbook case, but if this post is really all about educating others- I want them to realize that all kinds of factors will affect your birth experience, not just what interventions you choose to have or not have! Often women have complications and are not left much of a choice in how they deliver; don’t be depressed about this! Embrace a “new” plan. Any birth can be spiritual and lovely. (I assume Jenna that if your baby is breech and cannot be turned, you might have to accept a c-section. I assume if you are 2 weeks overdue you would accept inducement rather than risk fetal meconium aspiration, etc. What will you do then? Where will your birth plan go? Will you judge yourself as harshly as you seem to judge others who have had to accept these after desperately wanting a natural birth?)
Your birth posts bother me because while you are very preachy and judgmental, I feel more concerned that if you don’t get your IDEAL PERFECT birth experience- you will be very disappointed. You seem naive to the fact that birth does not always go as planned no matter how much research you do. You seem to judge others if they had to adapt or change their birth plans based on circumstances and health factors; basically “If you didn’t get your perfect birth experience it is YOUR FAULT because you didn’t research enough or push hard enough for what you wanted” etc.
If your baby is in distress (doctors don’t make this up- look at the heart rate monitor!), are you really going to refuse interventions? You would rather put your baby’s life at risk and have your “perfect” experience? Because like you said, you “don’t care just about the baby, your care about YOUR experience of a, b, c, d, e…”
I’m sorry, but, how selfish.
As someone who has done it twice, and is about to do it again in just 5 weeks, I can tell you that birth rarely goes according to plan. Research is fabulous, but at the end of the day, you have to be completely flexible and open to ANYTHING that will get you and the baby safely through it.
Plain and simply, I think your opinions and thoughts would be more valid if you had actually given birth. You seem very naive.
You can read and study about going to the Moon as much as you want. You can watch movies and read interviews by people who have been there. But until you have been there, until you have experienced the sensations and the emotions, will you truly be an expert? If you are on a list to be sent up to the Moon in the near future- by all means, research, study, prepare. But please, share your experiences when you get back. Otherwise you just come off and naive, and mmm, yes, UNEDUCATED.
Also, OT but- have you ever considered that the difference in c-section rates at hospitals and “The Farm” is largely due to the fact that high-risk babies should NEVER be delivered “on the farm”? There are other factors at work here. I do not deny that some, perhaps many, c-sections are unnecessary, but for ages people have used and skewed statistics to their advantage while not everything is truly being said. I would think someone who reads as many studies as you profess to, would be able to see some of the underlying factors behind such results.
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Tanne Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
FABULOUSLY said Michelle! I’ve been struggling to put down exactly how I felt about this post and you said EXACTLY what was on my mind!
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Anon Reply:
October 24th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Uh. Hmm. You do come off as a know it all. I hope that nothing horribly wrong happens to your baby as a result of your selfishness. BTW- I had two c-sections and I had skin-to-skin contact with both my babies immediately after birth and started breastfeeding before they even closed me up- so not sure where you get your info but some of it is plain wrong.
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Jenna Reply:
October 24th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Anecdotal evidence proves nothing. One time I had a bladder distention for interstitial cystitis and haven’t had any symptoms since. Most patients have to have the surgery every few years to have those kind of results. It’s great that you had the kind of experience you wanted, but you do understand that the data doesn’t agree that this is the norm, right?
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Anon Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
It does prove something: you stated that you couldn’t have skin-to-skin contact after a c-section. I did. Therefore, I proved you wrong.
I feel sorry for you because you want to control this whole thing and you can’t! I hope you wake up and realize you are no longer in the driver’s seat. This really isn’t about the day or two you will spend giving birth, it is more about the lifetime after that. Your perseverance in focusing on just the pregnancy and birth and not the *child* your body is nurturing is immature and selfish. Having a baby is when you learn to care about something other than yourself, more than yourself- not just about getting attention and having showers thrown for you. I hope you get that.
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September 25th, 2009 on 4:46 pm
Hmmm. I’ve never commented on your posts, but I feel compelled to comment this time. I’m not a mother, nor pregnant, though my mother gave birth to my brother and I at home in the 80s when it was unheard of, and I worked as a secretary for an OB-GYN who specialized in home births for awhile. I understand the arguments for the natural crowd (and at this point, hope to be able to try to do the same), though I don’t think that making any other decision is any less valid.
I don’t understand how you feel so certain of everything at this stage, without ever having given childbirth. Every experience is different, and not everything can be planned for. While you cloak your analogies of women taking ATVs and helicopters (!) to the top with claims that “Educated women should stand up for their decisions and feel proud of them, for whatever decision they make”, well, forgive me, but I find it hard to believe that you really do feel that way.
I have a few women in my life, who for various reasons, were not able to have the birth go as they had wished. There is no end of guilt-tripping from other women, both in real life and online, and I know some of them have felt terrible about not being able to measure up to someone else’s standards (or even their own, when things went wrong). We need to respect all women’s decisions, if not as equally valid or appealing to us, then on the level of us all being independent adults with differing life circumstances. I do wonder if you’ll have a bit of a laugh at your self-assurance in this post a few years down the line.
I certainly hope that your birth goes the way you plan for it. But if it doesn’t, I hope you’re not subjected to the very same judgement you’re passing on your blog. I can’t imagine what it feels like after having a c-section to be told that you took the easy wa out.
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September 25th, 2009 on 5:25 pm
I think you’re group number one. Im planning on becoming pregnant about 2 years after my wedding ( my wedding is April 2010). I already know I will be group 3. This decision is not unresearched, I have about 30 pregnancy books sitting in my bookshelf, on all sorts of topics and Ive read them all. Ive had very painful period pain for 5 years, so bad that I vomit, up to 9 times in a row because of the pain. I imagine the pain of contractions would be worse than that! So I decided that when the time comes I would take the best drugs available… I havent quite decided which way I’ll go with the drugs as Im not even pregnant yet. I dont know how the health system is where you live, but Im Australian and if you have private health insurance (which I do and will then) you get the best doctors and are treated really well in the hospital and choose to deliver whatever way you want. Actually, one of my friends who didnt have private health was told by her baby doctor to ‘just come in when you cant stand up anymore becuse of the pain’! I think thats apalling. My mother had two caesareans for my brother and I. She did start out having me naturally, but I really didnt want to come and after ages of trying,the epidural didnt help for the pain and she had an emergency caesarean. Due to her experience I am not opposed to a caesarean, although Id like to try to birth naturally but if that doesnt work, Im absolutely fine with a caesarean. I find the ‘too posh to push’ phrase rude and uneducated. Delivering a baby is difficult and whatever way it is done, has after effects.. whether it be a painful scar, an epesiotomy or simply the difficulty of sex after delivery. Childbirth is something most women will have to go through. I think its about time women stop being critical and start accepting that different methods of childbirth are best for different people.
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HamiHarri Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Well said Emily!
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kay Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Emily - many books, movies, and research articles (and testimonials from other women) will assure you that labor does not necessarily feel like period pain. Some women think it feels like a bad stomach ache, others think it feels like they need to use the restroom, some women find it feels like muscle spasms, and other women find it feels almost orgasmic! These are REAL stories by REAL women - just as real as all the horror stories women spread around. There are HAPPY stories of HAPPY births that are pain-free, or CLOSE to pain-free! At many birthing centers and home births, this is the norm.
Just wanted to throw that out there, because that’s not always what the pain feels like and the contractions are more all-encompassing and different sometimes than period pain.
Maybe it wouldn’t be for you, who knows!
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Emily Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Yeh, Ive heard that! I will think about it a bit more when I am pregnant, obviously. My period pain experiences just made me realise I can’t cope with too much pain, and deffinately wouldnt be able to for too many hours, if it is anything like period pain. I tend to vomit when in pain, so thats probably also not too good when your having a baby.
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Regina Lynn Reply:
September 25th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Many women vomit while in labor. Not from the pain, just from all that their body is going through and all the hormones that are flowing.
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September 25th, 2009 on 6:41 pm
I am too lazy to read all of your responses but I HAD to say that as a marathon runner, it is anything but a homogeneous ‘putting one foot in front of the other’ type of thing. Oh if it were that simple. It’s truly a personal experience, different for every single runner, and it’s all about being inside your own head.
I think the comparison between marathons and labor is totally dead on…but maybe that’s because I know the mental obstacles and constant ups and downs of the marathon itself and also the training. My experience was like nobody else’s which to me is the opposite of ‘homogeneous’.
Also, I’m reading the book ‘The Best Birth’ right now, not to be confused with ‘Your Best Birth’ by Ricki Lake. I’m totally loving it and think you might too. But watch out….they do mention the marathon comparison!
The biggest thing they focus on is that as long as the baby and mom are healthy in the end, then it was a success—NOT a failure, even if drugs were used or if a c-section was needed. I think you need to be careful not to get TOO honed in on your plan because if something goes astray, I wouldn’t want you to feel let down or like a ‘failure.’ It seems like a lot of women carry that guilt afterwards feeling like their birth story was ‘wrong’….but really, the healthy baby at the end is the goal, not a ‘perfect birth’, right?
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Ellie Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I agree totally with this! I run long distances - and everybody does it differently. Technically everybody runs - but some people do it wearing leg braces, or with custom orthotics, or fancy shoes, or hats. Some people do it by pre-emptively taking tylenol or advil before the race. Some people do it by using steroids. Some people have a coach. Some people blister. Other people don’t. I think its very similar to childbirth.
And because you’re going to say that a c-section is nothing like natural childbirth but everyone who runs a marathon runs it? A C-section is the marathon runner who breaks her foot during the race after months of training and feels horrifically disappointed in herself as she is taken to the hospital in the ambulance and watches the rest of the race on TV. Then she recovers while she hears people talk about how tough you have to be to complete the marathon and how people that drop out are pathetic quitters.
The epidural woman? She follows a run-walk pattern that reduces stress on her joints and works for her.
The what-moves-me woman? She’s wearing a leg brace and custom orthotics, but she run the whole time, stopping at the water stations she needs to stop at.
The natural birth woman? Wears those crazy barefoot running shoes. Lectures the people in real shoes along the route. Acts like she’s better than everyone else, whereas in reality she’s just lucky that she is built more naturally for running and hasn’t experienced any complications.
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Robin Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 2:41 am
I love your marathon analogy, Ellie. Well written and I think the most similar to what different women experience in childbirth. I hate it when those that do the natural thing make others feel bad for not being as tough and wonderful as them especially if they haven’t actually given birth yet! Don’t dare tell this to a woman thinking of trying natural, but everything workign out the way you want it IS a great deal of luck, no matter how much you prepare. It’s so vain and presumptious to assume that everything will just go perfect because that’s the way you expect it to happen and, oh,
you’ve read lots of books. Having a perfect childbirth and perfect end result child is such a fortunate thing, not something that just happens to everyone.
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missbutton Reply:
September 30th, 2009 at 2:59 am
I wasn’t going to comment, but I think this analogy is SO perfect. (I have done the running thing, and not the birth thing, by the way…)
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September 25th, 2009 on 6:50 pm
oh geez, nevermind. I read some of your replies and apparently having a healthy baby is NOT your goal.
Also, the book I mentioned is all about the father being a huge role in labor and delivery, being a teammate and someone to keep you focused-but it sounds like this might be ‘all yours’ to handle. Eek! We are so different on these accounts but to each her own, I suppose.
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September 25th, 2009 on 8:10 pm
Ah, Jenna, please know that among all these ‘offended’ people, I still agree with most everything you’ve said and want to encourage you in your quest for YOUR perfect birth (although, as we all know, best laid plans and all that…). Keep putting your opinions out there- even if people are offended or rumpled by them, at least it gets them thinking and maybe doing their own research.
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September 25th, 2009 on 9:28 pm
i’m about 5 mths pregnant and deep in all this, too.
it’s a super hot topic, and super personal - so i’m not gonna say much. mostly here to make a quick comment re: episiotomies.
i, too, have been really worried about them. but after talking with
a) my ob
b) my friend who’s a dr
c) my friend who just gave birth
and reading a bunch of super recent periodicals, the episiotomy rates are actually more like 20 percent now in hospitals. in our mother’s generation, it was way, way high, but i’ve been assured things have really changed.
…just my two cents!
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September 25th, 2009 on 9:40 pm
As if I haven’t already commented enough…
I think the reason the nurse told me that was because of the physical exertion required during it and the way you feel later, but I think the comparison you reject could be relevant as well… for certain birthers… I mean, there are always marathon runners who are unprepared or somehow end up getting to the finish line via golf carts… ;D
[Others have explained the validity of the comparison better, but I thought those were valid points as well. =)]
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September 25th, 2009 on 9:43 pm
I have never posted before but I just couldn’t NOT post this time. I have been pretty impressed with everything you’ve had to say up until this post. I have been very impressed with how you’ve continually honored your husband and how you’ve sought to protect your marriage in spite of some very vile comments. I’ve thought very highly of how you seek to honor the Lord in all that you do. I know in my heart that you are a good person, I honestly do. However, with this post, and some of your subsequent comments, I think you have WAY overstepped your bounds. Yes, it is your blog and you are free to voice your opinion and I totally respect that. This time, however, much of what you are stating you are presenting as fact and it is simply not true or is still a matter of your opinion even though you state it as fact.
Jenna, you may have done what you think is thorough research - online research, reading books and maybe even talking with other moms. However, just because something is printed online or even in a book does not make it a fact. You would be surprised at how much medical info online is bogus. Aside from that, NOTHING will ever make you as knowledgeable as you think you are about this subject until you actually go through your pregnancy, through labor and then deliver your sweet precious baby. NOTHING. You can plan and prepare and plan some more but you do NOT know what you are going to do until your baby’s birth day arrives. Then, I PROMISE you, all bets are off. You may deliver him/her just exactly as you have planned. Or, the whole world may come crashing in on you when, Lord forbid, the beautiful thing arrives 12 weeks early! You just NEVER know what is going to happen and how you and your body is going to handle it.
Never in your wildest dreams can you begin to imagine what labor and delivery is like. It is like the worst feeling and the best feeling that has every happened to you, all at the same time.
Am I an expert in this? Well, not exactly, but I would say I’m probably more of an expert than most anyone else who has commented today. I have not only had 3 beautiful daughters myself, but I have also personally delivered over 30 babies while working as a paramedic for a major metropolitan EMS service, helped deliver many, many more as I did my hospital rotations during my training and then I worked for an OB/GYN for several years. Oh, and I assisted when my 2 grandsons were born. Glory be, how awesome was that!?! So, yes, I do have a lot of education when it comes to this.
With that said, I DO NOT object to any particular method or location of delivery. I also feel strongly that every woman should have the right to choose ANY type of assistance she feels necessary during her delivery and then be free from any condemnation afterward (and before for that matter!)
To be completely honest and quite frank, I think you have been very disrespectful to a lot of women here today who have already had children and perhaps even lost a baby during the birthing process. I don’t think there is a decent mother out there who knowingly puts her personal comfort ahead of the SAFETY and WELL BEING of her unborn child. Do some mothers listen to their doctor and do what they say? Yes! That’s what they pay them to do - inform them what is good for them and for their babies. Is that wrong? Sometimes it might turn out to be. However you can’t condemn a mother for doing that just because YOU feel opposed to it. There is no absolute right or wrong here. There are going to be good and bad outcomes in every single scenarios you have listed.
Last but not least, these comments by you really and truly disturbed me:
Jenna - “You know what? I don’t only care about my baby. I care about myself too. I care about recovery times, damage to my perineum, my ability to have many children in the future, my emotional well being and sense of satisfaction garnered from my childbirth experience, my ability to breastfeed with a body free of chemicals and extraneous fluids, my ability to bond with my child and feel oxtyocin coursing through my body after the birth. So no, having a safe, healthy child is not my goal.”
Wow. I would ALWAYS be willing to give up all the me-me-me stuff as long as my baby was born healthy! (I’m sure many moms who have lost their precious little ones would agree!) I can handle a prolonged recovery time, damage to my perineum, my ability to have other children (I could always adopt), my sense of satisfaction (I WOULD be satisfied with my healthy baby, even if it was the only one I could ever have), my ability to breastfeed (yes, it is ideal but I’d rather have a healthy baby who took a bottle), my ability to bond with my baby instantly (I bonded with every single one of my babies just fine even though I held them for just a brief minute or so and then they were swooped off to the Isolette).
Girlfriend, I think you have a lot left to learn and I agree with one of the posters above who said she thinks you will look back at this post and laugh, or perhaps even be embarrassed by it in a year or two down the line. I just have to say you really do not have a grasp on what you are talking about but it is only because you have not yet experienced it.
I truly wish you the best.
Blessings,
Joy
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kate Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
A-freakin’-men. My husband and I do not plan on TTC for another year and a half, and until I met him, I didn’t really want children. At this moment, I LOVE my “selfish” lifestyle - being able to travel, go out when we want to, purchase frivolous items, etc. But when I get pregnant, that child will become our first priority and however he or she chooses to make his or her appearance into this world, I will be 100% thrilled with a happy, healthy baby! Would I love to give birth naturally, without an episiotomy, and have an easy recovery time? Yes! Will I beat myself up if things don’t go according to plan but I end up with a gorgeous, healthy child? NO!
Jenna, you and I live very different lifestyles but I always appreciate reading your point of view. I found this post judgmental and (I imagine) extremely offensive to women who have chosen a different path for childbirth. Sharing your experiences and the resources you’ve researched and read? Helpful. Cutting down other women for their decisions in what is probably the most personal experience a woman can go through? Hateful.
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Mojito Maven Reply:
September 29th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
I have to ditto Kate here. I think it would be far better to dicuss YOUR own methods and why you chose them, not what every other woman is doing. Everyone is different.
Like Kate, we live very different lives (number one being we don’t want children), but not only your post but some of your follow up comments had me shaking my head. Granted I know NOTHING of childbirth, having a baby, raising a child, etc, but to be frank, neither do you. So you’ve done some research? Awesome. That is a step in the right direction. But you haven’t ever actually pushed out a baby. I have a dear friend who recently went through an incredibly painful and intensive child birth. I would imagine this post would really upset her.
I genuinely value your opinion and enjoy reading your blog, but even for someone that does not want children, this post was painful and hurtful for even me to read.
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September 25th, 2009 on 9:53 pm
Just one brief comment to say that I agree with Julie- running a marathon is So Not Homogenous. Saying it’s starting at the gun and running to the finish line one step at a time is like saying childbirth is starting with a baby, waiting til you’re dialated and pushing til it comes out- reasonably accurate but oversimplistic.
I’m not convinced it’s the BEST metaphor, or that your mountain one isn’t better, but it’s anything but homogenous.
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September 25th, 2009 on 10:27 pm
I have to agree with a lot of previous commenters that your generalizations are quite broad to the point of being insulting. In fact, I would prefer the marathon metaphor, because no matter how you slice it, at the end, you’ve still come to the same place. Some people can run the whole way and get a really awesome finishing time, some break it up into jogging and running, and others walk. Some sprain their ankles and have a more difficult time finishing and a longer recovery time (an intervention heavy or c-section birth).
I don’t usually like to throw around personal stories, but I have a friend who wanted a natural birth, and while she wasn’t a hardcore birth junkie, she did do some research and knew what she wanted. She ended up with a failed induction followed by a c-section because she had a two-vessel umbilical cord (the norm is three) and the doctors were hesitant to let the baby go very long past her due date. She is disappointed, and still wants to go natural with subsequent children, but she definitely did NOT have a fancy black chopper experience. I feel like you let your usually amusing wit run away with you in a lot of this post to play fast and loose with things that are not as clear as they seem.
Oh, and your anonymous fellow church goer… don’t be so flippant in dismissing them. I don’t necessarily agree with everything they said (ie, education; that’s subjective) but your skin seems to be so thick when it comes to this blog that you immediately dismiss any comments that question your understanding or judgment. I’m remembering the whole baptism, “Non-Mormons think my little brother went to hell” debacle that I fought in very passionately and felt like we never received any sort of true mea culpa from you. Part of learning more is listening even when it is difficult, and abrasive or hurtful people are not by definition people who must be wrong. I hope all of my positive and supportive comments in the past can sweeten this one enough that I won’t just get tossed into the loony bin by you or any of your other commenters.
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September 25th, 2009 on 10:27 pm
I don’t normally comment, but this post bothered me. I believe that you are doing research, but to me it seems a bit skewed. I did a lot of research before I had my baby 6 months ago and I guess I fall more in catagory 2, but I didn’t just do whatever moved me, I did my research, but kept my options open because childbirth is not a static step by step production. Things can change on the drop of a dime, not every birth is the same, not every baby is the same, not every woman’s body is the same.
About the episiotomy thing, I’ve seen 3 different OB offices in my area and not one of them do regular episiotomies, it is a last ditch effort (same with c-sections). It might be different other places, but it’s not a common practice in the 2 hospitals where I live. Natural is what every doctor here strives for, that’s straight from the nurses in our OB department and the doctors I’ve met with. Also, epidurals do not slow down birth, they don’t slow down dilation of the cervix. I don’t remember where I read this specifically, but recent studies have shown that an epidural has no effect on dilation. I found that and also brought it to my OB and they both agreed and researched more to find that the study was correct in that epidurals do not affect dilation.
I had a little different situation because I had pre-e and I had to be induced because my blood pressure got dangerously high. I would have rather had a natural birth but that didn’t happen. I was ok with that because it would save my baby. I tried to go natural and the pain was too much, I eventually had an epidural. I almost had to have a c-section. My pelvis is shaped like a duck bill (platypoid or something like that, there are 3 types of pelvises, I had the one least likely to give birth naturally) and my doctor told me I probably wouldn’t be able to do it. But he let me keep laboring till I got to 10cm, and the baby was still healthy and fine. If the baby would have deceled I would have had a c-section. He let me labor and finally I pushed my daughter out with no tearing, no episiotomy. I got to hold her immediately. I got to breastfeed her immediately with no problems whatsoever. None. And I was induced, had an epidural, and IVs.
Not every labor is the same, not every situation is clear cut. There are many different things that can happen and ways to give birth. I personally would do anything to make sure my child was born healthy. I don’t care how I come out. That’s why I chose a hospital and a doctor in case something went wrong (and things did and do all the time!). I wouldn’t want to chance something happening and not being prepared or having to travel to a hospital.
I also really didn’t like that you said you worry about you. But that’s your choice. I’m not judging you for that but I feel you judge others on what type of birth they choose. I understand you are just posting this to help others educate themselves, but I don’t think what you’ve said is research, it’s your opinion.
And I completely agree with Joy!!
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:10 pm
Jenna:
I have to say I am pretty offended by this post and agree with many of the other dissenters. In some of your previous posts (about other things, like politics) I have disagreed with you in the past and have been offended by other things you have written, but rationalized that we are simply very different people with very different thoughts on religion and politics. I figured that your heavy hand at judging people was actually my overthinking of what you wrote. And frankly, it made me even more curious about you. I looked forward to your posts.
However, for the first time, you and I see eye to eye on a given topic and yet I could not be more offended. You have trivialized any women making a decision other than one that matches your own citing that they are simply uneducated and lazy. In reading subsequent comments, that is clearly not the case, these other women have clearly though very long and very hard about what is best for them. I appreciate that you want women to educate themselves, but you don’t need to berate them to get them to do it. You make it seem as though any decision apart from one that matches your own is wrong and that is simply not true as there is no right or wrong answer. Finally, you are not a health professional (Dr, Midwife, RN, Doula) nor do you have any direct experience in this matter, so how can you dole out judgement so easily?
I am disappointed.
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September 25th, 2009 on 11:31 pm
I just wanted to thank Joy, MrsW, Alison, Erica, and the others who made similar comments. I read this post in the morning and it bothered me all day. I’m proud of the research I did before my birth experience, and proud of the choices I made. But I’m still human and the judgement and finger pointing I felt through those ‘categories’ hurt. So thank you for your comments - and thank you to Jenna for allowing such an important discussion to take place.
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September 26th, 2009 on 1:02 am
Frankly, It never ceases to amaze that woman treat this subject as such an open one. I could never walk up to a near total stranger (as we typically are in this blogging world) and offer up judgement on their choice of Maxi Pads over Tampons. I would never think to offer them tips on their sex lives or the state of their marriage. It’s just none of my business.
Do I have opinions? Sure. I think every woman does in one way or another. I’ve had a child. I’ve experienced childbirth, and while I have my own opinions on that experience, I still don’t believe that it’s anyone elses business.
I applaud you for researching the best options for your L&D. I hope you achieve the experience that you so deeply desire. But I do wonder what you are hoping to gain from this discussion. Validation of your decision? The education of your readers? What? Because on a topic as deeply personal and subjective as this one, we are each likely to believe that our way is the better way to do it. It’s after all, what we chose.
I don’t intend for this to come across as snarky, though it might sound that way. I’m just curious.
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Cristin Reply:
September 26th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Not sure what Jenna is “hoping to gain” through this post (or what any blogger is hoping to gain?!), but she did say above that she hopes her writing invites women who HAVE NOT CONSIDERED anything but the standard procedure of medical care for pregnancy to at least look into other options. Seems fair enough to me. She hasn’t said that you have to be on her “team” - just that she supports enabling women to make an educated choice (not a “default” procedure).
Yes, her tone was a little challenging and she’s said repeatedly that she cannot be less passionate about a natural course of birth for her children. So let’s accept that this is her way and recognize that she’s not judging people who make different choices, she’s opposed to those who don’t think about their options at all.
Jenna, you can call me out on being off-base, but people seem to ask the same questions and miss that you’re advocating education even more than advocating your “au naturale” birth plan.
As a non-ETE (or non-TTC) reader, I have read over and over that The Nest/The Bump boards are judgy, unfriendly, and that you should lurk for a month before you try posting. I enjoy Jenna’s blog because it provides a forum for debate and people are generally pleasant. I find this an interesting read, because although I may not agree and may not ever convince Jenna to see something my way, her posts make me think and drive me to JAMA or other journals to investigate on my own.
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Andria Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Good grief Cristin, it wasn’t my intention to personally attack Jenna. She has a good friend in you for trying to defend her.
All I meant was that this has always been such a personal subject to me, though that may be more of a cultural thing than anything else. Hearing someone offer up opinions on their birth choices has always surprised me. I’m not suggesting that Jenna is wrong to do so, that there is anything wrong with her doing so, or that she had intentions in doing so at all.
That was the question I raised. I’m sorry if it came across as anything other than that. It was never my intention to offend or attack.
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Cristin Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Oh for the love of Pete. I’m not sure my response warranted a “good grief” response.
I only answered your question, “But I do wonder what you are hoping to gain from this discussion. Validation of your decision? The education of your readers? What?”. I said that Jenna wants to start a dialogue to get people to educate themselves on their options. I never said you were “personally attacking Jenna.” These boards are so frustrating because people get edgy and then we spend four responses apologizing for not apologizing, etc.
Think I’m taking a break from responding on here for a while. Sigh.
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September 26th, 2009 on 2:07 pm
Jenna, I applaud what I think is your very sincere desire to educate others. I don’t personally agree with categorizing women as I believe each woman’s journey is different and uniquely beautiful. But I don’t doubt that you have done lots of research that might help others come to the decision that is right for them.
Perhaps sharing what you learned that helped you come to your decision to have a natural birth would more effective in reaching your goal. If you have a post on this planned for the future, I look forward to reading it, just as much as I look forward to reading the comments it will spawn in defense of other birthing methods - because for me, reading passionate viewpoints from all sides also plays an important role in my own self education. On that note, kudos and thank you to you for creating this environment where that can happen.
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Cristin Reply:
September 27th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Here Here! She makes great veils AND she makes sense. Totally agree with Kasia Fink.
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September 26th, 2009 on 3:32 pm
Jenna,
To put it simply, this post is incredibly rude.
I highly disagree that having a C-section means riding in a fancy black chopper. My mother had to have an emergency C-section in FIVE minutes or else my brother would have DIED. I don’t think you can even imagine how stressful that was for her.
And I agree with others who are saying that you should put your baby’s health BEFORE your own. I am not pregnant and don’t have any children but even I understand that common sense fact.
You really disappointed a lot of people with this post. Very unnecessarily judgmental. It would have been fine for you to explain what YOU want to do and why YOU want to do it, but it is so disrespectful for you to put (silently) put others down for their choices, because you think yours is the best. Very immature, actually.
I wish you all the best with your pregnancy.
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September 26th, 2009 on 5:14 pm
“As I said in my last post, I don’t claim to know what option is best for everyone.”
If you truly think that is true, please reread your post and pray about it.
Thank you.
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September 26th, 2009 on 5:18 pm
I don’t think many people have commented on this, but I like what you say, Jenna, about how we should be champions of birth all around. There’s no reason to use scare tactics or to try to puff up about how you gave birth versus someone else. Giving birth is a marvelous God-given blessing and that in itself is a miracle.
We women often try to build one another up by tearing others down, and I like that you acknowledge that this is unhealthy and counterproductive.
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September 27th, 2009 on 1:44 am
I’ve been thinking about this post, and following the comments, and I have a few more things I’d like to add (I noticed that I am not the only one who is commenting for the first time. Brought some of us out of the woodwork with this one
)
First, I feel like I “get” what you’re trying to say, that women should be as educated and prepared as possible, but what I feel this post is implying (or at least what people are inferring) is that education = “natural” (or intervention free). I wonder if one of the reasons people are feeling offended by this is that the only category you included the “researched every little thing” phrase in, was the all natural, drug free group. Implying that unless you also plan on being drug free, you have not researched and read up on the subject… Also, although I know you feel strongly about your opinions, wouldn’t you agree that to be fully educated, you are aware of all sides of a decisions? Pros and cons? Perhaps if you presented pros and cons of several of the different options, instead of just the pros for one, and the cons for another, it could be helpful in encouraging future mothers to research ALL their options. If you have read every little thing, you must have credible sources that are in favor of some of the options that you disagree with. I’m not saying you have to agree with them, only that I’m hoping you’ve at least read them in the spirit of education on the subject.
Also, I wonder about the dates on some of the sources you are citing. From what I understand, episiotomies being standard procedure is a dated medical practice, and I would argue that most doctors don’t immediately assume they will have to do one. That was one of the first questions I asked my OB, and he informed me that they absolutely do not consider them standard practice, none of the other OBs in the office did, and none of the doctors I have spoken to since do. I would be interested to know where you got your 90% statistic from, as well as the date it was written. Also, be prepared for about 5 weeks recovery time regardless of whether you delivery vaginally or by c-section. I had a c-section and at 5 weeks was told by my doctor I could begin to exercise, lift weights, do yoga (all within reason of course). I believe that is about the same for vaginal deliveries, but of course each person’s recovery time is different. I might agree that the first few days after surgery were more difficult (although I’ve only had one baby, so I can’t say from experience) I’m sure it depends on the individual.
The last part of this long comment is a question. I am asking it because I am sincerely curious. I had a low risk pregnancy, but ended up requiring a c-section. Through that experience I learned that there can be many unexpected complications that can quickly go from bad to worse. I also learned that when necessary, doctors can deliver babies FAST, delivering a baby by c-section in minutes to help ensure that both mom and baby are safe. So, my question is this… in your research of at home deliveries (or any type of delivery away from a hospital), what is the backup plan for serious and unexpected complications that require immediate attention? I have wondered this for awhile, and am hoping this is an appropriate setting to ask.
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kay Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Many midwives have relationships with local hospitals, and women receive concurrent care so they may deliver at a hospital if necessary. If complications are noticed (remember - almost all midwives monitor the heartbeat, etc) then they usually call the hospital, tell them what’s going on & tell them they’re bringing someone in, and then they drive you there. If it’s urgent, they may call an ambulance.
Unfortunately (and I’m not saying this happened in YOUR scenario at all - because I don’t know) most “serious and unexpected complications” only happen in hospitals - as a result of birthing position, pain relief, pitocin, not being able to eat/drink (becoming exhausted), being forced to push instead of pushing when it feels natural, the doctor being unaware of natural laboring positions you can do to fix things (like the cord being around the baby’s neck), etc.
Maybe that helps!
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MrsW Reply:
September 28th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I’m really curious about what information you found to back up the claim that “most “serious and unexpected complications” only happen in hospitals”. I agree with you that the things you mention can and do lead to serious and unexpected complications, but I find it difficult to believe that most birth complications are purely iatrogenic. Shoulder dystocia or true CPD are both fairly common complications that can quickly become serious and cannot be eliminated just by good (ie natural) positioning or labor management. Then there are some conditions in the newborn which could have been undetectable in utero but immediately present at birth — I have a friend who was a completely normal healthy baby, except that his heart pumped the wrong way. He was airlifted minutes after birth to a hospital in the next state for open heart surgery. I’m not saying that out-of-hospital births are inherently more dangerous, but there is always a risk that you have to assess whether you’re comfortable with of not having the provisions of a hospital immediately at hand; and of course, sometimes being in the hospital makes no difference in terms of too much time being taken to correct a serious complication.
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September 27th, 2009 on 12:46 pm
Just read an interesting article on expectant mothers educating themselves and how that relates to their subsequent birth experiences… just wanted to share it with the other commenters:
http://www.theunnecesarean.com/blog/2009/9/27/best-of-week-birth-activists-jennifer-zimmerman.html
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September 28th, 2009 on 9:44 am
We are spending a lot of time talking about labor - the final 1-72 hours of the pregnancy (I’m aiming for 1 hour!). It can be argued that the decisions made for the previous 9 months may be more important. For instance, we are only supposed to eat an additional 300 calories per day when pregnant - not the 1000 I was looking forward to after years of depriving myself of donuts and Lunchables. Sigh. Ignorance would have been bliss!
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September 28th, 2009 on 10:26 am
I am going through the same research as you are Jenna, being due in April as well. I just wanted to mention that as a military wife, and part of a “socialized health system”, we are herded through pre-natal care like cattle. We are called for appointments, don’t make them ourselves, and are practically prescribed our birthing process and experience. I was told at my first consultation not to expect ANYTHING and just to follow (by a staff member not an OBGYN, nurse, etc., must be bad at the top when they’re warning at the bottom) because our post is going through a baby boom and they are so busy that appointments may be put off a couple weeks. It makes me wonder how my delivery will go, when there are 13 deliveries per 8 hour shift. Will my birthing wishes be at the doctor’s mercy, or matter at all, if this is how I’m being handled now? This has saddened me greatly, and until I read your posts on pre-natal care, I wouldn’t have known any better.
Guess what I’m doing today? Calling our military insurance to see what my options are and to explain my experience so far.
Thank you for breaching this obviously overly sensitive subject. It’s changed my experience, hopefully for the better.
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September 29th, 2009 on 10:18 am
Jenna, thanks for this post. Thank you for helping women across the world educate themselves. Thank you for standing up for what is right vs. what is politically correct. My husband and I would love to have children in a couple of years, and I feel so blessed to have come across your post. I was not aware of the benefit of the skin-to-skin contact, nor the high episiotomy rates.
Regarding education, a degree does not make one edcuated. Nor does a degree promise a great job/career. I won’t start mentioning all the great leaders I know and have read about that did not have a degree.
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September 29th, 2009 on 1:36 pm
There is a reason parenting/birth websites and blogs have a reputation for heated debate!
For me, I always enjoy hearing what goes into how any human being makes the major decisions in life. I do think the birth decision is much more complicated than simple categories though. I am a big fan of everyone doing what’s right for them.
My mother gave birth nine (count ‘em - NINE) times. All except the last were completely natural childbirth. She does say that the last birth (the one that involved an epidural) was the best experience, not just because of the lack of pain, but because she was coherent enough to pay attention to what was going on and actually enjoy it. On the flip side, I have many “all-natural” mommy friends, and their stories universally revolve around the pain rather than the impending awesomeness of their new child. I have one friend who won’t even discuss her birth because the experience was so awful. I think there are equal numbers of pros and cons to all sides - it’s a just a matter of what’s a good fit for each individual woman!
I have zero judgement of mommies doing what’s best for them. Every woman is different, and what’s right for one isn’t necessarily right for the other. I think if there’s a takeaway that anyone can agree with, it’s that well-informed choices are crucial! And that’s why discussions like these can be quite handy!
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September 29th, 2009 on 4:35 pm
Being a mother of five, i’ve experienced a few (most) kinds of birth- but i’d just like to say- they are all difficult (and wonderful)- you experience something totally unique however you deliver and if you think you can somehow escape or intensify the birthing experience by choosing one way or another- you may be a little shocked when it actually happens. How ever you do it - It’s great that you are going into it open to the Experience (and open to doing what’s best for both you AND your bebe) because again however it happens- it will be amazing.
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September 29th, 2009 on 4:39 pm
While I (personally) agree with your opinion that natural childbirth is an “ideal” option, I also agree with the many who say that this post was hurtfully generalizing.
I would love to have a natural childbirth myself. In fact, my (ideal) plan is to have a home birth attended by midwives and my husband, who is an NP. This makes him nervous, because he HAS been in a labor & delivery ward and has seen many “worst case scenarios.” But as long as we’re close to a hospital, he has agreed to let me follow this plan, IF I CAN.
My mother’s longest labor was four hours. She never had any pain medications. She’s not a big-hipped woman, and so I’m AMAZED by this. I can only hope for the same! She did have to be induced for one of my three sisters because she was in distress (WPW Syndrome and ovarian hernia) but the rest of us were quick and non-assisted, even my youngest sister born when my mother was 40.
Honestly, though, I’m not kidding myself. I know there’s a lot that can go wrong. I don’t believe that many people really ELECT for c-sections (like Britney Spears, who seemed to make it more of a cosmetic procedure than anything). But I do know that many people end up having them when things don’t go right- and that a vaginal birth on subsequent pregnancies (VBAC) IS possible, but can be dangerous.
Now, here’s where natural birth gets tricky. Some people stick to their guns on it so firmly that it gets them into trouble, endangering themselves AND the baby. For example, my friend Lindsay became pregnant and had an ideal pregnancy very much like you are describing your own ideal. She didn’t see doctors, she visited a midwife and a natural clinic. Her pregnancy was great.
So she comes to term but doesn’t start laboring. The baby cooks an extra week; then two. By then she’s at the point where they start to worry, so her midwife begins natural induction. It works and she starts to labor. So far, so good!
She labors for 24 hours at home. Then 48. Then 72. By this time she is in active labor but her water has not broken. She labors for four days before her water breaks, but still has declined to go to the hospital, although it was recommended. Why would she? Nothing’s wrong.
Finally, her water breaks, and she continues to labor for several more hours. The baby passes meconium. At this time, both the mother and the baby are at serious risk for infection. Finally, after five days of labor, she is taken to the hospital, running a fever and ill.
The worst party of the story is that after all that, she HAD to deliver by c-section, not because of the risk she was in (though that was part of it) but because her 42-week old baby was too large to fit out of her cervix!
Now, I might have given up earlier, but I commend her for trying so hard. Hers definitely WAS a worst case scenario. After delivery, her baby had to be taken from her to have IV antibiotics administered, as did she. They are, thankfully, both fine and thriving now.
I wasn’t there for the labor, but I do often wonder if perhaps she could have made a better decision for both her and the baby’s health by not sticking to her guns so firmly and placing them both in a dangerous situation.
Just like climbing a mountain and running a marathon, everyone’s experience IS different because we’re all different people. For some it’s easy, for some it’s nearly impossible. The experience matters, yes, but ultimately finishing safely is the goal.
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September 30th, 2009 on 4:07 am
[...] Birth: I’m Gonna Climb That Mountain [...]
September 30th, 2009 on 9:06 am
I may not have been as well informed as I would have like to have been, but I did know that when it came to the epidural I wanted it because I wanted to be able to care for my newborn baby following his birth. I wanted to be able to nurse him and not be completely and utterly exhausted after he was born. Other than being able to rest and take a very short nap, I am glad I took the epidural because there isn’t much that I don’t remember, because I was awake and fully aware.
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Evelyn Reply:
October 6th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
You said, “I wanted it because I wanted to be able to care for my newborn baby following his birth.” I guess it kinda sounds like you think those who don’t take pain meds are too tired to do that, so I guess I just wanted you to know-that generally the reason why women go without pain meds is for that very same reason, and although a nap may occur in the first few hours after a baby is born, most women who gave birth naturally are able to take care of their babies in the same way you described.
Coming from a woman with that experience, I think I dozed for about 20 minutes but one of my favorite memories is of my husband taking our little baby and walking around the room whispering sweet things to her as I fell asleep and woke up.
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Tasha Reply:
October 7th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
No, no, no. Please don’t take it in that context. I guess what I was trying to say is I have a very hard time relaxing, and it takes a lot. So, to have something to relax me and help limit my exhaustion from contractions was all I was trying to convey. I don’t think less of anyone for taking or not taking some sort of medication/drug for their birthing experience.
I remember my husband doing something similar with our child when he was first born. I was most touched when there were tears shed the first time my husband held him.
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Evelyn Reply:
October 7th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Thanks for the clarification, it honestly sounded like you were trying to imply that… =D
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September 30th, 2009 on 10:02 pm
Two of my other favorite bees - Kasia Fink and Kimberly Michelle - gave similar suggestions and I hope you’ll take those to heart, Jenna. Your readers want to hear about your journey, and about what you read and learned that made you feel the way you do. I think the first two “Birth” posts did a nice job of that. Then we got this one. It’s bothered me for days, and I just came back and read all the comments and was relieved that I wasn’t the only one who felt that I was being judged (and I am pretty far on the organic-crunchy granola chem-free birthing pool side of the fence here). I’m not even TTC yet and I feel judged. Just for being a woman, I think. I think that’s why it’s bothered me so much. You’ve veiled a certain contempt for “some women” in language of education and choice, and that is offensive.
Please just keep telling us about That Life. Don’t tell me how to live mine.
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Hannah Reply:
October 1st, 2009 at 5:20 am
I completely agree with this sentiment. You have articulated it way better than I have been able to at any point.
I love your blog Jenna, but I felt judged as a woman when I am not even engaged let alone TTC.
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October 25th, 2009 on 8:13 pm
Why are you trying so hard to control everything? Did you get pregnant while your husband was out of town and now you are trying to skew the dates? Do you think if you get no prenatal care and don’t deliver in a hospital that your husband won’t figure it out when the baby isn’t his?
Or are you even pregnant? Maybe you are trying cover up a recent weight gain by pretending to be pregnant so your husband won’t divorce you when you go over your allowed weight.
But whatever it is… it all spells C R A Z Y …
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