26 Sep
Babies in Church
I’m not sure if someone directly asked for a post like this, or if they asked a question on Formspring that inspired it, but I love the idea so much that I plan on writing others for children, teenagers, and single adults, as their experiences are all unique.
T1′s outfit for church today
There are a lot of babies at church each week. The LDS church is one that stresses the importance of having children, and we take that counsel seriously. It means that services are often punctuated by squeals and cries, but most people don’t seem to mind because it means that there are cute babies to smile at and toddlers to corral as they lurch down the aisles.
When a baby is born the compassionate service committee in the Relief Society (that’s the Women’s organization in the Church) organizes meals for the new mother. The amount of help is catered to each woman and her needs, so if you don’t have family come in you might get meals every other night for a few weeks.
The amount of time a woman waits to return to church varies. I skipped one Sunday, but went every week after that. TH didn’t want T1 to go until he was at least six weeks old because he was formula fed and wasn’t receiving the antibodies he needed from me, so we would trade off. TH would go to our ward at 9, and then I would go to another ward later in the afternoon. I have a friend who just had her third child and she was in sacrament meeting with her baby by the second Sunday! It all depends on how a woman feels.
Church is three hours long, and it is very difficult to make it through without having at least one meltdown, especially since a service scheduled from 9am-12pm causes most babies to miss their morning nap. Children are taken out into the hall if they are too fussy, and I always find several other parents walking the halls with their fussy children whenever I am outside. In my Texas stake (a stake is a gathering of several congregations in one area) we were counseled to be careful about taking our children out into the hall too readily (for it can easily become a reward, and they certainly like running around in the halls more than sitting in a pew), and that is something we are trying to do with T1, though I think right now he is young enough that a few trips outside won’t spoil him.
From what I’ve seen, breastfeeding in church meetings is very rare. I bottle feed, and most women seem to either feed formula or breast milk in a bottle, or go into the mother’s lounge (a room designated for mothers and babies, often very smelly due to dirty diapers being left inside, but comfortable because it has couches and comfy chairs). I’m not going to say much more about breastfeeding because I get really worked up about it, especially when I read accounts from women online who say that their leaders asked them not to breastfeed during sacrament meeting or other church meetings. I love these images of LDS women breastfeeding in an 1971 sacrament meeting that Rixa of Stand and Deliver posted, and I plan to breastfeed (discreetly) wherever I please if breastfeeding works out with baby #2.
Babies stay with their parents in the adult meetings until 18 months, at which time they are (finally!) allowed to enter nursery. Nursery attendance lasts from 18 months to 3 years, and then Primary begins. Toddlers are in nursery for 2 hours and inside they find buckets of donated toys, treats, singing, and a short lesson attempted by the leaders each week. I’ve taught nursery a few times now and loved it!
My favorite religion professor at BYU once said that the sole responsibility of parents with young children is to keep their own kids quiet so others can listen to the messages being taught and partake of the sacrament. Now that I have a baby of my own I see the truth in that statement. I pick up bits and pieces as I go, and when I really buckle down I feel like I learned something, but for the most part it’s a lot of shushing and bouncing to stave off the cries. The upside though? I haven’t felt bored at church for 5 months now!
Also:
I'm a farm-raised almost-crunchy stroller-pushing picture-taking lifestyle-blog-writing gastronomy-obsessed divine-seeking thrift-store-combing cheese-inhaling pavement-pounding laughter-sprinkling lover of individuality and taking chances.
I’m sure it’s really difficult to balance your own spiritual well being, with just trying to keep a baby content in church!
Breastfeeding is a really… touchy… subject. I don’t know from personal experience, but I follow a blog that touches on the topic some times. I’m surprised it’s not encouraged (when breastfeeding is an option and needed by the child) since it really is natural, and a good opportunity for other parents to explain the beauty of it. But yeah - it can be a very complicated, heated topic.
1I think it’s great that they encourage you not to jump out of the room with your kid at every little noise. I think that’s definitely a good thing and despite people (such as myself) that get all worked up the minute they hear a baby. Incidentally, these people (me) also don’t have kids. If I ever have kids I’m going to hate people like myself that get annoyed at the drop of a hat, like OMGMom haha.
And breast feeding is such a natural and beautiful thing. If you are able to breast feed your next kid I can’t imagine anyone saying anything to you about doing it during the 3 hour church service. I mean 3 hours?! And if they do, bump them.
tiffany Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:25 am
3 hours is a long time without feeding your child…and i know this is a touchy subject, and i know mom that do it in the meetings, i am not saying it is wrong…but just to clarify they don’t expect babies to go 3 hours without eating. Jenna mentioned the mother’s lounge and it has comfy chairs that you can go into and nurse your baby there if you want, and it has a speaker so during the sacrament meeting portion if you have to or choose to go nurse your baby in the mother’s lounge then you are still able to hear the meeting and the speakers. so yeah they don’t expect babies to go 3 hours without food!!!
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:32 am
Thanks for helping me clarify that!
Andrea Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 6:46 am
Haha I understood that. I just think that you shouldn’t have to leave to breast feed. Or fiddle with a bottle. Kinda meant it as two separate thoughts I guess. Breast feeding is wonderful.. And 3 hours is long!
Hailey Reply:
September 28th, 2010 at 8:54 am
I think another thing to specify about LDS meetings on Sunday is that the 3 hours are split into 3 different classes - you don’t just sit in a ‘mass’ style service (Sacrament meeting) for 3 long hours with fussing children. First up, there’s a service for the entire congregation, which lasts a bit over an hour. Then, all the children 18 months and over go to the nursery, or primary classes for the older children, for the rest of the 2 hours, while the adults attend other classes
I think bringing children to church is extremely important. We bring B to church with us and have since she was six weeks old.
I don’t mind when babies cry and toddlers get restless. What bothers me is when older children (around 10 or so) who aren’t quiet and climbing all over things.
Hailey Reply:
September 28th, 2010 at 8:56 am
I agree. Even if young children make it entirely impossible for you to get anything out of a meeting, I think the whole point is that children get used to church - otherwise, what would we do? Skip church for 10 years while we raise our children and then go back when we can really ‘benefit’ again? That wouldn’t work out. Also, surely we rack up a fair amount of brownie points in heaven for surviving church every week with wriggly children!
That illustration is awesome. I love this comment on it-
“Isn’t it ironic that women can expose almost every part of her body, and yet if she puts a baby to the nipple, all hell breaks loose?”
So. True. I was so disgusted when Parenting magazine was criticized for showing a nursing baby on the cover- with no nipple to be seen, just a close up of the baby’s face as it was feeding, and you could see the swell of mom’s breast. So sad that we don’t think twice about a string bikini that covers nothing *except* the nipple, yet a breastfeeding baby is so offensive
4I breastfeed Claire several times during church still (yeah, she’s a boobaholic) and I’ve never had a problem, a dirty look or anything. We nurse in all the meetings, uncovered, and lately Claire has required me to nurse out the top of my shirt (it’s still somewhat discreet, her head covers most of my small breast and it’s the reason we sit in the same back corner). Men and women still sit by us, so either they don’t notice, or don’t care. All the other moms will only nurse in the mother’s lounge, even during RS (the women’s meeting).
We also let her wonder around during the meetings, otherwise she would scream. As long as she’s not banging on stuff and making a racket (which we don’t let her do), it’s the best way to keep her quiet. Everyone always laughs and smiles at her, she loves people, so I don’t think most people mind. We also don’t want her to learn that if she misbehaves, she gets a “reward” of playing in the hall, so if we have to take her out (rare), then we hold her and don’t let her play. I think it’s working pretty well, today she sat on our laps the ENTIRE Sacrament meeting!
tiffany Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:29 am
i totally agree with not letting them down if you have to take them out. i would even find a small empty room and make my daughter sit on my lap until she was done throwing her fit. she learned pretty quickly that it was WAY MORE fun to be in the sacrament meeting and playing with her toys quietly then sitting on my lap out in a small room!
I do think it’s important to keep your kids quiet and listening (or just quiet for babies), but it’s also important for you to get something out of it. So I’d have to say I disagree with that professor. Before college, I lived in a very large ward and I was close to many families. I would often take someone’s baby or child into the hallway when they were too noisy. You might find someone who wouldn’t mind watching T1 for a bit during Sacrament or another meeting maybe once a month or whenever you just need that spiritual fulfillment.
Jackie Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:41 am
Yeah, I was confused about that. I’m not LDS so maybe I don’t get it, but if you aren’t there to listen, wouldn’t it make more sense to just stay out in the hallway and take care of your child there? I do think it is a good point on service…you are serving others by helping them listen.
I loved reading this post and the comments so far. I think it’s interesting to see the differences in churches.
The church I grew up in had a nursery where young children could go so that the parents could enjoy the service. We also had a nursing room connected to the bathroom that was tinted. It had a speaker so that breastfeeding mom’s could hear the sermon as well as rocking chairs and one crib.
Right now I’m in the process of converting to Eastern Orthodoxy and have noticed that it seems to be the practice that children are to remain in the sanctuary during the liturgy. If they are loud, they are taken to the back or outside of the church (it’s pretty small). One couple in my church lets their kid run around and it can get pretty distracting (esp during the times when no one is supposed to approach the altar).
I don’t have children, but I have no problem with breastfeeding in the open.
I’m looking forward to reading more comments!
Steph Reply:
September 26th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
I really want to edit this post so that I can take out my added apostrophe in mom’s! Ah.
I love your Sunday posts!
It’s too bad about the breastfeeding… I honestly don’t understand why some people find it offensive. Very strange. (And odd that - if I inferred correctly from this post - a church that so strongly advocates procreation and babies’ attendance at church would be opposed to breastfeeding.)
Jenna Reply:
September 26th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
dontevengetmestarted
We are LDS and have 2 kids now- a two year old boy and a 3 month old daughter. We live in Oregon and breastfeeding is not a problem here. Most mom’s still go to the mother’s lounge (I think because it is calm, quiet, less distracting for the child, and some women are uncomfortable with breastfeeding in public) but a few mom’s breastfeed during the meeting. I would not feel uncomfortable doing so, and have done so a few times. I mostly go out because my daughter cries occasionally between feedings and I want to be able to stand and burp her without becoming a distraction for others.
Anyway, my point it that I think it depends on what part of the country you are in. Breastfeeding is no big deal in Oregon, people are not generally bothered by it and no one has ever asked us not to which I appreciate.
We also try to keep our 2 year old in the meeting until he becomes a big distraction (i.e. yelling or talking REALLY loudly or throwing a fit) at which point we take him out in the hall and he must sit on our laps until he is ready to go back it (it is not a reward to go out). It is hard work for us- it would be easier to let him roam around in the halls and play, but we want to teach him the importance of sacrament meeting and being reverent.
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:05 am
I’m so happy to hear this! I like your method for taking kids out in the hall, I think we will try to do something similar.
I hope, that the reports I’m reading are just isolated incidents, but they certainly don’t reflect the attitude of other members (particularly men) that I’ve talked to. I brought this idea up with a member of the bishopric in my last ward and he clearly conveyed that he thought women should leave the room if they want to breastfeed. I was not happy. That’s what we get when we have a lay clergy though!
I agree with the previous comment about a church advocating procreation being opposed to breastfeeding. Seems very curious.
An interesting anecdote: My cousin is a Priest in a Ukrainian Catholic church. He is part of a more ‘modern’ generation of Catholics where Priests are encouraged to marry and have a family of their own. In his services, it is almost always the case that his own three kids are the loudest and active! Needless to say, the congregation has a fairly high level of tolerance for restless kids (and the service is only one hour).
Jackie Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:44 am
That’s funny. I’m Catholic and have never (until recently) been to a church where there is a Children’s liturgy. It is kind of nice to have the quiet during the liturgy, but it always seems a little odd to separate the kids and parents. I think I prefer noise and knowing families are together!
Kristin ~ Bien Living Design Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:22 am
I am going to have to do some research on this - I have never heard of a Catholic priest that is encouraged or evern allowed to marry! Deacons, yes, but not priests. Interesting…
Jackie Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Roman Catholic priests are not allowed to marry. But there are a few Catholic churches that split off in the Great Schism (that’s back when the Orthodox and RC churches split) that later recognized the authority of the Pope and now are in alliance with Rome. The Church allows those priests to marry. The Ukranian Church is the only one I can name off the top of my head. Also, I’ve heard that Anglican priests who are married and convert to Catholicism can stay married and become priests.
Kristin ~ Bien Living Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Thanks for the clarification!
The CHURCH is actually pro-breastfeeding. There are a few comments in official handbooks about the benefits and how we shouldn’t be turned off by the world sexualizing the breast. But the people aren’t perfect, and they are affected by our society just like everyone else. If a Bishop were to ask a nursing mom to leave the room, he would be speaking purely from his own opinion. I really wish the Church would be more proactive about it though. How awesome would it be if the Prophet mentioned nursing in sacrament meeting at conference?
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:51 am
yes!
I probably should have been more clear. The whole thing just makes me SO CRAZY though. There are only a handful of topics that get more worked up than the idea of a stake president asking a woman not to nurse during sacrament meeting, and that she must leave and go somewhere else instead of taking the sacrament (this I read on either Stand and Deliver or FMH I was livid at the thought).
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:56 am
Ok and I should probably clarify that she can take the sacrament out in the hall.
But do they take the sacrament trays to the mothers lounge?
Brie Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 1:09 am
I guess I’m lucky! The Bishops wife even saw me nursing Claire the other day and didn’t say anything, but it was in RS. I hope I never have to deal with it, but if I do, I hope I will be able to nicely say “No thanks, I’m fine here” or stand up for myself more aggressively if need be without losing my temper.
Oh, and T1′s outfit is super cute!
Cécy Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Have you noticed a difference between the North and the South of the country. I know LDS is different but I think people in the South tend to be more conservative especially toward subject such as breastfeeding in public. I may be totally wrong but that’s the feeling i get living in the South.
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 10:51 am
I have lived in Central WA, Utah, Texas, and now Chicago. Chicago might be different, as I heard a conversation in church yesterday where they were talking about the importance of breastfeeding and how they were trying to do so for a whole year. Hooray! I don’t know what the attitude of the leadership is toward it though.
That’s so interesting - I had no idea your service was three hours long each week!
12That comment about breastfeeding gets me worked up, too! And I don’t even like breastfeeding in public, and (if I were LDS) would probably use the mother’s room you were talking about.
I’m not LDS, but we were looking into churches since we’ve just moved to a new area. I asked one what people normally do with babies, and the pastor told me at what age they start going to the nursery. I asked if I bring Molly to church is there a place I can breastfeed. She had no idea. The pastor was just like…”uhhh, I could leave my office unlocked for you”. Which was nice (I guess) but I was thinking to myself “either no one with a baby comes to this church, or those that do don’t breastfeed”. Both of which are really upsetting.
13babies crying were always a part of mass. our old church, built in 1850 didn’t have any accommodations for crying babies, but honestly it feels like the accommodations put more pressure on the mom to think after the first squawk she should sequester herself and baby. it’s never even crossed my mind that women would need to breastfeed during church, but especially with a 3 hour service,I can’t say as I’ve ever noticed it happening, so I have no idea whether there’d be a reaction from anyone.
14breastfeeding at church doesn’t offend me in any way- and i am a HUGE advocate for breastfeeding. BUT i do also believe in modesty, and although a breast isn’t sexual to the person feeding their child, it seems awkward to others- like young men, or full time missionaries who would be in the meeting as well. i understand it’s a touchy subject, i just know what i’ve heard from my husband who served on a mission in another country, and he said it was always awkward when a child would breastfeed in front of him while they were trying to teach a lesson to a mother. maybe things should somehow change so that other’s dont feel uncomfortable…i just know what i’ve been told/heard.
Sophia Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I agree with you that it does make some young men uncomfortable, but I think this is kind of a vicious cycle thing. Men don’t grow up seeing women breastfeeding, so all they see are sexualized images of breasts, so that’s how they think of them, so as a result women don’t breastfeed in front of men because of modesty issues/not wanting to sexually arouse the men… and that goes right back to the problem in the first place, that men don’t grow up seeing women breastfeeding and seeing it as a normal, natural, non-sexual thing.
One of my closest friends, a strongly devout, evangelical, conservative Christian, posted pictures of her baby’s birth on facebook. It was awesome to see a picture of her in bed, breastfeeding her child-with no cover- and her older two sons were sitting next to her. The next picture, still breastfeeding, there were three adult men cooing over the baby- the caption was “Husband’s friends meet baby”. I loved how natural it was for her. I think if more boys grew up that way, they wouldn’t even associate breastfeeding with something that should make them uncomfortable. Of course, that would take a *huge* cultural change, and would take a very, very long time.
natalie fenn Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:12 am
I agree that a cultural change would need to take place.
Kristine Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
I also agree that it is unfortunate that the culture has changed. However, I don’t think it is our responsibility to FORCE the change on others because I don’t believe it is going to happen. I am guessing that there is a reason that church leaders have requested that people don’t breastfeed during the meetings (such as young men/missionaries being distracted/uncomfortable) - I don’t believe that they would ask this for selfish reasons. People just need to learn to pick their battles and I don’t believe that this is one worth fighting. It seems that rather than get offended by this request, it would be better to keep the spirit of the meeting and move to another room.
Sophia Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Kristine, I think I have to disagree with how you define a lack of “selfish reasons”. I personally think it’s more selfish of men and boys to expect a mother to leave the room to feed her child because they can’t simply look the other way- they are capable of controlling their actions. There are basically two sides to this argument whenever it is brought up- “Women can leave and avoid creating that uncomfortable situation all together” and “Young men and missionaries should have enough self restraint and be taught to not ogle a woman feeding her hungry infant the way nature intended”.
Personally, I lean toward the latter, because the former implies that it’s the *woman’s* responsibility to prevent the men from looking at her inappropriately, which takes away all agency and responsibility from the men. If that is the argument being made, shouldn’t there be dress codes enforced at the door? A skin tight pencil skirt with a skin tight blouse and a killer pair of shoes would probably get more attention than a married woman in the back discreetly feeding her baby, don’t you think?
Kelli Nicole Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Haha, well for LDS people, there is a “dress-code” of sorts, but everyone interprets things differently. Typically, though, women shouldn’t be wearing skirts shorter than their knees, sleeveless or strapless tops, or blouses that are too clingy. I DO have LDS friends who wear immodest attire, yet feel incredibly uncomfortable if a friend breastfeeds in front of them.
I agree with you that women shouldn’t have to leave to feed their babies. Most families have several children, so what’s a mom to do if the dad is the bishop and is sitting in front of the congregation? She shouldn’t be expected to take several young children out of the meeting just to feed one. As stated above, the Church itself is pro-breastfeeding and, as no person is perfect and everyone is allowed their own opinions, any discouragement by leaders is simply a matter of personal opinion.
It’s very interesting to see how organized things are for children.
You’ve mentionned before that there are single wards and family wards. Are children more likely to be expected in the family wards?
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 10:52 am
There are no children in singles wards, ever. If you have a child out of wedlock, you move into a family ward.
Sophia Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:03 am
I’ve always wondered about that though. It seems like it would be awfully hard for a single mom or dad to find a person to marry if they can’t go to the singles ward.
Jenna Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am
I think you can still go to the activities but they need you to go to the family ward for nursery and such. And it helps to be surrounded by women who have babies and can give you help and advice (because no one understands how amazing those delivered meals are until you have a baby!).
Sophia Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 11:12 am
That’s a good point- you get all the activities of the Single’s Ward, but the support of the Family Ward.
Kelli Nicole Reply:
September 27th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
There’s a single dad in my single’s ward who’s a recent convert and he brings his (4-ish-yr-old) son to sacrament meeting (he probably goes to a family ward for primary for his son, but I’m not sure). He’s the only child and he’s so adorable!
THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for attempting to keep your baby quiet during church. A few weeks ago we settled in to our pew - and after 45 minutes of hearing baby’s cry, having my hair pulled, and my seat kicked, I excused myself to the foyer. But there I found more babies… I was so over the babies!
I know a lot of parents who will take their children out into the foyer when they cry or are disruptive, but they use it as a chance to practice sitting quietly away from people… the children aren’t allowed to run or play. I think this starts gradually though. Little T1 certainly doesn’t know!
Hailey Reply:
September 28th, 2010 at 9:05 am
I used to get really annoyed at crying babies interrupting my ‘spiritual feast’, but then I realised I was missing the point. I also felt stupid, because was that 6 month old baby really trying to offend me? No, he was just cutting teeth, poor kid! He can’t help it and neither can his parents, really. I felt much better when I relaxed and just enjoyed the noise of fussing children, rather than letting distruptions get me worked up and angry. It’s out of my control.
Seriously though, there’s fussing and there’s menacing - where were the parents of the baby who was pulling your hair??
Natalie Reply:
September 28th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Yeah, I can really work with a lot of noise, and try to listen with noise — but when the parents are just letting their kids run amok, it drives me crazy.
At the Catholic church that I attended growing up, there was a “Cry Room” at the back with windows that looked in the church and speakers so they could hear. Some people used it, some didn’t!
18Wow, your babies don’t go to nursery till 18 months? There’s no lower age limit for nursery in any church I’ve attended, but it seems like most teeny ones stay with their parents and by 6 months or so a lot of kids have done nursery at least once. T stayed with us until just recently, but as soon as she can understand the concept of sitting still and being quiet (NOT a nine month old concept), she’ll come back into service with us.
One thing I’ve really appreciated about having a baby in church is that the church I attend is very welcoming about baby noises during service. Certainly I wouldn’t let her scream and scream, but one time during a hymn she decided that if we were all being noisy she would too and started to “sing” along. I was desperately trying to shush her, but everyone took the time to comment to me afterward all said that it is wonderful to hear babies in church.
19Yay! It was me who asked about this (via Formspring) and I can’t wait to read the other posts!
20Just wanted to say that I’m excited for the Money Week Posts!
21Ok, so I am not sure that I have an opinion on this at the moment since I don’t have children. HOWEVER, I will say that T1′s church outfit is seriously killing me…it is SOOOO cute! Those little lion shoes…oh my goodness!
22I really loved reading a new mom’s perspective on little ones in Sacrament meeting. I think it’s important and wonderful that we are together as families during the Sacrament. But, I worry that I’m going to be too stressed out about my baby crying to get much out of church. I like what your BYU professor said about that. I think it’s very true!
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