This comment that Sophia left is one that a lot of people won’t see (she is a very busy girl and doesn’t always have time to comment right away ), but it was so incredibly good that I thought it deserved some front page glory.
I always find it interesting how people view time away from children. If a busy father goes on a business trip for a month overseas, he’s supporting his family, so of course he would go, no problem. If a military father/mother has to leave for sometimes a YEAR at a time, that’s fine too, in the eyes of society. But if a parent takes time away from a child from something that society views less pressing- finishing school, perhaps volunteering overseas for a month, maybe going away to a writer’s retreat for two weeks because it’s a hobby- suddenly it’s all gasp and fear and you’re damaging your baby.
Let’s get logical- long absences either damage a baby/child, or they don’t. Because children are far from logical, and I can tell you that they really don’t care *why* a parent is gone, they just care that they are gone. We can either say that their caring about the parent being gone inflicts long-term trauma, or we can’t. So we can either say that military families and business people and parents that send their kids to summer camp are damaging their children permanently, or it isn’t. We cannot arbitrarily apply our own values as to what is “worthy” of a parental absence, and then extrapolate that into whether or not the child is going to be affected negatively. If we base relative trauma based on the “worthiness” of the absence, we’re truly being absurd, and we’re clearly showing our own biases and values (we all have them, that’s fine, but they’re not logical or pertinent to this discussion). If we don’t think Mr. Businessman.com or Soldier Mommy/Daddy are damaging their child, then we cannot turn around and say Jenna is.
Also? Remember last summer, when Jenna moved to her parents house with T1, and TH stayed behind to do school things and look for an internship? Why wasn’t everyone freaking out then? To me the outrage smacks of sexism, for what it’s worth. This is the EXACT same summer arrangement, only this time TH is going and Jenna is staying home. I think a lot of people bristle at the line about how her mother will be T1?s primary caregiver, but that’s because TH will be working on the farm making money to support his family [editors note: just wanted to interject and say he will be doing some stuff for my dad at Clearwater Supply, which isn't technically the farm, but that's a small detail that really only matters to my family
], so they can do things like have Jenna live in Provo for 6 weeks and finish her degree. Honestly, I think it will be a healthy change of pace for everyone. T1 gets time with his grand parents, TH gets to spend quality time one-on-one with his in-laws, and Jenna gets to spend quality time ALONE, working towards a goal. She’s been a SAHM since T1 was born. Again, if we want to get real here, we could say that this 6 weeks out of 2 years of life (he’ll be 2 when this all goes down) is a blip on the radar compared to moms who work outside the home, couldn’t we? I’m clearly playing devil’s advocate here, so please know that I do NOT think any less of a working mom, I’m just using it as an example of how far we could take the “time away from your child is terrible!!” logic.
I’ve told Sophia how much I appreciate her and her comments in the past, but I’ll say it again. She is an awesome contributor to That Wife! I really appreciate the ways that she adds logic and rationale to the discussion, whether she agrees with me or not.
My post on going back to school has been… more popular than some of you might realize, and not in the nicest way. Just wanted to say thanks to all of those who are a breath of fresh (honest, kind, genuine, real, heartfelt, etc) air in the blog world.
October 26th, 2011 on 2:59 pm
I agree that the comment addresses a disparity that exists all too often in American culture very well. I agree that the typical line of thought is incredibly skewed toward a father’s absence being more acceptable which is totally sexist.
Spot on, Sophia.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:15 pm
I knew you would get a hard time for that, I’m so sorry! I think Sophia’s perspective is exactly right. Great comment.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:16 pm
Wow, I totally missed the drama on the previous post. I just scanned through the comments and saw lots of “well done, congratulations” type comments. Sorry people have been negative about it.
I suspect being away from T1 for sic weeks will be much more challenging for you than for him - he’ll have a blast!
Carry on being excited about going back to finish your degree
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:17 pm
Well said!! I absolutely agree and, while I don’t think that any kind of logic like this will get through to the haters since they choose to ignore reality so often, I am so happy that that comment made you feel better. No matter what others say, you know in your heart that you are a good mother, and the actions you take to better yourself will in turn better you as a mother to T1, and will make him a better, more well-rounded human being.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:32 pm
I think the thrust of it is the paragraph about sexism. You see this a lot among elected officials; female politicians get flak all the time for being bad mothers because their high-powered careers must be ruining their children. There’s nowhere near that level of scrutiny on male elected officials - no one asks, “If you are elected, who will take care of your children?” to a man.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:39 pm
GREAT comment.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 3:51 pm
Really well-written comment and completely true! Thanks for sharing.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:11 pm
I’ll be honest here…
This whole post got a big ‘ole eye roll from me…not because I disagree with the message but because all this post does is stir up more drama. Yes people have been very unfair with their criticisms but does anything think that this post is going to get people to back off? Probably not. In fact, I bet many people will have the same strong reaction to it. Let’s all remember, don’t feed the trolls.
Reply
Melissa Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
anyone think*
That will teach me to hit “Submit” before reading through my comment.
Reply
Zoe Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
I’m inclined to agree. Sophia’s comment has a great message which I agree with, but I would hope that it’s Jenna’s way of expressing how she feels using someone else’s words (this post might have been viewed differently if Jenna wrote it herself) instead of just using it to throw in the face of her negative commenters. At any rate…Jenna, congrats on going back to school and best of luck with finishing!
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:15 pm
Well said Sophia! That is exactly how I felt. Jenna, you are doing something very admiral.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:23 pm
I absolutely agree. Besides, it’s not as if this is a permanent situation or even a reoccurring one, so I’m not sure why so many people were getting their panties in a twist.
Also, T1 is so young, I doubt when he’s older he’ll say, “I resent my mom because I had to stay with my dad and grandparents for 6 weeks while she went and finished her education. How dare she?!” I’m sure he’ll still understand that he is loved and definitely not neglected, considering he’s going to be with such loving family while Jenna is away.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:40 pm
It’s not the same thing though. You are going back to get a degree you won’t use and up until fairly recently you didn’t even care about. I don’t see why this can’t wait or you all can’t go. And fwiw my husband refuses to do more than a 3 day work trip b/c he doesn’t want to leave the kids. They grow up so fast at that age, T1 is going to be almost a different person with new skills (how are you doing speech therapy while he’s gone?).
Reply
Alicia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
I think this is very unfair.
My mother-in-law went to BYU as well and didn’t finish, like Jenna. When she looked back a year later, she realized she had SIX credits left, but didn’t have the resources or time to finish with her young family.
Flash forward six kids and 25 years later, and she is STILL trying to finish. Because so much time has passed, she has had to complete around THIRTY more credit hours of independent study instead of the six she could have completed earlier. I hate seeing the regret in her eyes. My mother-in-law is not lazy; she has served as the state PTA parliamentarian and continues to serve a county’s worth of schools, not to mention she served for two years as the high school’s band booster president. She is also coordinating our local nativity festival this year. My mother-in-law is a busy woman with many interests. Doesn’t that sound like someone we know?
I think Jenna is being very wise in completing her education. What if her husband (unthinkably) passes away? What if they become dependent on her in the future for income if they are struck with illness or disability? It will be so much easier for her if she has that “piece of paper.” It is important to be prepared for whatever circumstances the future might bring her family.
I think it would be easy to brush away the fact that you didn’t finish if you had a lot left, but when you see that you came so close, why wouldn’t you try to do what is best for yourself and your family?
Jenna’s solution is a pretty good one- a summer semester at BYU only lasts about 6 weeks, and 9 credits is a lot for that amount of time. She will probably be in class 6 hours a day Monday, Wednesday and Friday and will have a lot of reading and writing on top of that. It would be difficult for TH to find a job for that short amount of time, not to mention the issue of who would be available to watch T1? I think Jenna has come up with a solution that will make this goal easier to achieve.
*Obviously, this struck pretty close to home for me; I hate watching my MIL struggle with this issue in her later life.
Reply
Ellie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
I think the timing worked out really well for them and that’s why she isn’t waiting - since TH can wait to start back at work (and if I remember right, he had an extremely demanding job that probably wouldn’t have given Jenna much time to work on her schoolwork without getting somebody else to watch T1) right away, Jenna can finish her degree. I know that for me, sometimes it feels like the stars just line up and you have to go for it, because you don’t always get opportunities like this.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
Wait, Josie, why is it your job to make decisions about Jenna’s education? Sure, she’s a SAHM, but what if one day her kiddies are all grown up and she wants a job? What if one day she NEEDS to get a job? A degree is a social safety net. Why would anyone so close to graduation not pursue that? Jenna has found an opportunity and taken it. There is a difference between things that are hard and things that are damaging. What really gets me about this situation is that T1 is going to be with his FATHER and his GRANDPARENTS. Why is T1 Jenna’s kid and not theirs?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
She’s getting an English degree, it’s not like she’s going back for engineering or something useful. And my whole problem with this they’re uprooting their kid again, for something she has shown zero interest in until she found out she could be kid free for 6 weeks.
Reply
Meg Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
I know you wont, so I’ll apologize for you. For insulting others who have a degree in English.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Several of my friend with English degrees work in H.R., in financial services, as teachers, as technical writers, as copy editors, as business owners…
There are many jobs for which one simply has to have a degree to even apply- doesn’t matter what subject, it’s just a prerequisite to apply. A degree gets you in the door in a lot of places, even if it isn’t a specialty degree. Furthermore, having one’s undergrad would allow one to then go on to grad school to get specialized instruction to make a career change. My friend has her undergrad in Arts & Humanities, and is now getting her master’s degree in Computer Information Systems. It’s a one year program, only 10 classes, but she couldn’t do it without the base degree. God forbid something happened to TH, it would be helpful to have a degree simply for a starting point, if nothing else.
But, I’m admittedly biased because I’ve been rooting for Jenna to finish for a while now. Oh, and I’m studying to be an English teacher, so I think I’m double biased
Reply
Lacey Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:54 am
Agreed! An English degree is a wonderful and flexible degree to have, especially if you want to pursue further studies. My undergrad is in English, and I went on to get my M.Sc. in Speech-Language Pathology. English can help a person transition nicely into law, library science, teaching…so many options once you have a degree!
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Hahahaha wow. So would you give permission to Jenna to leave and study neurosurgery for 6 weeks? Maybe you should write out a set of rules so Jenna can adhere to them next time she makes a personal decision.
I don’t know if you’ve ever applied for a job, but usually the person with better credentials wins it. If Jenna ever had to get a job, currently all she has to show on he resume is a high school diploma. 6 weeks in Provo and she can write ‘bachelors degree’ on her resume. Not to mention her child will be with his own FATHER. Sounds like Jenna chose the wise option.
And its pretty much just trollish to say she didn’t care for her degree until there was a possibility of leaving her kid for 6 weeks. Were you sitting in her brain when she made that decision? And have you ever had to do a dull online class with a toddler tugging on your leg?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
She could have TH watch him while she did the online class. Then she wouldn’t have to leave her small child for 6 complete weeks. I fail to see how leaving for 6 weeks b/c it’s easier for you and you get a library (b/c Chicago doesn’t have libraries???) is better than a few online classes while your hubs parents. I don’t care if I’m coming off as trollish. I see this as one of many detached parenting decisions being made and I cannot keep my mouth shut anymore.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
You really don’t think Jenna has thought this through and come to the best decision for her family? Do you think you know enough to be able to make a better decision for Jenna than Jenna herself, who knows the whole picture, can?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
Based on her posting and what she shows us of her interactions (and how often she blogs and updates twitter), no. She screams PPD or just don’t give a shit about parenting to me.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
Congratulations on being judgmental.
Reply
Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:19 am
What degree do you have to diagnose someone as having PPD (a serious condition that shouldn’t be used lightly). And if you are qualified to make this diagnosis, you should know better than assuming PPD with a few Tweets and blog comments. PPD is serious and requires assessment.
Reply
Hayley Marie Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
I happen to have a degree that would allow me to diagnose PPD and all I have to say is… 1. I would never make a diagnosis over a few comments easily taken out of context and 2. Jenna talks about how even though she blogs often, you are getting a snapshot of her life. A SNAPSHOT not the big picture, not the whole story, not the moments that might be too personal to share with bloggers who seem to care as much as josie does (go figure).
Reply
erin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
Oh geez, I have an English degree. And a Political Science one. They’re both fairly useless. Anyway, I don’t think Josie is implying that it’s worthless to get a degree. Just that it’s a bit odd to suddenly be so concerned about getting it.
I think it’s great for someone to finish up their degree, but it is in no way some magical piece of paper that will guarantee a lucrative future.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
I don’t think there is any illusion about the magical qualities of a degree, but it is not for Josie to decide the worth of Jennas degree. Just having a degree makes a person more employable, so it seems silly to discredit Jenna’s desire to finish school because Josie doesn’t like the major she chose. I studied humanities for 3 years, I’m perfectly aware of what opportunities are and are not available with a liberal arts degree. A lot of money went into Jenna completing most of a degree, why not take advantage of an opportunity to finish when it became available? And why is it anyone else’s business anyway?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
B/c she’s publicly posting it.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:43 pm
A few thoughts…. and hopefully this isn’t seen as “attacking” or “trolling” because I’m neither, but I didn’t contribute to the earlier discussion and thought this was more relevant to me. I’m a teacher and in order to move over a column in my pay scale (which only makes up for my cut salary over the past several years) I had to take 21 semester units which I did over my summer break while my two kids went to daycare during the day.
Online it seems like Jenna and TH have a very TRADITIONAL relationship when it comes to the role the man and woman play in their family and while I agree with Sophia I think some readers were taken back when Jenna announced she would be staying in Utah for 6 weeks. Since Jenna has been the primary caretaker and TH the primary breadwinner she is just leaving her job for 6 weeks to finish her degree which she’s talked about multiple times how it wasn’t important to her.
Most mothers do not have the option or want to leave their children for 6 weeks and yes, fathers and mothers leave their homes for long period of times, but 90% of the times that is out of necessity for a job and not by choice. Your comparison to military personal being deployed is in no way relevant to this situation, those individuals do not get to choose when, if or how long they leave their families.
So while the role reversal is not uncommon these days I do not think it’s fair to compare Jenna’s situation to those of working individuals because if we as working mom’s want to keep our paying jobs, we do not have the choice to not go on business trips and leave our families, while Jenna has the choice to finish college online or in person and she chose the option where she has to leave her family for an extended period of time, which is caught a few people off guard.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought the military comparison was off.
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
The military comparison was way off. Not even remotely related.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Rebecca, we do not have a draft. People choose to go into the military, knowing full well the sacrifice it requires. For what it’s worth, I’m grateful for their sacrifice. But it is most certainly not forced upon them.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Yes, as a military wife, I can attest to the fact that we chose this! We have GREAT benefits and perks (at least as an officer’s wife…can’t speak specifically for those that are enlisted) and we pay for that with sacrfices of time. People have their opportunities (albiet not on a day-to-day basis) to leave the military if they find what’s asked of unsatisfactory.
Reply
Lydia (@InhabitBeauty) Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:00 am
This is an attitude I have not seen much of in my personal experience, but one that I value deeply. Thanks for speaking up.
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:56 am
I understand that we don’t have a draft, and that military service is technically a choice. However, I disagree with any comparison to a choice to leave your family for a career in military service and to protect our country, to Jenna going back to BYU for 6 weeks to finish her English degree. I would venture to guess that most military parents would choose to stay home with their families if they could, but that’s not the choice that Jenna made, even though it was available to her.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:53 am
Rebecca- “However, I disagree with any comparison to a choice to leave your family for a career in military service and to protect our country, to Jenna going back to BYU for 6 weeks to finish her English degree.” I do too, which is why I never made that comparison. I said that, in either of those situations, the *result* is the same- a child is left without one of his or her parents. My point is that we excuse the absence of a parent in the military situation, and say that it’s fine, but then we turn around and say that Jenna’s absence is somehow worse, or more damaging, which is to me an illogical distinction that speaks more about our value judgments than about the reality of a parental absence for a child. I elaborated upon this distinction in my reply to you below, when you asked if I honestly thought the reasons for the absence don’t matter.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
It’s not technically a choice it IS a choice - 100%.
And even though no man/woman relishes in the idea of leaving family behind, they do it because it’s got to be done.
My husband hasn’t been deployed yet (I say yet b/c we are almost certain his turn will come around in the next 2 yrs or so) but he’s been gone a LOT for trainings, TDYs, and other duties, way more than Jenna’s 6 weeks. And my kids - and me - are okay. And the 6 months will suck big time, but we’ll be okay. They are not scarred for life - in fact, being younger for these absences is actuall preferential. They won’t remember.
Jenna’s 6 weeks is a blip of time in comparison to the seperations that many families, military or not, sometimes have to experience.
Reply
Elaine Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Just to point out the obvious Josie & Candace - people CHOOSE to go into the military, with the knowledge that they will almost definitely be required to leave their family at some point.
Let’s stir the pot up here even more and say that perhaps time away from one’s family is not always a negative, and in fact, can strengthen one’s appreciation for those relationships, and be quite a positive experience.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Josie, I’m not sure if you’ll be able to see my reply below, but it was also a reply to your comment.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
I’m sorry, but I beg to disagree. It most certainly IS a choice. No one forced them to go into the service. They chose to, knowing the long deployment times. In addition, they chose to have children. I’m not saying that’s a negative, but to imply that they didn’t have a choice in the matter is not really a true statement.
Further, this goes back to my main point- it doesn’t matter *why* they are gone. If we are arguing that this absence will traumatize T1, then we naturally have to say that military parents willfully traumatize their children when they leave, too. And I don’t think anyone has ever said that- nor would ever say that, because it’s simply not fair.
Reply
Hannah Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Being in the military is a choice, so I think the comparison is perfectly relevant.
Also, even if she DID finish her schooling online, if she were to put in the necessary time and energy to pass, she’d probably still be absent — maybe not physically, but mentally. It may have put a heavier burden on her child and husband to try and do it online than just leave and do it all at once.
At the end of the day, I think this is all about opinion. And there’s only one person’s opinion that matters: Jenna’s.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
So true, Hannah! Why should Jenna trudge through an online course? Why can’t Jenna do something for her?? I have no time for martyr mommies who think hey must sacrifice all personal edification for their children. Nobody benefits from that. And its not even a purely selfish thing she’s pursuing. Its something for her that will secure her family a better future (a degree is a pretty important thing to have if one day circumstances require her to be the breadwinner). Something that does not require a damaging sacrifice on her family’s part (her child will be WITH HIS OTHER PARENT). Sheesh.
Reply
Hannah Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
Agreed! Plus, even if TH couldn’t be there…what a great opportunity for T1 and his grandparents to bond! I would bet if T1 COULD remember it, he would cherish those 6 weeks as a wonderful experience his entire life.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Military service is a choice. They’re not random people who are spontaneously pulled from their homes for years at a time.
Reply
Candace Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Yes, for some it is a choice, it is not a choice for every person. Many individuals who come from low income and under-served communities do not have the financial support to attend college and use the military as a way to gain employment or as a way to get through college and then must enter to “repay”.
Regardless if it’s a military position or a regular job, people need to be employed to support their families and my main point was that Jenna’s choice to attend college and leave for six weeks is not out of necessity for a job and this is in no way attacking Jenna because if this was the same situation with a different person I would feel the exact same way.
Just because people don’t agree with what she is doing does not mean we are “hating” on Jenna. In life you are not always going to come across people who support or love the decision you make. It’s a part of growing and if Jenna never wants to see a comment that disagrees with her then she should not have an open comment section which the point is to DISCUSS.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
That is still a choice though… I understand that circumstances can push people one way or another, but it is still a choice. I don’t care to argue about that though.
Why is it your place to judge Jenna, or anyone? Why should Jenna adhere to your belief that a choice to leave her child with his father for a short period of time should only be made in the case of dire need? If Jenna needs her degree to suddenly get a job one day, then will her need be dire enough to meet your rules? Give the girl a break. She changed her mind about school, she’s leaving her kid with his own Daddy for 6 weeks, and heaven forbid she should have a positive experience studying too.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Candace, I just wanted to say that I in no way think you are “hating” on Jenna, I just disagree with your opinion. I’m not trying to be disrespectful to you or anything with my responses, or make you feel dogpiled.
Reply
Erin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
I’m loving this discussion. First, I agree that military service is a choice for some, but not all. It is a sad fact that our current enlisted military personnel are not a random sample of our country’s population. They are less educated, from poorer families/communities and have a higher rate of childhood trauma than those who don’t enlist. For many of them, joining the military was the best possible option for them and maybe the only way “out” of their current situations. And then there are the many military officers I’ve had the pleasure of being friends with (I’ve worked at VAs and lived in large military towns) - they all CHOSE this, without a doubt. Though - I’ve met a lot of people who joined the military during a much more peaceful time and have worked with vets at the VA who served for 10+ years and never saw a deployment. We haven’t always had so many deployed troops.
BUT, what got me really excited about Sophia’s comment was lumping together Jenna, those who are serving oversees, and someone going on a two-week writer’s retreat as a hobby. It made me want to go on a retreat - or to be honest, a really long vacation. I think that military personnel, Jenna, and those going away for a hobby/vacay will ALL have a readjustment period when they resume being in the child’s life fulltime. I also think a mother who works outside of the home, maybe as a teacher, will have a transition time too during the summer months when they are home full time.
I don’t think an absence is inherently good or bad, black or white. Having a fulfilled, happy parent is important. Having close loving relationships with a variety of caregivers is important. I think that this arrangement is going to be VERY positive for T1, TH, the grandparents, and Jenna. I think there are aspects of this arrangement that will be hard on all of them: Jenna will miss T1 terribly, he will miss her and there will likely be a brief adjustment period when she returns, TH and Jenna will miss each other, TH may have evenings when he wishes Jenna were there to help with some T1 stuff, and the grandparents are going to be SO SAD when the 6 weeks are over. But just because there are aspects that will be hard for all parties involved doesn’t mean there aren’t many many many good things to come from this 6-week arrangement. Like everything, there are good and bad aspects to this situation and I think the good outweigh the bad and I’m really excited for Jenna and her family.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
Erin- “I don’t think an absence is inherently good or bad, black or white. Having a fulfilled, happy parent is important. Having close loving relationships with a variety of caregivers is important.” YES.
Reply
Lindsey Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Actually, it is a myth that disproportionately large numbers of soldiers are from low-income areas. Most soldiers do not join the military because they have no choice financially. Certainly there are some, but not nearly as many as is popularly believed. Here are a couple articles with some statistics for you. http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2005/11/who-bears-the-burden-demographic-characteristics-of-us-military-recruits-before-and-after-9-11
and http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903791504576587244025371456.html
Just to set the record straight about who’s serving in our military
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 4:52 pm
I agree with this, but Jenna is not leaving T1 to go to war or to go on a business trip, she’s choosing to leave him so she can finish school in the way she wants to. I think it’s great that she wants to finish her degree, but why now? Why at a time when T1 is so young, so vulnerable, and is obviously struggling? He was just diagnosed with speech and developmental delays, he needs the attention of both his parents right now, especially his mother. I just can’t help but wonder how this will affect his developmental issues in the long run.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
And she doesn’t have to leave at all to finish her degree. She wants to b/c it’s easier for her. This is what is making me so angry. She’s choosing to leave her child for 6 weeks. Not out of necessity, but b/c it makes her life easier.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
And what is wrong with that? Is it wrong for a woman to make choices that are for her happiness? Is she supposed to be miserable? It is wrong to make a choice that will have significant negative consequences on others, but this is not the case in this situation. A two year old will spend 6 lovely weeks with his grandparents and his own father, and afterwards, life will go on.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Kids always have issues. There will never be a time in your child’s life when they say “Hey mom! Everything is *perfect* for me right now. Go ahead and take a leave of absence for a bit!” There will always be reasons to stay behind specifically for your child - but if life and circumstances line themselves up in such a way to allow for something that can be beneficial, then sometimes you have to go for it.
And really - 6 weeks isn’t all that long. I’d be worried about his speech delays if going to visit Grandma meant sitting by himself for 8 hours a day with no stimulation. That would be a concern. But the reality is that T1 will be so handled, played with, conversed with, and stimulated (that’s just how Grandma’s are!;) that it may even reinforce in such a valuable and practical way all the formal therapy he gets before and after.
My son has been involved with speech therapy for as long as I can remember (he’s 5 and he has Down syndrome) and while it’s valuable and am completely willing to make the time for it on a weekly basis (among his other appts), there is still nothing quite like real world interactions for a child struggling with speech & developmental delays. I’m not a therapist, but I mom whose done this for quite awhile!
Reply
Jessy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:11 am
I really don’t see the big deal in this. Sure t1 is 18 months will be 2 when this happens and will NOT even remember the 6 weeks, 6 months or even a yr that he spends away from Jenna; I think the 6 weeks will be much harder on Jenna then on t1. Plus as a first time mom myself I very often catch myself thinking my mom could do a much better job with my child then I can, yes I do love them with all my being but I do struggle on everyday decisions on what is right or wrong, and gosh she did such a good job with me and my siblings that I would trust her fully with my child. I also believe that a change of environment will be great for t1, even for his speech development, although I believe that when this happens he will be past this phase, he will have attention 24/7 from loving grandparents, with lots of space (from what I understood) to be free. If you guys always argue that Jenna is not a good mom (ps: I in no way think or agree with it) you guys should be glad he will be with his grandparents. People one thing I came to learn is that most of the times when you are so passionate about something like this is because you wish you had the options the other person has, you secretly wish that you were in the other persons shoes. I don’t think I could survive being away from my baby, but Jenna is doing a great thing and I applaud her for it. I wish I had the guts to not be so dependable on my baby and do something for me every once in a while.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 5:14 pm
Huh, I’m confused as well, as I didn’t see any negative comments on the original post? Seemed like almost all of the comments were of the congratulations kind. Maybe I’m missing something.
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
I think she’s referring to the fact that the post about her going back to BYU was re-posted elsewhere, and there was a lot of negative feedback.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
That’s because she deletes the negative comments
Reply
Karin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Cupcakes — Do you have kids? If so, I’d recommend you spend more time with them then you do commenting negatively on this blog and the other one. Perhaps you should spend less time trying to bring other people down and more time being a positive influence to those around you. You’ve gone way beyond trying to discuss a point of disagreement and moved into the hurtful territory. Sorry that you feel like you have to put others down to make yourself feel better.
Reply
Melissa Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:54 am
…I must have missed something here. I don’t understand why you are attacking Cupcakes for saying that Jenna deletes negative comments. She has told her readers several times that she does that. Of course, she doesn’t delete all of them but she does delete most comments that can be viewed as personal attacks on her or her family.
Maybe Cupcakes said something else and it was deleted? If not, I think you need to take a step back because attacking someone for answering a question in an accurate way is kind of bizarre.
Reply
Karin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
To clarify I am (a) not attacking cupcakes and (b) it is not based on her one comment above. Instead, if you read through the string of comments she/he has posted on both this site and the other one where Jenna’s post was “reposted” you will see a string of negative and unnecessary comments directed at Jenna. Please, if there was simply one isolated comment by cupcake, I wouldn’t have said a thing. That isn’t the case, however, as demonstrated by her repeated negative comments that do not actually provide anything meaningful to the discussion.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
I don’t know if it was clear in my original comment, but I tried to say that it was more of a general musing on how doing something like Jenna is doing is usually not common, and how it’s usually something that we excuse in other circumstances.
I can sometimes get a bit tangential and reflective when posts remind me of other larger issues, so I’m sorry if it seemed out of left field or random
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 5:39 pm
It’s not that you’re leaving him for six weeks, it’s that it seems (SEEMS) like you don’t CARE that you’re leaving him for six weeks. Plus, you aren’t supporting your family financially through this; you are actually adding more financial burden on your family in order to earn a vanity degree that you aren’t planning on using. Something like that could have waited until after your child is out of this crucial stage in life. Are you going to use your degree and find a job outside of the home?
Reply
Meg Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Should she now write a huge long post about how she does care? Why are you assuming she doesn’t care just because she doesn’t write about it. Perhaps any emotional termoil she is experiencing is a private matter and we don’t get that piece of her.
This isn’t a financial budget, I’m guessing, because they have a budget. This is what people miss most about Jenna’s life and anyone really who has a budget. The amazing thing about telling your money where to go is that you determine..well, where it goes. So I’m guessing that they will be budgeting for her stay there, making sure that it doesn’t take precedence over other things financially.
Aren’t children in crucial stages at every year. When should she do something for herself, when she’s 30? 40? 50?
I don’t think this is a vanity degree. Jenna could use the knowledge she gains from this degree into earning money for her family in ways that don’t require her to leave the home. Like writing for online journals or news papers. Or fine tuning her own writing to earn more sponsorship.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
That’s my retort as well - when *don’t* your kids need you!? If you wait until your kids won’t miss or need you, you’ll never do it until they are all practically out of college themselves (which is a perfectly valid choice as well).
From what I hear from more veteran parents (parents of teenagers), that is just as critical a time in their life as the younger years! Gee, I personally will be less likely to leave when they are older - I want to keep an eye on those crazy teenagers.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 5:45 pm
There is a website where people are making a lot of noise about this, a website that I won’t mention by name or initials out of respect for Jenna but that isn’t too difficult to find if you must know.
Honestly.. I’m conflicted about this idea. I tend to think that a woman finishing her degree always = good, and I’ve questioned IRL friends who have gone off to marry and have babies and abandoned degrees in process.
But there are a couple of mitigating factors.. first, it is HARD to be in school and be a parent. I have not done it but my husband has and it’s killer. My friend finished her degree after unexpectedly getting pregnant and having her son in her senior year of college and it was difficult. So part of me believes that once that children have arrived that perhaps finishing a degree needs to take a lesser role unless it’s directly going to contribute to the Needs (from the Wants vs Needs idea Jenna has discussed before) of the family.
With that idea in mind.. Jenna has repeatedly defended her decision to NOT complete her degree. While originally I disagreed with her, once she became a parent and T1 became her full-time job, I didn’t see much point to rush it. Sure, it would be wonderful to have that piece of paper, but at this point in her life, her money-making skill has nothing to do with an English degree and she already got, what, 3 or more years of the “college experience” and most of her credits, so what’s valuable to HER as a person has mostly been accomplished. What’s left is the formalization.
And that’s valuable too. And I can’t say how valuable it is to Jenna vs. any other aspect of her life, or what kind of factors went into the decision of on-campus vs. online courses, BYU vs. transferring to a Chicago or Dallas university (which would probably drop some of her credits), the whole family being in Provo vs. TH and T1 in Washington.
There are people out there who question Jenna fundamentally as a person and a parent and I’m NOT one of them. However, I am a parent who, like Jenna, loves her child, and I’m a parent who can’t imagine being separated from that child for 6 weeks, for something that in the long-run is essentially just a bucket-list item. I would be less confused about this decision if Jenna had always been lamenting the fact that she never finished her degree, but she’s been repeatedly vocal about how it wasn’t important to her. Why now? Why like this? Why after learning that T1 is in need of a little more help than expected in order to thrive and excel the way that Jenna and TH hope he will? Those are the questions I’m asking.
At the end of the day, though, it’s true what Jenna is telling is constantly — we see a LOT of her life but we don’t see all of it. And we didn’t hear the whole conversation that she and TH had to make this decision.. it probably answers a lot of the questions that people like me have. Who am I to demand that she must give us all of the details of a conversation like that, or her list of reasons? I can only ask, the way I’ve asked before about other issues, and respect the sense of dialogue that Jenna’s established with her commenting community over the course of her blog.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
I agree with a lot of this. I cant say I think the entire decision is wrong, but I would actually feel better about it if he were older. Younger seems worse to me, but that is just me. Either way, there is no need to bash Jenna.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Oh, and it is still your life Jenna, it’s not like you need our approval anyway. However, the only reason I do comment on subjects like this is because I’m assuming you are wanting feedback when you post something.
Reply
Megan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
I love this comment. This is exactly what I couldn’t articulate.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 6:07 pm
I think the thing that raised my eyebrows the most was this:
Going to school and leaving the blog for six weeks: Not Possible
Going to school and leaving the baby and husband for six weeks: No Problem
I do think school is important, I just don’t understand why the thought of not connecting to all of us “cyber buddies” is such a priority, while family can take a backseat during this time. Be very careful. Kids are incredibly observant, and while T1 may not see it now, he will. And the day he asks why you like your phone/computer/etc more than him will break your heart.
Reply
Elaine Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Blogging and “connecting with cyber buddies” are two different things. Blogging is akin to journalling in my mind: It helps air out thoughts and talk through issues we’re struggling with or thinking about. Again, this sort of comment seems to smack of this idea that a woman must sacrifice her own wants or prioritize herself second (or third, or fourth!) in order for her to be considered a good Mother. Women and men who take care of their wants and/or their relationships, and who pursue their goals stoke the fire in their souls - this is something that definitely makes someone a good parent, because they set a model of behaviour that says, “don’t forget who you are, and don’t forget that you are also important”. Everything in moderation, I say. Love your children, but for gosh sakes, love yourself and tend to your own life too.
Reply
Amber Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 7:17 am
THIS. I agree wholeheartedly with this comment. Jenna, do what is best for you and your family. Nothing else matters.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 6:56 pm
I loved her comment…I won’t elaborate on my thoughts because they have been echoed several times elsewhere.
All I’d like to say is, I don’t know how you don’t post a photo of yourself flipping off your haters…because sometimes, I’d like to do it for you. Seriously, if they don’t like what they read or who you are or who they THINK you are…they can go be obsessed with somebody else’s life via blogging!
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 7:39 pm
Jenna, I think you know why you got negative comments. You have said over and over again that a degree is not important to you, or your family, at all in the foreseeable future. You had a lot of people disagree with you, but you insisted you didn’t need it and it wasn’t important. But now, it’s important enough to justify leaving your child for 6 weeks. So, either it was that important to you and you didn’t want to admit it publicly, or you have some other reason that justifies leaving T1.
Reply
Candace Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
EXACTLY and at the time when people were disagreeing with her she was probably pissed off at them and calling them haters. Just like when people suggested that T1 might need speech therapy and she should get him evaluated to see if he needs extra help….those people were haters as well, but she never thanked them or apologized for lashing out at them.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Anyone who disagrees with her is a hater and a troll, don’t you know?
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
A few people seem to raise this concern, and I tink it is a fair one… Jenna has talked down her education in the past. But have none of us ever changed our minds? Has life never proved any of us wrong and made us do a 180 on our beliefs/plans?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Not about something as college and not in as short a time span.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
*as large as
I can’t type tonight.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
I do see what you’re saying- that it seemed to be sudden- but from the other post she said that they started talking about it a few months ago, and they’re not doing this until next summer. So all in all, it’s a year from thinking “hmm, maybe I’ll do this?” to actually doing it. If this was happening in the next month or two, it would be pretty hectic. But next summer means that T1 will have all winter and spring for speech therapy in Chicago. Plus, they were going to be moving next summer anyway, and T1 is familiar with his grandparents’ home already.
I think I can sympathize with realizing you can do something and then jumping on it though, because that’s exactly how I went back to graduate school to get my second master’s degree and my teaching certification. We decided in January of 2011 that we would not, as we had planned, leave Colorado in May of 2011. Instead, we’d stay another year. I had always toyed with getting certified, but it never seemed convenient to dedicate a year to schooling/internship without getting paid. I found a program, applied in January, studied for two months and took and passed my test, and was in a classroom come the end of July 2011. I do think that sometimes these opportunities just kind of fall into your lap, and sometimes you take them.
This isn’t to disparage your opinion, just to offer another perspective from someone who had a similar “oh, wait, I can do this? Let’s do this!” moment.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I had a similar experience as Sophia. I’m not aware of any universal laws that dictate a size or timeframe for changing your mind!
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:53 am
Oh, friends, you have never met me. I make super quick, life-changing decisions. I made a decision to accept a grad school offer without ever hearing from any other universities. I went to visit the campus and signed a lease before I left because it felt right.
I started seriously dating my husband (I’ll give you that we were friends before), was engaged less than a week later, and married 3 months after that.
I made the decision to leave the US to study abroad, TWICE, in a two-week period.
Some people work quickly, others deliberate for a long time.
Reply
Emily Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Has nothing to do with whether or not she’s “allowed” to change her mind. She lectured people via this blog over and over about how it wasn’t important to get her degree, and how moms should stay at home with their children. Now, it’s fine to be away from T1 for 6 weeks to go to college, BUT she’s expecting that no one ask for an explanation or wonder what else might be going on.
Well, as someone who works outside the home and finished two degrees, I took a personal exception to Jenna’s comments about both staying at home and going to school. So I don’t think it’s so outrageous that I would want to know what prompted her to change her mind about things she claimed to believe in.
Reply
phruphru Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Jenna HAS said in the past, though, when asked if she regretted leaving college early to get married that if she could go back in time, she would tell herself to graduate and THEN get married. I know she has said this more than once. So there.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 8:06 pm
Jenna, I think your plans are great. It is wonderful that you will be able to finish your degree, and it will be a good experience for you. Your situation reminds me of an essay by Courtney Kendrick about her ‘selfish’ mother and how she had plenty of herself to give to her children because she knew when she needed to cater to her own needs. It is a very smart move to finish a degree, T1 is going to have a wonderful summer bonding with his grandparents and daddy, and you’ll have a great time too, being able to study on campus. Online study is awful! . I am in a similarish position and have made decisions that will allow me to get an education I feel I need in order to prepare myself in the event that circumstances make me the breadwinner, but have decided this goal is conditional upon adhering to boundaries that will ensure our child’s welfare in the meantime. Our arrangement involves the majority of time spent with us (school is.much more flexible than work), and a little time spent with grandmothers when time with baby’s own parents isn’t possible. So I guess I somewhat relate to your situation, I would have made the same decision, and I believe there is nothing wrong with your little one spending time surrounded by his own father and his grandparents.
I guess in LDS culture we have a pretty specific recipe for childrearing, and people get spooked when someone breaks the mould. I agree fully with the ‘traditional’ parenting model, but only because it is based on ideals that I agree with. I believe that if you take those same ideals and put them into practise, you can end up with a million variations, and we shouldn’t be distracted by those differences.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 8:25 pm
A few people have wondered what prompted my comment, given the lack of negative comments on the other post. One, there was one that was pretty rough, but it was deleted. Two, a *very* similar situation came up in my family and the mother was given grief over it and I thought it was unfair then, as I do now. Regarding what I see as a double standard when it comes to father’s absence vs. mother’s absences, as a sociology/gender studies student it’s just hard for me to not see it through this “lens”. Also, as I mentioned upthread, this arrangement is unconventional, and I was musing on how it might be perceived, and how I thought that the negative perception was unfair and, I think, irrational.
One thing, that I’m still not sure is clear- a few people are continuing to try and draw distinctions between “necessary, worthy absences” aka military service, business trips, etc., and “unnecessary, selfish absences” aka finishing school or going on a fun trip. To me, as I expressed in my original comment, this is a moot and irrelevant point. Babies and children are not logical creatures, and they can not be told “THIS long absence is ok honey, because mommy is a soldier” or “THIS long absence is ok honey, because daddy needs to go on a business trip to China to support us”. Either kids are damaged by absences, or they’re not. If they are, it doesn’t MATTER if Mommy leaves for 6 weeks for school, or 6 weeks for basic training- she’s being a bad parent, right? If they are NOT, then it also doesn’t matter if it’s 6 weeks for school or 6 weeks for basic training.
To try and take the third path of “some absences are ok if I think they are necessary and thus they do not harm the child, but other unnecessary absences do harm the child” is clearly a personal value judgment, not a logically consistent expression of true concern for the child. If one were truly concerned for the child, they would be castigating ALL parental absences, regardless of the motives/reasons/excuses for them. Yet that is clearly not the case, as was evidenced by the offense taken to my military comparison.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
One last clarification- I’m not saying that going to school and going to Iraq are the same thing. Of course I’m not saying that- that would be an absurd comparison.
I’m saying that the situation it puts the child in is the same- a parent is gone. And it makes little sense (to me) to try and say that somehow an irrational little child- or a baby- can differentiate between a “worthy absence” and an “unworthy absence”, and then decide, accordingly, whether or not they are going to be negatively affected by it.
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Agreed. I don’t think a 6 week absence matters, nor does the reason. If she was doing this a few times a year, I would feel different but as it is, I feel there’s absolutely no reason to judge.
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Honest question - no sarcasm at all: do you really honestly think that the reason for the absence of a parent doesn’t matter at all?
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Yes, if we’re talking about concern for the affect on the child. Now, if we’re talking about judgments that adults make on other adults for absences, sure, we all have biases as to what is a “worthy” absence. But those are two totally different things. Our judging and absence worthy or not worthy has nothing to do with the issue of concern for the child- in the end, and absence is an absence. If we’re saying “parental absences damage a kid”, and if we’re talking (especially) about young children who are scientifically not psychologically capable of higher order reasoning, then, to me, we cannot split hairs and say that somehow a child will take a “worthy absence” better than a “non-worthy absence”. What I mean by that is that a 4 year old is not going to take in the reason, assess it logically, make a value judgment as to the merit of the absence, and then say “oh, ok, well, if it was for selfish reasons I would totally be traumatized, but hey, I understand, you do what you gotta do, I’ll be fine”.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think that absences like this are traumatizing for kids as long as they have a support system of loving caretakers. My opinion on it is that business trips, military parents, Jenna being gone for 6 weeks, etc., are all absences that children can, and do, take in stride when they are surrounded with loving caretakers. It seems a few people have tried to twist my words into saying something absurd like “going to Iraq= going to school”. No, but the affect is the same- a child feels the absence of his or her parent. And we can either say that a parental absence is damaging, or it’s not. From all the child development literature I’ve studied it just doesn’t seem logical to say that somehow a 2 year old will be damaged by a 6 week “selfish” absence, but will not be damaged by a months long absence for work. Again, I don’t think either of those situations damage a kid, but to me it’s a bit absurd to think that one will, and one won’t, simply based on the reasons behind it. 2 year olds don’t understand our adult reasons behind things. Perhaps a 10-12 year old, yes. But small children? No. Hell, psychologically, 16 year olds aren’t even fully capable of higher order thinking and reasoning, and have trouble conceptualizing the future, or things like delayed gratification.
Of course, the reason for the absence is absolutely something that adults can discuss and make judgments as to good or bad- it’s happening right here in the comments section, and I find it fascinating. But, logically, it doesn’t make sense (to me) to say that somehow those adult based reasons can somehow magically make a parental absence positive or negative for a 2 year old child. If they could, I would have to then accept a situation in which a 2 year old child could somehow conceptualize things like selfishness, monetary concerns, career choices, and that would be absurd. So I’m left with thinking “absences- regardless of the reasons- are not traumatic for children as long as they have a strong support system of loving caretakers”. But that’s just my opinion, based on my studies in child psychology and my own personal experiences and the experiences of the children around me whose parents have had to leave for various reasons. It’s also really difficult for me to place importance upon the nuclear family over the extended family, which is also why I am not bothered by this situation. If one thinks that the Westernized nuclear family of mom, dad, kids is more important than connections with grandparents or family friends, then I can see how this would affect them differently. As a pretty radical progressive who has an unconventional family filled with adoptions and gay marriages and re-marriages and grandparents taking in their grandchildren as their own, and as someone who is as close to her uncles as she is to her own father, I see no issues with having kids go off and be with extended family with whom they are familiar. To me, 6 weeks with one’s father, grandfather, and grandmother, in a house with which one is familiar, for 6 weeks in a time when technology allows one to see and talk with someone on a computer screen, sounds like something that would be a non-issue.
Either way, I’ve sincerely enjoyed this discussion. I think it’s always good to examine our values and how we apply them when making judgments of our own and others’ actions.
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 12:28 am
Honestly? No. Not really. If it were for a drug-induced orgy, I would probably think differently but as it is? I would be fine with her choice to leave even if it were just for some r ‘n r or “me time” as everybody likes to call it. Show me some studies about how the short absence of a parent (just one parent, while baby is with other family including dad) is detrimental in any way, and I would reconsider. Until then, I say “stow it.”
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 8:29 pm
I too read a lot of the comments on the other post the other day and didn’t really see a lot of hateful comments, but maybe some of them were deleted? I guess, I don’t see the decision she is making as a horrible one, simply because, I highly doubt T1 will remember much of that time, if any at all. I don’t have many memories from when I was 2 (maybe 2 or 3 total). The argument that this is going to scar T1? I don’t see it. Furthermore, I can see the appeal of getting it all done this summer and over with (being a full time worker & part time student with 20 credits left on my bachelor’s degree).
I don’t know if everyone saw her reply comment on her original post the other day, but I think it is useful in answering the question, “but why did you change your mind?” :
“I still don’t think it will be used, but once that foreign language barrier was removed it felt much more accessible. It never really felt like it made much sense to finish everything but the foreign language and then just hope I finished someday. Now I can finish everything all at once which is much more appealing.”
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Thanks for posting this.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 8:31 pm
I echo the others above. I’ve read the threads all about hating on Jenna, and they’re way harsh. But they point out some valid things.
You’ve said over and over again that your degree was not important. Even when your parents offered to pay you to do it, it wasn’t important. But now, when your son really needs hands-on attention, it seems all of a sudden important to be away from him for 6 weeks.
I do not think it’d be bad for T1. He obviously has grandparents that dote on him, and even though TH admittedly doesn’t seem like a very involved father, he’d be there as well. The whole situation just kind of irks me because it really does seem like you only want to go away for 6 weeks to escape your life.
I am 100% willing to admit that my perception is based on an incomplete view of your life, but it’s the only view I have. I know what you tell us. And what you’ve told us really makes this seem like a very selfish decision.
Reply
MissPinkKate Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
I’ll agree with this. Sounds like T1 will have a fabulous summer, I don’t worry about him. It’s you I worry about- you’ve heard before that you seem disengaged at times from your son and your life in favor of other pursuits (like this blog, for instance), so hearing that you’re going to run off for 6 weeks is concerning. I hope you can use the time away to come back and be more in the moment in the life you have, but it’s hard to see how that’s possible.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
I think it is easy to take Jenna out of context and pick apart her flaws, because she lays it all out on the table. She’s an honest blogger. There are a lot of bloggers who focus on the sunshine and happy moments, which I understand, but I think Jenna runs the risk of her readers reading all these perky, perfect, positive blogs, and coming to her blog and reading more candid things. It is easy to compare Jenna to the ‘picture perfect’ women on other blogs. Its important to keep perspective, though. If I wrote a candid blog like Jenna, I think there would be plenty of things people could criticise me for… and I suspect the same would be true of anyone… which is why I don’t criticise Jenna. And I know Jenna is aware of this and she puts it all out there by choice, but it is our choice how we respond.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Sounds like postpartum depression, to be completely honest.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
I’ve asked about this in a few other posts and my comments have either been ignored or not posted. Choosing to leave your child, coupled with the interactions she posts between her and T1 screams PPD to anyone who has been around someone who suffered from it.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
That’s an uneducated troll comment. Below are the symptoms of postpartum depression. None of these come through in Jenna’s blog:
Agitation or irritability
Changes in appetite
Feelings of worthlessness or guilt
Feeling withdrawn or unconnected
Lack of pleasure or interest in most or all activities
Loss of concentration
Loss of energy
Problems doing tasks at home or work
Negative feelings toward the baby
Significant anxiety
Thoughts of death or suicide
Trouble sleeping
A mother with postpartum depression may also:
Be unable to care for herself or her baby
Be afraid to be alone with her baby
Have negative feelings toward the baby or even think about harming the baby (Although these feelings are scary, they are almost never acted on. Still you should tell your doctor about them right away.)
Worry intensely about the baby, or have little interest in the baby
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
Um, yeah, I get a lot of those from reading her posts.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Youre diagnosing PPD based on reading about snippets of someones life on the internet? Perhaps Jenna does have PPD. Perhaps she is just experiencing normal motherhood. She should probably leave that up to a medical professional.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
I was just asking b/c from her posts she seems to fit the bill. I would hope has had a PPD screening already. It’s standard after you have a baby most places.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Jenna, please leave this comment up because it proves josie is only interested in being a troll and knows little to nothing about PP depression.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
This comment placement makes it look like I was responding to a different comment than I was. FWIW, Josie, I don’t wholly disagree with all of your posts, but the last couple throwing around PPD (like it’s an insult, too?) with no evidence really bother me.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Notice I didn’t say OMG JENNA HAS PPD. I said it sounds that way to me. I’m not a doctor, and more importantly I am not HER doctor.
But I too get a lot of those things from what she posts. She chooses what we see by selectively writing about this or that, so I am only going off of what I’ve read.
you obviously have a different interpretation. That’s fine. Opinions make the world go round.
I hardly think Jenna is going to make any decisions based on what you or I believe.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
I was not throwing it around as an insult. PPD is a serious medical condition and my heart breaks for anyone who has to deal with it. Having a kid is tough enough (I know I have 2) normally! To me, Jenna just seems to unattached and distant.
Reply
Jenna Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
If I really was suffering from PPD, possibly with thoughts of harming myself I’m actually a bit appalled that you think this is the way to approach me about it. I would suggest, that if you truly suspect this about someone in the future, you try a discreet, kind email, with resources the woman can reach out to in order to find help.
PPD is serious and should be treated as such.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
That’s completely fair.
Point taken.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:53 pm
No, it pretty much sounded like an insult. And I take offense that you are throwing around accusations of her having PPD simply because she doesn’t write that her life with a child is *Awesome* every day! I take offense because after a long hard pregnancy involving hospitalizations, birth complications, and an induction for high blood pressure, I came home and cried every day, multiple times a day, for six weeks until my appointment with my midwife when I was put on medication for my PPD. I had a panic attack the first day home alone with my child. I felt horrible. I couldn’t sleep well and was on edge with my spouse and my newborn. I had no energy, and instead of happy first months with my baby I remember them as some of the most emotionally trying and difficult times of my life thus far. PPD is not something to say someone “Screams it” as if it is a derogatory condition, something to be looked down on for having as if they actively chose that….how rude, both to Jenna, and people like me who have experienced it.
You obviously don’t know anything about what you are writing, and Jenna is right, if you honestly did think she needed to see a medical professional due to PPD the way to handle that is most definitely NOT by trolling her blog and telling her that her posts and info she chooses to share about her relationship with her child “Screams PPD”.
And for the record, I have done school with a child. I was writing my masters thesis and caring for my newborn while finishing up school and dealing with my PPD. Let me be the first to say it is HARD but it is even harder when you have to be mom with *everything* that title entails (emotional, physical, mental exertion) and write papers, edit your work, research concepts, attend classes, etc. Many a night I was up late going between a nursery and a computer, juggling both responsibilities. I am happy to say that I finished my degree, I now work from home with a well-paying job, and my daughter and I have a wonderful relationship, but I still have hard days, like all parents do. My family helped me out when I asked for help and no one should try and shame Jenna for spending a matter of weeks away from her child to finish her education. ESPECIALLY when her child will still be with one of his parents and a large network of supportive extended family members. I hope you see how thoughtless, rude, and offensive your comment is. But judging from the fact that you wrote it in the first place I am guessing you don’t. So let me say it again, in case you missed it: your comment is misguided, rude, and unhelpful. Shame on you.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:04 am
I am applauding you from my living room in sunny Australia!
Reply
Mandy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Thank you for this! Your candidness is awesome
And I also loved the last two sentences!
Reply
tara Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:19 am
I didn’t see her “throwing it as an insult” at all. merely a suggestion and reasoning for suggesting it. if you think she is being insulting, then i THINK you are being defensive about something that you are already interpreting wrongly. To Kristen, your long tirade was just as rude and unhelpful. She wasn’t saying “oh, Jenna has ppd, that sucks for her! she said she hopes she gets help if she does. Get a life. Somebody putting a comment in contrast to what Jenna or commenters are saying is no more a troll than you are- you are behind a name with no link, whining at other people for stating their opinion.
Reply
Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:26 am
What she was doing was trying to dress up hate with fake “concern”
Reply
tara Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:57 am
really? you honestly believe that somebody who reads this blog really truley HATES Jenna? Even I, who don’t agree with a lot she writes lately, don’t HATE her. That’s ridiculous.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Yes, I actually I do believe it. There are sick people out there (or just angry people) who attach way too much feeling to a blog.
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:40 am
I don’t have a link behind my name for a reason. The only blog that I have is open to family members only, you need to sign in to read it. That is because there are pictures of me, my husband, my daughter, her full name, etc. on there so my relatives who live all over the US can keep in contact and see videos and pictures when they want of what is going on with us. I don’t feel comfortable sharing that with the entire world wide web, I could leave a link though…it would just be to a page that says “Would you like to sign in?”
As for my comment being rude, you are entitled to feel that way. Regardless, I said it in my “tirade” and I will mention it again, if you honestly think someone is struggling with a mental health issue, pointing it out in a public forum such as a comment in a blog with high traffic, is no different than being at a well attended party where someone blurts out “your actions scream PPD you know” during the middle of a conversation about something else entirely different. Think for a moment, does that sound like a good approach? How do you think the person who potentially has depression would feel, especially if one of the biggest symptoms is guilt and feelings of isolation? Bottom line I agree with what Meg wrote, she is dressing up her hate with fake concern and I saw right through it. I have been a reader on this site for years, I knew Jenna when she was at BYU, and SHE knows that I am not trolling, and that is what matters most to me.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 8:38 pm
I agree that there is prevalent sexism about this kind of issue, but I can’t see Sophia’s other argument that the reasons for leaving her child don’t matter. It would follow that someone leaving their child to go party for six weeks because they feel they need a break is the same as someone leaving for work because either way the child is without a parent. It’s essential that why they are leaving is important- important enough to trump the consequences of leaving. I believe Jenna’s reason does trump, and I am so supportive of Jenna’s decision to finish her degree. It is complacency to believe that one will never need a degree just because you’re a SAHM.
Jenna, when a commenter in your previous post praised you for making the more difficult choice you said that this path was actually the easier path. The tuition, the time away, the studying, the writing- how could this be easier then not finishing? Congrats to you for taking advantage of circumstances of timing that make this possible- I think it’s a great decision! I just wish you truly felt the same because in the past you were so defensive. Personal growth, being an example to your children, and insurance against a dire financial situation in case of tragedy are all good reasons! (and many jobs value a critical thinking degree such as English so I don’t agree it’s a ‘useless’ degree) I don’t think people that questioned your past attitude towards finishing were haters, I think for the most part they are readers and fans that want the best for you and yours.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 9:02 pm
This entire comment thread reminds me of Occupy Wall Street. What exactly are the protestors on here upset about?
Sometimes, when it comes to the way I parent I think:
1. Will this royally screw up my kids?
2. Will they even remember this?
I’m betting that Jenna being gone for 6 weeks will not put her son in a mental institution or make him some crazed maniac.
I’m also sure that when her son is 20something he wont be telling her, “I remember that time when I was 2 and you left me for 6 weeks and that really hurt my feelings.”
Reply
Christiana Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:33 am
Hey Meg,
Since you’re unsure about the intent and purpose and why people are upset regarding the Occupy Wall Street Movement, I’d encourage you to read this perspective - it’s from someone who is included in the 1% figure. You may find it enlightening.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/21/1028500/-A-Voice-From-the-1
Reply
Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 7:11 am
I’m aware of the intent and purpose of Occupy Wall Street.
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
Then why did you allude to not knowing what the protestors are upset about? If you’re aware of their intent and purpose, wouldn’t you also know what they’re upset about? Or did you just feel like being snarky about the negative posts here?
Christiana, thanks for the info. It was useful to me, even though Meg already knew all about it.
Reply
Christiana Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Thanks Shanna!, I’m glad you found the link useful!I only posted it because she said she didn’t know what the protesters were upset about…
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 9:03 pm
Are you running away from the stress and responsibility of your son and the help he needs? It’s definitely easier to go back to school for “me time” than to face the fear and work that he might require.
Reply
Meg Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Do you have children? If so, I can’t believe you are looking down on someone who needs “me time” when things do get a little tough. Are mothers supposed to tough it out when things get a little too hard? Sometimes. But sometimes breaks are needed and when they are taken with the best intentions, we mothers come back at it refreshed and ready to give our children what they really need: A sound mind, strong body, strong heart.
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
There’s a difference between taking me time as a weekend aay and 6 weeks away.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
You have some really specific expectations that you wish to impose on others. What is the problem if T1 wont be harmed in any way? And this is not a weekend away. This is a summer term with the purpose of graduating. Lets keep this in perspective.
Reply
Alison Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
I do have a daughter, Meg, thank you for asking. Do you also have children?
Breaks are always needed, “me time” is required for sanity, refreshment is necessary - but sometimes my daughter needs me more. I’m not posing as a martyr, I just simply asked a question - is this an escape?
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
This 6 week term is a year away. If she’s running away from a problem there are probably more timely options! And again, T1 will be with his father and grandparents. Lets not make this sound like Jenna is abandoning her child for a life of selfish luxury.
Reply
Cupcakes Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Did she not just have 10 days of me time in Europe?
Reply
josie Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:55 pm
And the women’s conference. She’s had more me time in 4 months than I have had in 4 years!
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Then perhaps the answers is for you to go get some MORE me time instead of requiring others to have less. Its not like its a finite resource you have to share. It is your choice if you don’t make enough me time to meet your needs, not Jenna’s problem!
Reply
Karin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
Josie — I’m going to be honest. When I read your comments all I can think is how unhappy you must be with whatever is going on in your own life. Perhaps you never finished school and regret that you didn’t, perhaps you past up opportunities and regret it, or perhaps you just feel the need to put down other people in order to make yourself feel better about the decisions you’ve made in your own life.
Look, we get the point — you wouldn’t do what Jenna AND her husband have decided to do. Fine. No one will make you. I promise. But seriously, just because she is making a decision that is different then the one you would make does not make her a terrible mother, does not mean she has PPD, and does not mean all the horrible things you think it means.
Reply
Jessy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Exactly what I was thinking
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
Why is it for any of us to decide/permit Jenna’s ‘me time’? Why cant mothers just support each other instead of raise a disapproving eyebrow and judging?
Reply
MrsW Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
This is a silly question. Are you the mommy-me-time police, now? I respect your privilege to be here and ask questions (though I really wonder why ya’ll try because I have been reading the site I believe you’ve come from long enough to realize those there think Jenna’s unchangeable) but this “retort” is absurd. Think it through and try again later.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
I love how Josie and cupcakes are simultaneously cruelly scrutinising Jenna’s decision and judging the crap out of her, and expressing their ‘concern’ about PPD. Nobody is fooled by your cruelty. Your words are as palatable as a poop covered in chocolate.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:23 am
mmmmm….poop covered chocolate… er, chocolate-covered poop…..
Seriously, Hailey, I just snorted my breakfast milk. You’re awesome!
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Why does having children or not having children have any bearing on this conversation? Are all women who haven’t popped one out excluded from participating in this discussion? If so, that should be posted somewhere ’cause I sure didn’t get the memo.
In addition, not having reproduced doesn’t keep someone from having a good idea of what parenting is like. I still have a brain even though I don’t have kids, so thanks for dissing the OP for her potential childlessness. I can see how that would TOTALLY invalidate her opinion. Oh wait, she just asked a question. Oops!
Reply
Danielle Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:52 am
Since when is going to school “me time”?
Learning, working, and earning a degree that will radically improve one’s ability to find employment if/when that employment is desired hardly sounds like any of the things one would normally list under “me time” activities.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:55 am
No kidding. If getting my PhD is me-time, I want a re-do.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 9:11 pm
I don’t have an opinion about whether it’s right or not, every parent makes whatever choices they think are best at the time. But what caused me to question the decision was how impossible it would be for me to make it. I can’t imagine leaving my babies for six weeks. I once left for four days and called a hundred times. It was a good trip for me, good for me to finally get some me-time, and I would do four days again. I don’t think I could ever chose six weeks myself, I’d be so sad at how much I was missing at this incredible stage.
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:06 am
Molly - I think your feelings are completely normal, and that most parents feel this way, which is why people are so surprised that Jenna doesn’t feel this way. I admit that there are a few comments on here that aren’t respectful or polite, but the fact remains that Jenna’s blog has become a forum for discussion. Not everyone who disagrees with Jenna is a hater or a troll. Sophia’s comment was clearly re-posted so that people would read it and comment on it. Obviously no one but Jenna and TH make decisions for them, and I don’t think expressing a thought that doesn’t align with Jenna’s beliefs or decisions is a bad thing.
Reply
Molly P Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:27 am
I was so happy to read this reply! I certainly didn’t want to offend anyone with my comment. I like reading this blog because it gives such a different perspective from mine. I’m genuinely interested in how and why parents make different decisions (sometimes it inspires me to do things differently!) It’s great when a post can foster discussion, although it is too bad that it can’t be a more civil one. This chain of comments is upsetting on all fronts- there is just so much anger. And I have to admit I don’t really understand the reaction to “judging.” Any opinion is judging- agreeing is a judgment that she she is making the “right” choice, and disagreeing “wrong.” I like that the internet provides a forum for debate.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Molly- I think there is a difference between expressing, as you have “I can’t imagine leaving my babies for 6 weeks” and taking it one step further, as others have, and saying “therefore, you must not be attached to your child”. To me, the former is a natural thing to muse about and add to the discussion. The latter- when it jumps to “I couldn’t do it because I’m attached to my kid, so if you CAN then you’re NOT attached to your kid” is where it just kind of breaks down into personal value based judgments that are then unfairly applied to other people.
There are a lot of things that people do that I could never do/don’t want to do, but that doesn’t mean that they are bad parents, people, workers, etc.
Reply
Molly P Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:28 am
Yes, yes, I think that’s true, I completely agree!
Reply
Rebecca Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:32 am
I agree as well, that was pretty much exactly my point
. I also echo Molly’s comment on the definition of “judging”. It does seem like that sometimes on this blog, opinions of dissent are brushed off as “hating” too quickly, without giving any credence to the validity of their points.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 10:16 pm
Well, this is something you don’t see everyday Jenna! People berating you for your “untraditional” choice.
Makes me miss the good ‘ol days when you were just an antiquated, backwards, Mormon-mommy brainwashed, anti-feminist!
Reply
Rachel Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:25 am
Hahaha. This cracked me up.
Reply
phruphru Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
me too
Reply
Hannah Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:49 am
LOVE this!!
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 10:24 pm
OMG. The SAHM/blogger community can be really catty and snarky can’t it? This reminds me of how up-in-arms the little-miss-perfects were when OMGMom said she fed her daughter Lean Cuisine. Why does anyone think they have the right to judge anyone else for how they live their lives or raise their kids? What really ticks me off is when these are people who would argue in favor of legalizing gay marriage, or stick up for reproductive rights, but would judge you for going back to school and not staying home all day every day with your child. I’m pretty irritated for you.
I am not a parent. But I can tell you that my sister takes many, many business trips and is often away from her young children. With her oldest she had to stop breast feeding at seven months because of a lengthy business trip. One of my coworkers has gone to the Philippines three times in the past 18 months, for four weeks at a time. She has a 3 and 2 year old. My dad had a business trip to Germany for 2 months one time. People gotta do what they gotta do and making a decision to go back to school and finish your degree doesn’t mean you’re a bad mother. Actually it probably means you’re a really good one because of the example you’re setting.
People suck and they’re jealous of your life. That’s pretty much it.
Reply
Alisha @ Wee Foodie Fashionista Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
Sorry, I got kind of off topic, but I meant to say in that first paragraph that no matter what the topic, people need to stop judging someone’s personal decisions. Whether it’s who they marry or how they raise their kids or what they do with their body, etc.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 10:36 pm
Congratulations about your decision to finish your degree. That’s a huge thing. I certainly don’t want to add to the fire of the discussion going on here, but I thought I might offer an alternate idea to your plan, if you are still thinking about how it might work. Going to school full time with your family around is tough, but I don’t think impossible. I’m at BYU right now and there are ALOT of women doing just that, and doing it successfully. You are a strong person, and you could definitely do it too. BYU family housing doesn’t have you sign any contract and is extremely inexpensive. They even let you rent furniture (for very very cheap). Maybe the whole family could spend the 6 weeks in Provo, and then TH could go to Washington to work for the rest of the summer if you want. I’m certain you could do the whole 6 weeks for less than a month of living in Chicago. And it would be fun! Just a thought. Regardless, good luck with everything!
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 10:42 pm
Jenna invites opinions and comments (she has admitted to being addicted to reading comments) She also puts her entire life on-line. All comments, negative, postive, ignorant, helpful, etc. are part of this beast called the internet. If she didn’t want people to write what they think, she could quit writing. People are people.
Reply
Karin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
You are correct, people are people. But that in no way excuses the hurtful and negative behavior a select few have demonstrated. As adults, we should also understand the difference between respectfully disagreeing with someone and engaging in personal attacks. The former is fine and appropriate, the later is what has led to a society filled with hate, bullying and abuse.
Reply
October 26th, 2011 on 10:46 pm
I am really surprised how strongly people have reacted to this issue!
Jenna, I only know what I see on your blog. To me that means that I don’t see the full scope of your life and therefore have no room to judge you.
I personally think it’s great that you will be finishing your degree next summer. That is a gift to your son. He will grow up knowing what a strong person you are and how you have done things to better yourself (and his life) through education.
My mom was away from me for 8 weeks when I a year old because of her job. During that time I was cared for by my dad, grandmother, aunts and uncles. Thought I would let you know that I am not scared and am a well adjusted adult. (:
Oh and I am offended by the commenter who said that an english degree is useless! I have liberal arts degrees and I have built a successful career in biomedical research. A lot of
People put liberal arts degrees to good use!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 12:20 am
Wow! Crazy responses. I admit I didn’t read through all of them. I just wanted to say good for you! It will be hard but if it’s worth it to you, it’s worth it.
I finished my BS in Sociology/Anthropology (yeah, I probably won’t be using THAT anytime soon) while I was 9 months pregnant. I was all set to finish finals the week before I was due and oops, I went into labor a week early. I had to beg my professors to let me take my exams in the hospital (after 20 hours of hard labor and an emergency c-section). I was determined to do it then because I was afraid I’d never finish after he was born. Now he’s 2 1/2 and I have a 15 month old as well and my little family is moving yet again across the country so my husband and I can both go back for our Masters degrees. It’s terrifying and exciting and fulfilling. It’s worth it to us, so it’s worth it. Period. Our kids won’t be traumatized. I might be traumatized living in Chicago though, yikes.
You’re so close and 6 weeks is nothing. NOTHING. T1 will not be traumatized, you won’t be traumatized. It will be hard to be away from your husband and child and it will be hard work to finish your classes but some things are hard. I think it’s awesome.
Reply
Jackie Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Exams in the hospital? Go you! I have to admit that I am kind of terrified of defending m thesis while pregnant. I was really excited when I was 9 months out from my defense date thinking I wouldn’t have to worry about finishing before labor. But now that I might have to push my defense back I’m worried again! (Not that we’re actively trying for kids - its just you know always a possibility when you are having the sex
)
Reply
Rachel Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
You can do it! Don’t worry about it. The worst thing that could happen is probably your hormones making you cry or laugh at inappropriate times. Or you pee your pants. See nothing dire!
My stuff wasn’t as hardcore as it seems, I swear! Everyone kept telling me if I didn’t finish right then, I wouldn’t be able to finish until the kids were out of the house and then I’d never go back. That’s stupid. It’s completely ridiculous to me now but at the time I was terrified of wasting all that money and not getting a degree out of it.
I was lucky, I only had 3 classes. 1 of my professors wrote off my final because I had already demonstrated enough knowledge of the subject matter, that professor was awesome and kept encouraging me all semester. The other let me do take home versions after he had my classmates take a vote. I will never forget his irritation at having to give me special treatment. Haha, he was very hard on me that semester because he didn’t think pregnant women have a place in education. Nice. I did the tests at the hospital because the baby slept a lot and I was wide awake and terrified to sleep.
I’m glad I finished when I did because motherhood was a shock for me. One of my best memories of both school and becoming a mother is walking in graduation 2 weeks after my son was born. I was completely engorged (we had breast feeding issues that turned out to be MSPI) and I was terrified I was going to start leaking everywhere so I kept trying to discretely look at my chest. The poor guy sitting next to me kept asking if I was going to be sick. I almost didn’t hear my name called because I was scanning the crowd to see if the baby was ok because he had refused to eat before we left 4 hours before and I had been told if he didn’t eat every 1 1/2 - 2 hours than he would starve. I had a notebook that I recorded every feeding attempt and every pee or poo and the color and consistency and I was concerned my husband wouldn’t write everything down. Like I said, motherhood was a shock for me!
Looking back I would have been fine to finish after I had my son. I’m going back now because I enjoy school and I want to show my kids that it’s important to both of their parents to get a higher degree. I don’t know if I’ll use it right away but that isn’t the point. I am all for sacrificing for my children but education isn’t something I need to sacrifice and it’s something that makes me happy.
I know the big deal for everyone is that Jenna is going to be gone for 6 weeks possibly without seeing T1 and TH. 6 weeks is a month and a half. It’s really nothing. I would have a HARD time with that decision if I were in Jenna’s position. But I would do it. I’m ok with leaving my 2 1/2 year old and 15 month old in the care of my husband and/or my (or his)family for 6 weeks to finish my education. I’d do it for other reasons too. I don’t think it’s horrible or even weird. I think it’s great. Besides, my kids already Skype with their grandparents. Technology is a wonderful thing sometimes.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 1:13 am
Goodness me! I clicked over to see if there were any more comments and there is so much DRAMA!
Jenna, hang in there, this will all wash over and people will move on (I guess people being rude instead of politely disagreeing is a hazard of blogging).
And I completely agree with Meg - will this have a lasting effect on T1? no. Will he even remember? No.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 1:13 am
I just wanted to add in some love and support! I think you are brave and so strong to go back to school. I can only imagine it was a hard choice to leave T1 for an extended time but one that will be so worth it when you have your degree.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 7:31 am
Jenna,
When I read your post a few days ago, I didn’t think anything but “good for her!”. I have a BA in Psychology but went on to grad school in social work. After 1 year of a 2 year program, I decided I didn’t really want to be a social worker and ended up not returning to finish my degree. Despite the fact that I have no interest in that career field, I still have pangs of regret regarding putting in a lot of time and money and having nothing to show for it. I imagine you occasionally feel the same way about your BYU experience.
On a resume, I simply list my BA. It doesn’t qualify me for anything other than fairly generic jobs that simply require a college degree. But boy, am I glad to have that BA. It does open doors, albeit only a few. I’m not even working right now but I’d never argue that my degree wasn’t worthwhile. I understand the personal pride that you will have once you finish the degree that you started. I imagine that the time you spend in Provo will be very difficult as you’ll be working hard to do a lot in a short amount of time and missing your family. This will probably not be a picnic for anyone but it sounds as though you’ve worked out a solution that will suit your family well. Congratulations.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 7:32 am
“she’s been a stay-at-home mom since T1 was born”
A WHOLE 18 months??!?!? Wow!!! That’s amazing, I don’t know HOW she lasted so long without a 6 week break from parenthood!
And what exactly makes you think that a business man or a soldier gone for long periods aren’t damaging to their children??? I”m pretty sure nobody said that. My husband’s father was gone a lot, both in the military and otherwise, and he still talks about how he was never at his sporting events, never knew what was happening with him, and they aren’t that close today.
The fact that Jenna would rather be away from her son for 6 weeks (living free, without obligation other than summer school-and something is telling me she won’t be so absent from the online/blogging world. If spending 11 hours a day on the computer WITH a baby is a priority, I would love to see her cut back without one.) instead of dropping some of her internet time to take online courses is what people are pointing out. It’s called LAZINESS. And you don’t get to do it with a child. That’s the point.
In the Proclamation to the Family, published by the LDS church, we are instructed that mothers are to be the caregivers, the nurturers, and fathers are to provide for the family. No church leader would condone a mother leaving her baby for 6 weeks to finish a degree (one that she even before said was useless to her) over staying with her child. That is absurd. If Jenna has some comment to that, I’d love to hear it. And I’m no ‘internet troll”, I’m not anonnymous. I’d love for her or anybody to respond to me. The amount of butt-kissers that read this blog astonish me.
Though I do agree, it actually probably will be good for T1 to be with his grandparents. My guess is he’ll start talking.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:00 am
Tara, I’m assuming that you’re LDS by the way you say ‘we’ about the ‘The Family: A Proclamation to the World’.
I personally think you’re missing the point of the proclamation on the family. You cite the caregivers, nurturers line, but skip right over what comes immediately after: “Disability, death, or OTHER circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.” (emphasis mine)
The point I’m trying to make here is that we each personally interpret the doctrines of the church as they are presented to us. You’ve interpreted the proclamation on the family in your way, I’ve interpreted it in my way, and Jenna has interpreted it in her way. I think each of us is probably imperfect in our interpretation, but I hope that we all do it with the guidance of the spirit.
It smacks of pretty serious self-righteousness and judgment for you to assume that no church leader would condone Jenna’s choice. In fact, women have consistently been encouraged to seek further education. I cite President Hinckley’s October 2003 General Conference address.
I disagree with a lot of Jenna’s choices, but the point is that they’re her choices. I don’t judge you for the decisions you make, I’d ask you to refrain from judging me or others for theirs. I cite here Elder Oaks’ March 1998 devotional at BYU: “to be righteous, an intermediate judgment must be within our stewardship. We should not presume to exercise and act upon judgments that are outside our personal responsibilities.”
Also, yeah, you totally are anonymous.
Reply
tara Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:37 am
Yes, I am LDS, and no, I am not missing the point. If anybody has some church leader (Bishop, Stake Pres, Prophet) who would advise a mother of a 1 year old (with speech and cognitive delays) to leave him for 6 weeks to finish a degree she dropped years ago, I’d love to meet him. It just wouldn’t happen. I agree that a mother should be educated or otherwise trained to be able to provide for her family in case of emergency, husband’s death or joblessness, etc. But Jenna has training in a skill- photography… blogging…whatever other hobbies she has turned into money-makers. I could see returning to school when T1 and others are in school during the day (that’s what I plan to do for my masters), but right now? When everyone knows he needs attention to grow/advance? Why can’t her child and husband come with her? He surely could get a job in Provo. And if they have the money to travel and eat at luxury (by ANY standards) restaurants, surely they could even go without making money for 6 weeks and living on the stipend they already get- Provo is way way cheaper than Chicago.
This move is not one of those life altering instances where family should be given the responsibility of child rearing. There is no way that is the case. This degree isn’t even in something that would afford Jenna a career should the need immediately arise.
I’m not sure what “it smacks of… judgement for me to blah blah blah” means, but then again, I’m no english major. I could pull up dozens of quotes from prophets, apostles, and otherwise, on how motherhood should not be pushed aside for mother’s education (in fact, parenthood at all shouldn’t), would you like me to list all of those quotes? In following that, it seems that Jenna’s husband should be his primary caregiver- but heaven forbid he actually do that! And that the family should not be torn apart for laziness. (Strong word, I know) If Jenna is willing to give up her baby for 6 weeks, why can’t she be willing to put in a few hours online everyday to finish the classes?
And I’m not totally anonymous. My email is tara12901@yahoo.com, I don’t have a blog to link to, but I’d love for you to send me anything you’d like. We are both in the midwest, maybe we could meet for lunch?
Reply
Danielle Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Dude. It’s none of the church leaders business what decisions a family or individual makes about something like this. Anyone who says anything other than “pray about it, discuss it as a family, and come to a decision,” is out of line. Much like yourself.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Agreed! I know that is what they would say because I have asked the question before to my local leaders about going back for my PhD! It is much like the personal matters that families decide on, they are counseled to pray about it and come to a decision that is best for their situation and family. My answer is something along the lines of “not now…but at some point” and I am okay with that, the Lord knows my family, as he does Jenna’s, and I am sure that He will guide and direct them to the decision that is best for them.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Danielle - that’s kind of what I would really like to say. It’s no one’s business the people involved - Jenna, TH, and That Grandma and That Grandpa.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Danielle - my thoughts exactly.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Wait, wait, wait…Tara. Spouting off quotes from apostles and prophets would also mean that you would have had a chance to read the quotes, from President Hinckley for example,
“Relief Society stands for education. It is the obligation of every woman of this Church to get all the education she can. It will enlarge her life and increase her opportunities. It will provide her with marketable skills in case she needs them.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, In the Arms of His Love, General Relief Society Meeting, 176th Semiannual General Conference, October 2006).
He stated that the Church needs educated women. Brigham Young also, get ready for this one, had women leave their families for a a season to go back east and attend school to become proficient in the very area of study your husband is in. He stated ““You educate a man; you educate a man. You educate a woman; you educate a generation.” Please don’t guilt Jenna for wanting to finish her degree, prophets have talked of the importance of doing so, and to tell her she is not following the principles of the proclamation to the world is not helping anyone.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Kristin, can we please be best friends? I never even knew about Brigham Young. That is awesome!!
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am
Tara, I know you’ve said you’d rather communicate by email, but I’m going to respond here anyway. I’d like to respond to a couple of points in your response to my comment.
First, as to leaders who would condone leaving your family for several weeks to pursue education, I’d like to put forth my father as an example. He has served as a bishop, a branch president, a member of a stake presidency, and is serving again as a counselor in the bishopric of his current ward. He encouraged my mother to go away for several weeks at a time when my sisters were very young. She wanted to maintain her teaching certificate - even though she wasn’t using it. My mom still hasn’t ever used her degree, as a matter of fact. She went to China, Egypt, and Mexico to take classes toward her certification. She left my sisters in the care of my family’s maid (they lived in South America at the time, so it was not unusual for them to have a maid) while my dad worked. My parents also cared for their grandchildren while my sister-in-law took a painting class. Her children were also very small at the time.
I suppose you could argue that my dad has misinterpreted the proclamation. I personally don’t think that he has. I believe that my family’s decisions were made with prayer and spiritual guidance, just like I think you made your educational decisions with prayer and the guidance of the spirit, and just like I think Jenna has made this same decision with prayer and spiritual guidance. As Danielle said, it really ends up being no one’s business but the people directly involved in the decision.
I want to clarify what I mean by “It smacks of pretty serious self-righteousness and judgment for you to assume that no church leader would condone Jenna’s choice.” I mean that you are being self-righteous and judgmental. As Elder Oaks said, we are entitled to make judgments about those situations over which we have stewardship. It’s not your place to judge Jenna’s decision. It’s not my place to judge your decisions. It’s not Jenna’s place to judge my decisions or your decisions.
In the end, I think that a lot of us in the church spend an inordinate amount of time judging each other for highly personal decisions. I have been very guilty of this myself, but it’s something I really desire to change. Having been judged harshly for my decisions (and some circumstances that are beyond my control), I recognize that it’s better for me to say, “You know what, I don’t agree with the way you’re doing that, but I probably don’t have all of the information that you do.”
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:32 am
So true. The Gospel teaches us principles which we must search, ponder and pray to interpret. It is possible to see countless variations on life choices that all fit within the realm of righteousness. If someone feels more comfortable being spoonfed with an exhaustive list of rules for everyone to follow so we all do everything the right way, they should build a time machine and head back to law-of-Moses times.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:35 am
Hailey, please NEVER make us live like those times. I deal with enough bureaucracy in my life….
Reply
tara Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:45 am
i agree with the post above this one, about getting an education. i very much believe sisters in the church should gain as much education as possible. And yes, I do know about Brigham Young sending the woman east to become a doctor. That was also a really, really long time ago. I follow the prophet today as far as what I am to do. We are taught to do that. Otherwise I’d have 5 sister wives. And to Hailey below, thanks for the advice, I’ll remember to not follow everything the bretheren say so literally, you’ve sure saved me a ton of trouble! And I hope it works out well for you too! Anyways, sisters, it’s been nice, I’ve got to clean up while the kiddo is down for a nap. Until next time!
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
I think what it really comes down to is this: judging Jenna for finishing her education. Judging her for not following the same ideals you have made important for you. We can’t all be held to the same standard in terms of personal application of flexible gospel concepts such as when it is appropriate for an individual to finish their education. To say it is wrong for Jenna to do so now would be shaming all of the female professors that completed their post-graduate work with children in the home. It would be a slap in the face to the women who have balanced educating others and their own children.
Having taught at BYU, and having spoken to many female faculty concerning this very argument of the Proclamation to the World, I know that these women are offended that their ability to receive personal revelation for their specific and individual situation is swept under the rug by other female members of the church pointing out their “wrongdoing” for not being in the home 100% of the time. Essentially the same thing is happening in this comment thread. Jenna’s ability to pray, receive personal revelation, and jointly decide on an issue with the help of TH and God are being tossed aside. In Jenna’s case, as with the female faculty at BYU, it is never our place as sisters with a common faith to pick apart personal family decisions. It is divisive and not helpful in the least.
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 5:14 am
Amen.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Haha wait, where did I say don’t follow the brethren literally? That beam in your eye must be obscuring your view of the screen. Maybe we’re listening to different prophets because the ones I know teach ideals, not detailed road maps of exactly how to live our lives… and seriously, lady, you can honestly come here lecture Jenna over ‘not’ following the gospel… which is totally WRONG! You don’t see the irony in that? And your final sentence - “it actually will probably be good for T1 to be with his grandparents. My guess is he’ll start talking.” I have one word - MALICE. I want to call you out on that. You are not a righteous, concerned woman. You are NASTY! You say no church leader would condone Jenna’s choice, how would you feel if I said no church leader would condone your behaviour? Pretty harsh and hurtful, and not anyone’s place to take words out of their mouths. if you think thats a Christian way to behave, if you think you are really on some kind of moral high ground, for pointing out another woman’s flaws, if you think the brethren would pat you on the back and thank you for tearing down another mother… then wow. You ought to be so ashamed of yourself.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:33 pm
She just added a new one to the list of people in the wrong besides mothers in a comment below…and yes, it does involve a new dimension of judging and belittling others…which I thought would be impossible at this point!
Reply
Hannah Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 8:54 am
And THIS is why there are so many former members of the church who do NOT want ANYTHING to do with the church anymore…self-righteous, know-it-all judgers. Thanks or the input.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:16 am
True, true, true! I just moved into a new town and my visiting teaching companion and two of the three sisters that I visit teach are less active because of sisters in past wards that have made thoughtless comments about them working, not being able to have children,and not being married (ie divorced) among other equally rude comments/nosy questions that fall under the “it isn’t your concern” category!
Reply
tara Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Neal A Maxwell (an apostle of the church) said this:
“Quickly forgotten by those who are offended is the fact that the Church is “for the perfecting of the saints” (Eph. 4:12); it is not a well-provisioned rest home for the already perfected.”
People who leave the LDS church because they are offended by the actions/thoughts/words of another member, are offended by a PERSON, not the church. As prophets have said, the gospel of Christ is perfect. The people in the church are not. Somebody who gets offended and leaves the church, that’s an unfortunate situation. But if they are chosing to abandon the gospel of Jesus Christ, which they proclaim to believe by joining the church, that seems ridiculous to leave the church for that. There are plenty of people in my ward who annoy me. That doesn’t mean I’m going to quit living the gospel and living the covenants I’ve made with my Heavenly Father and Christ because of it. I don’t go to the church of man. I go to Christ’s church.
“Regrettably, there are times when others’ motives are not entirely innocent. This may particularly cause pain and confusion when the offender’s actions seem to contradict the religion he or she espouses; yet even in these difficult situations we are not justified in nursing our anger or turning away from the Church. President Stephen L Richards, First Counselor to President David O. McKay, said, “Does one offense wipe out another? Does weakness in one, even one who has been given a testimony of the truth, justify transgression of the law or failure to listen to its precepts?” (“Encouragement for Repenters,” Improvement Era, June 1956, 398). Our testimonies must be based on Jesus Christ, not on imperfect and fallible individuals.” -Denise Turner, August ’98 Ensign.
That’s all I have to say about that.
Reply
tara Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
So, this is probably going to offend somebody, but I think the gist of what I said above is, if a person is so offended by some member of the church and quits following the covenants they have made with God/Christ, fulfilling their duties in the gospel, etc., then it seems to me they didn’t have a testimony of the gospel of Jesus Christ to begin with.
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:28 pm
Tara, I don’t disagree with the quotes you posted at all in fact neither I nor the previous commenter said anything regarding the church housing perfect members. I simply stated that harsh, judgmental comments, hurt others to the point where their heart is too heavy to make it through three hours of church. I don’t judge their actions, it isn’t my place. Only one other person knows their heart fully and truly, and that person is not me!
However, I do think it is wrong to once again….judge….someone else for why they are coming to church less-frequently or not at all. I suppose I am glad I am with these women for visiting teaching, because I am happy to get to know them, and their families, and be friends with them regardless of how often they are at church. Based on your comment concerning people who fell away from the church due to offenses never really having a testimony to begin with, I am glad these sisters are with me, and not you. I might recommend, since you are more willing to listen to current prophets (re: Brigham Young’s council concerning education being outdated) reading President Monson’s Biography. He has spent a great deal of his life searching out those who have left the church or become less-active because of the pain caused by hurtful and thoughtless comments. He has spent so much time serving members of our faith and others of different denominations…sounds like someone else too, Jesus. I might guess that both President Monson and Jesus would not look kindly on you having the attitude of offense=no testimony. Why not try and help them see the good in the gospel and the members of the ward instead of faulting them? What is constructive about pushing them away with the attitude of “well, you probably never even had enough testimony in the first place”? Most conference addresses, if not all of them that I have heard when general authorities are speaking to those who are less active their plea is the same, please come back. And here is another recent quote, from this general conference (less than a month old, enjoy!)
“As I have visited stake conferences and other meetings in recent years, I have carried President Thomas S. Monson’s call to rescue the less-active members of the Church. At one stake conference I told a story of a less-active member who returned to full activity after his bishop and other leaders visited him in his home, told him he was needed, and called him to serve in the ward. The man in the story not only accepted the call but also changed his life and habits and became fully active in the Church.
A friend of mine was in the congregation to which I told that story. His countenance visibly changed as the story was told. He sent me an e-mail the next day telling me that his emotional reaction to the story was because his father-in-law’s story of returning to activity in the Church was very similar to the one that I had told. He told me that as a result of a similar visit by a bishop and an invitation to serve in the Church, his father-in-law reevaluated his life and his testimony, made major changes in his life, and accepted the call. That reactivated man now has 88 descendants who are active members of the Church.
At a meeting a few days later, I told both stories. The next day I received another e-mail which began, “That’s my father’s story too.” That e-mail, from a stake president, told how his father was invited to serve in the Church even though he had not been active and had some habits that needed changing. He accepted the invitation and, in the process, repented, eventually served as a stake president and then a mission president, and laid the foundation for his posterity to be faithful members of the Church.
A few weeks later I told all three stories in another stake conference. After the meeting a man came to me and told me that that was not his father’s story. It was his story. He told me of the events that led him to repent and come back to full involvement in the Church. And so it went. As I carried the call to rescue the less active, I saw and heard story after story of people who responded to invitations to come back and change their lives. I heard story after story of redemption.” (http://lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/redemption?lang=eng&query=come+back)
Bottom line: Less judging, more inviting, and accepting the invitation to be an instrument in the hands of the Lord will always be a good idea.
Reply
Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:40 am
“HOW she lasted so long without a 6 week break from parenthood!” - I wasn’t aware that going to school was a break for anyone. Papers, reading assignments, group projects, meeting with professors. Saying school is a “break” is actually an insult to yourself (if you’ve gone to school) and to anyone else who dedicated themselves to higher education.
“My husband’s father was gone a lot, both in the military and otherwise, and he still talks about how he was never at his sporting events, never knew what was happening with him, and they aren’t that close today.” - Pretty sure during this 6 week period, little 2 year old T1 won’t be dribbling a ball down the basketball court wondering where his Mommy is. Also, to assume her 6 week educational leave will become a habit in the future, to where it may take time out of sports games or life in general, is a little much, don’t you think? Unless you have some kind of knowledge that we don’t, or even Jenna doesn’t know, about her entire life.
“something is telling me she won’t be so absent from the online/blogging world.”- None of us really know that.
“It’s called LAZINESS. And you don’t get to do it with a child. That’s the point.”- How is going to school being lazy? You seem to think she’s using school as an excuse to run away from her obligations but isn’t it an obligation of a mother to better herself for the sake of providing a better life for her children?
“No church leader would condone a mother leaving her baby for 6 weeks to finish a degree (one that she even before said was useless to her) over staying with her child.”- So now you have authority to speak on behalf of church leaders? Amazing, when did you get this ability?
And I’m no ‘internet troll”, I’m not anonymous. I’d love for her or anybody to respond to me.” - You are kind of anonymous. You’ve chosen the name Tara but really, what does that mean? You have no link to your personal email or if you have a blog you haven’t listed it. So you’re hiding behind this name. Also, I’m responding to you
“butt-kissers”- I’d like to consider myself someone who critically thinks and if in that process I agree with what Jenna has to say, then great. If I don’t, then I will say something.
Reply
Meg @ Moments Like This Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:43 am
*Ah just saw your email address.
Reply
tara Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Sorry, I don’t have a cute emoticon to send you back. Glad you finally read my comment enough to find my email, too bad you didn’t understand it still. I don’t really have time to piece by piece pull apart you response like you did to mine, my baby just sounded on the monitor, but you would like to email me, feel free. I’d love to keep this going during his afternoon nap.
I do have a degree, actually, and from BYU at that. I would love love LOVE to go back to school for my masters, but I am not willing to do that while I am a full time mom- I can’t wait till I can when my children are in school though, or when my husband is finished with med school and we can afford to add more student loans for me to do it online, though I don’t think that’s the best way to earn a master’s degree. Duh, it’s not easy, but I would love to be back in the classroom, learning and discussing with other students, gaining a new skill, being on campus in a learning atmosphere. But I’m giving that up right now for diapers and drool. And that’s where my priorities are. I don’t think that is belittling my degree.
I’m not really speaking on behalf of church leaders, but putting forth what they have said about issues like these? I don’t think you really get that though. So I guess you need a quote. Here’s just one of dozens I pulled up.
“I am impressed by countless mothers who have learned how important it is to focus on the things that can only be done in a particular season of life. If a child lives with parents for 18 or 19 years, that span is only one-fourth of a parent’s life. And the most formative time of all, the early years in a child’s life, represents less than one-tenth of a parent’s normal life. It is crucial to focus on our children for the short time we have them with us and to seek, with the help of the Lord, to teach them all we can before they leave our homes. This eternally important work falls to mothers and fathers as equal partners. I am grateful that today many fathers are more involved in the lives of their children. But I believe that the instincts and the intense nurturing involvement of mothers with their children will always be a major key to their well-being. In the words of the proclamation on the family, “Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children”
-Elder Russell M. Ballard
I obviously believe that Jenna should finish her degree. I do not agree that it has to be accomplished by her living alone in Provo while her child and husband are away from her, when that can be avoided, or when she could do it online.
I encourage her to get her degree. I only disagree on how she’s doing it at this point. But really, it doesn’t matter what I think, Jenna can do as she sees fit for her family, and it won’t hurt me and mine.
I can’t do these comments anymore, my baby is sitting next to me. So if you’d like to continue, feel free to email me. Or you know, whatever. This is really long.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:21 am
You really feel you stand on the moral high ground when you just criticized another woman for the decision she made for her own family? And you really think you’re offering new solutions Jenna didn’t consider herself? And you get to decide whether Jenna needs a degree or not? Get over yourself. Jenna is leaving her kid with his nearest and dearest family for 6 short weeks, and heaven forbid she might enjoy it.
Reply
Megan Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
I’m sorry you’re getting steamrolled by supporters jumping all over you. I agree with your comments for the most part and the fact that you can say them calmly and respectfully.
This kind of discussion is why so many of us enjoyed this blog in the first place.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Is there something ‘respectful’ about “no church leader would condone your choice” (out of line AND incorrect) or “it will probably actually be good for T1 to be with his grandparents. my guess is he’ll start talking!” that I’m missing?
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:10 am
Hahahaha you seem very familiar with the proclamation (enough so that you can decide how it ought to be applied in the lives of strangers), you also seem familiar enough with the brethren to know that they would ‘never’ condone Jenna making her own choices that won’t harm her children, and yet it seems like maybe you’ve neglected your study of the New Testament, in which Christ doesn’t mince His words about hypocrites, and is clear about how we ought to treat one another… and let me tell you, it is a far cry from how you have acted. How dare you judge a stranger, call her lazy, tell her she is disobeying her religion (she’s only guilty of defying the gospel according to Tara), speaking for the brethren, who in my opinion would disagree with you and generally teach us NOT to behave like you… should i go on? Ever heard the one about the mote and the beam? Be careful turning around, because there’s a huge freaking BEAM sticking out of your eye!
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:21 am
HAHAHA Loved that last sentence. Amen and Amen Hailey!
Reply
Senora H-B Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Sorry, Kristin, I’ve decided that Hailey and I are going to be best friends.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Ladies, you are awesome. Thanks for using your brains and your logic.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 7:58 am
Whoa! Saw your post yesterday about going back to school, and thought, “good for her.” Guess I should have read the comments because then I might have realized what a terrible mother you are *sarcasm*.
It never even crossed my mind that people would have an issue with this. Perhaps I’m just naive. I know I certainly won’t waste my time having a breakdown over someone else’s life decisions. People are crazy.
Lots of luck with your schooling, Jenna!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 9:09 am
People are nuts. You don’t need them to solve non-existent problems for you.
I think it’s awesome you’re going to finish your degree. It opens up a lot of options for you in the future, it makes the investment you’ve already given to school more worthwhile, and it’s a great example to set for your kids.
I’m sure it will be hard sometimes and you all will really miss each other. But that will be ok. It won’t last forever and hopefully all three of you will have lots of great experiences and fun to go along with the hard parts.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 9:59 am
My mom did the exact thing you’re doing, two or more summers in a row, when I was around 3 and 4. She went to Vermont to hammer out her master’s degree, and we lived in Michigan. My grandparents watched me and my brother when my dad was at work, and we loved it. Of course we missed Mom, but we thought it was really exciting because we got to talk to her on the PHONE :O and we would tape record messages to her and get tapes back in return! I bet with Skype, T1 will be even more excited to actually SEE you, something we didn’t get! (apparently most of the conversations involved me telling Mom how my yiayia let us eat oreos, hahaha) I still remember my mom’s graduation and how proud I was to see her in her robes
I didn’t know what a degree was, but I knew she was happy, and that made me SO happy
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 10:35 am
I have but two things to say:
1. I have an English degree and I have used it quite successfully to support my two daughters as a single parent (a role I did not choose).
2. I have fed those daughters Lean Cuisine. The Spaghetti and Meat Sauce was one of my girls’ favorites when they were young and the portions were just right.
Carry on, trolls … judge the hell out of each other. I’m sure the negative energy is enhancing your own little lives.
Reply
Hailey Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:50 am
This comment is so, so awesome!
Reply
Vintage_paige Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Haha agreed!
Reply
Kristin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am
HAHAHA This is funny. That last sentence is a gem!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 11:04 am
I am finding it amazing that while all of you supporters are screaming about not judging TW, you are judging all the people that disagree. Pot meet kettle. Apparently it is only okay to attack and judge people that they don’t like. It’s kind of funny how hypocritical it all is. And I’m sad to see that my earlier comment about this post causing unnecessary drama was right.
IMO, if TW wants to leave her family for 6 weeks to finish school, that isn’t any of my business and I’m not going to judge her. I think it is very sad that women feel the need to berate each other for not living up to their idea of a perfect wife/mother/business woman/etc. Can’t we all just get along
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Since my comment was in the post that sparked this discussion, I just wanted to say that I am not judging anyone that disagrees with her, and I hope it didn’t come off that way because I truly love civil discussions and differing opinions- it’s probably why I keep going back to school, to hash out issues with other people and think about things
And I agree with your second paragraph, completely, about how it’s sad that women feel the need to berate one another, especially when it comes to motherhood and expectations.
Reply
Melissa Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Hi Sophia,
No I actually don’t think you have come off that way at all. While I was horrified when I first read your comment about military families, I now agree with you since you have had the chance to clarify. I think you have handled yourself very well here. I just wish that some other posters had displayed the class you have.
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
I’m so glad I had the chance to clarify the military comparison, too!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 11:14 am
I guess my confusion with the issue (comments, not Jenna’s education, which I honestly have no strong feelings one way or the other) is why people who criticize Jenna (or bloggers in general) can’t possible know what is really going on, but those who post supportive comments supposedly do? I don’t think you can have it both ways. Either you lay your life out there and people can judge your actions, which means some comments will be positive and others negative, or no one can say anything at all about anything posted on the internet because we cannot possible have the full-story. I think it’s great that some people are praising Jenna, while others are voicing their disagreement with her actions. It makes for much more interesting reading. What drives me bonkers is that “positive” comments are viewed as genuine and negative comments are called hateful and trollish. None of us know the full picture, so it’s equally ridiculous to say that going away for 6 weeks is or isn’t going to mess up her son. The most we can do is offer our opinions. Even if these opinions do not support Jenna’s decisions, I see a big difference between “I think it’s best if a primary caregiver does not voluntarily spend weeks away from their child” and “OMG you are a piece of trash and the worst mother ever so you should go kill yourself.”
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:20 am
“The most we can do is offer our opinions. Even if these opinions do not support Jenna’s decisions, I see a big difference between “I think it’s best if a primary caregiver does not voluntarily spend weeks away from their child” and “OMG you are a piece of trash and the worst mother ever so you should go kill yourself.”” I agree. I have disagreed passionately in the past with Jenna on a number of issues, but it was still civil.
I also like your point about not having it both ways when it comes to positive/negative comments- I think that’s true.
Reply
Melissa Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
Well said Cristina.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 11:57 am
Jenna
Hello. I am a mother of 2 and a teacher who specializes in developmental and speech delays. I have no issue with you returning to school to finish your degree, in fact I think that’s a smart thing to do. My issue is that your child is struggling and the time between 18 months and 3, is apivotal time in addressing speech/language delays. In fact, it’s the MOST important time from an interventionists perspective. I truly hope your beautiful son will be able to partake in speech therapy (and possible OT) while with your parents. I can’t stress this enough and it concerns me because you stated the other day that you weren’t sure if you’d even go ahead with it. If there are breaks and starting and stopping of the speech/developmental therapy, than you lose up to 70% of the progress gained. I’d be happy to send along resources for you and am including my email on this reply. Please let me know if I can do anything.
Kate
Reply
Jenna Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Thanks Kate. He hasn’t started yet, but I think he won’t be in therapy that long. I certainly wasn’t expecting him to be in therapy until he was 3 years old! We would have been leaving Chicago anyway at that time, so the issue isn’t whether I’m with him, rather it’s whether we need to find someone to treat him for the few months that we will be transitioning from Chicago to Washington to Dallas.
Reply
Kate Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Hi Jenna
I didn’t mean to suggest he’d definitely be in speech therapy that long. It all depends on his progress and needs, of course. Just that it’s a pivotal time. Anyway, best of luck to you. He’s an adorable, adorable boy!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 12:24 pm
Ugh, threads like this are why you need to go back to school. Imagine if the time spent stressing over this went into learning something new. Congrats again on making a good decision. If people on the blog or formspring are giving you crap on this, why include them in your life? Those aren’t the type people you need. Ban them or whatever you can do and move on, giving time and attention to your supporters. Life is too short to deal with this ridiculousness.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 12:28 pm
I skipped over a lot of the comments, but here is my two cents. You learn a lot less in online courses. I take half my courses online and really there is no comparison. So leaving T1 to take classes in person will make you more educated than if you did them online, and I think educated mothers benefit to children.
Did you know the origins of a liberal arts degree were not to “make a lot of money and find a good job” but to make us educated citizens? “liberal” as in the latin “liber” which means “free” as someone who is free to vote. So it’s largely irrelevant if your degree will make you money, rather it is about becoming a well rounded educated free citizen and mom!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 2:14 pm
I read a few more comments. I just don’t understand why people are acting like Jenna is leaving her family for some infinite amount of time. It’s 6 weeks. Come on. T1 will have learned and grown a lot in 6 weeks, yes. But really? REALLY!? Come on. It’s 6 weeks, it’s not 6 months. It’s not that big of a deal. I’m not saying it won’t be hard on all of them. It will. I would question what I’m doing every day to be away from my babies for 6 weeks. But I’d remind myself it’s 6 weeks. My goodness. All this quoting church leaders and all this hoopla for 6 weeks?!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 5:12 pm
Dude. 6 weeks spent with my grandparents, surrounded by love? YES, PLEASE. What kid with loving, supportive grandparents would ever turn that down?
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 5:48 pm
Gosh, this hoopla is all a bit crazy! Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
My only wonder was whether you’d want to start writing instead of being a photographer once you had your degree.
I haven’t finished my degree. I dropped out. Maybe one day I will go back and finish, and funnily enough, my plan is to do it when I have kids. Take THAT, haters!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 6:30 pm
I am a child development professional with an advanced degree and background in research. I have attended conferences on the subject of separation from primary caregivers and the impact on children of this age. I am also a mother of a 16-month old. It is harmful, the research and evidence supports that. That’s why in many custody cases involving young children, professionals advise no more than 2-3 days away from either parent. It DOES have an impact on the bonding and the attachment because of the stage of the child’s brain development. Jenna is attending BYU in person because she wants to. What she wants comes first, before and after T1 was born. That’s her choice, whether we agree or disagree. But it’s not good for him to have such a long break in contact. It is different than other situations mentioned here because she is choosing this, when other options are available.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Advise no more than 2-3 days from either parent or both parents…because he WILL be with his father. As everyone keeps forgetting, the other person he’s biologically and lawfully belonging too - the OTHER person he’s known since his first breaths.
As well, research done on children going through custody situations are children dealing with a great deal of turmoil and physcial/emotional upheavel. T1 is not living in that turmoil and will likely view this trip to Grandma’s (with Daddy, don’t forget) as any other trip he’s taken…except he’ll be there a bit longer than normal.
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Yes. Good points. Can you link to specific studies? Also, as Katy pointed out, are there studies done in normal circumstances like business trips, etc and not custody battles? I have the feeling that those conditions would change outcomes by a LOT.
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 6:34 pm
I am a 62-year-old mother of 7 and grandmother of one amazing 3-year-old little boy who is absolutely the light of my life. There is no way I could be a full-time caregiver to him for 6 weeks. All of the comments about how much T1 will love spending 6 weeks with Grandma make me tired. You are very lucky that your mother is able and willing to take on such a huge responsibility.
Reply
Kyra Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Not every 62 year old is the same. My grandmother raised me from the time I was 6 weeks old. I’m nearly 30, and she’s going to be 90 in 2 weeks. She always said that I kept her young, and was a huge motivation for her to stay on top of her health. And Grams and Gramps are not alone - TH will be there.
I live in Rural Alaska now, and I shared this via email with Jenna, but I think it’s fitting to share it here as well:
In rural Alaska, care-giving by grandparents is beyond common. It is thought that the village or community all hold a responsible part in taking care of a child, raising them up with the values the tribe, village, or community desire. It is very common for Grandparents to raise babies for YEARS while parents are off commercial fishing, finishing school, or living in an urban areas working. This is b/c parents are young, strong, able-bodied and able-minded and take care of the family (often very extended) financially, while the grandparents, no longer the primary hunters and providers, have the time, patience, and dedication to watch babies.
This results in children who are deeply rooted to their family. They have forged close relationships with their grandparents, and their grandparents are able to teach them the traditional ways that their parents often forget.
I think it’s also an issue of culture. Maybe where Jenna is coming from culuturally this is a bit unique. Where I’m living? Man, it’s an every day occurance.
Reply
Rachel Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
My husband and I live far away from our families and we are moving back to where most of them live soon. I can understand where “Grandma” is coming from, my parents would not be able to take care of a 2 year old for 6 weeks. However, my husbands parents are beyond excited to not only see the kids but to take some of the burden off of us while we are making a huge life transition. 6 weeks to them alone would be NOTHING (and we have 2 children under 3 years old) and with one of us there to have the kids in the evening and at night? They are looking forward to the challenge as might be the case with Jenna’s parents. Many grandparents are the primary care taker while mom and dad are at work. I don’t really see how this is ANY different given that TH will be there after work.
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
My mom couldn’t take this on either! But then again, she’s been surrounded by her grandchildren and provided almost constant babysitting for many years now. Hopefully my mom will someday get a 6 week break of her own!;)
But her husband and T1′s father will also be there. Even with that, I’m sure she’ll enjoy every minute of it…then collapse and take a big long nap when it’s all over!
Reply
Katy Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Oh, for the record - *I’ve* never used my mom for constant babysitting. We’re out of state - ssshh! Don’t tell my siblings that I talked about them;)
Reply
Shanna Reply:
October 29th, 2011 at 11:17 am
I agree with other posters. It completely depends on individual kids and grandparents. Jenna seems like she has a very young mom since she had T1 so young, and I’m assuming her mom had her young too. My mother is 58 and frequently babysits 4 or 5 of my nephews at a time. She has taken 3 of them for at least a week, sometimes more, while their parents are out of town. I think she’s absolutely insane to volunteer for that, but she seems to love it even though it’s exhausting. Personally, it would kill me at 27 so, I know how you feel, Grandma!
Reply
October 27th, 2011 on 10:42 pm
To preface what I am about to say, I would just like to make it clear that I have no problem with a woman going back to school. And I also think that Jenna must have put a lot of thought into this plan- as any parent probably would.
But I have to say that this post ruffled my feathers a bit. Jenna wrote: “Just wanted to say thanks to all of those who are a breath of fresh (honest, kind, genuine, real, heartfelt, etc) air in the blog world.”
Because she chose to repost a comment that agreed with her POV, this seems to indicate that anyone who does not agree with her is NOT a “breath of fresh air (honest, kind, genuine…).” I can understand her being upset about the negativity being thrown her way, but I fail to see how those who disagree with her are not being “genuine” or “heartfelt.” That’s one of the problems with communication and the internet- we often feel attacked when others don’t agree with us. And while there WERE some blatant attacks… that doesn’t mean that everyone who disagrees with her is out to attack her.
Reply
Marissa C Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
I submitted a comment that disagreed slightly (and is posted near the top) and Jenna thanked me for it.
Reply
October 28th, 2011 on 10:30 am
Ok. There’s just ONE thing about this entire situation that has not sat right with me, and I’ve wanted to ask jenna about it for a while now. I hope hope hope she will have a few minutes to respond, because I think that it would clear up a lot for many people…..
I remember several months ago having my feelings very hurt when I saw her post stating very clearly her and TH’s opinions about women being outside the home. It seemed to me that in your opinion, jenna, women who decided to work outside the home were blatantly disregarding the council of the brethren, and would be held responsible for that. When a few people stated that they felt that they had received revelation that it was the right thing for them to do, it felt like you were brushing that off, bc women WOULDN’T receive revelation to work outside the home bc that’s not what is designed for us to do. I remember being really hurt, which is silly, bc I don’t know you IRL! however, this is why I was hurt: my son was born 9 weeks prematurely and spent the first 3 months of his life in the NICU. We were told.that most likely, he would have rather significant mental and physical deficits; that is if he lived at all. Once we knew that he would live, I remember very clearly the prayer of thanks in which I also asked the Lord to help me know how to pay it forward. Fast forward 18 months. My son was given a clean bill of health that not only would he TOTALLY be ok, but that we probably wouldn’t see any deficits. I remember as clear as day the prompting that I received to become a nurse and pay it forward. Now, he’s a happy, healthy 4 year old, and I’m an ICU nurse who works full time, but also works her butt off to give my patients and their family the love and compassion we received.
So, long winded back story, but here’s the question: why is what I’ve chosen to do not ok, but you leaving your child for weeks at a time totally ok? Is it bc my choice isn’t long term?
Reply
October 28th, 2011 on 10:36 am
Choice IS long term. Sorry. My freaking phone sent my comment before I was done.
But I just have a hard time understanding how its seemed that you’ve been pretty vocal about the fact that women SHOULDN’T be doing what youve chosen to do. Perhaps some of the abuse has made you see a little bit of the other side of the fence, bc just as fun as I’m sure its NOT to be told you’re a “useless Mormon mommy housewife without a degree” (not what I think of you!), its also not fun to be told that my decision to work outside of the home wouldn’t possibly be a true revelation.
I’m so sorry you’re getting so thrashed on here. I would love a reply though…..
Reply
Jenna Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
I think that 6 weeks is drastically different than an entire childhood.
Of course, you shouldn’t take someone talking about an ideal or standards as a personal judgement. At least, I hope you don’t take it that way when the general authorities get up in GC and talk about the ideal we should be reaching toward (fasting, bearing testimonies, honesty, integrity, Sunday worship, etc)
Reply
Julie D. Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Anne, thank you for bringing this up. It is something I, too, have often wondered based on what Jenna posts. I felt like what you are asking also goes back to Sophia’s point about moms/dads who are in the military or how 6 week is a blip on the radar compared to moms who work outside the home.
I, like you, am a nurse and I leave my 6 month old son when I go to work to take care of patients. My patients come from all of the world to the medical center I work in to receive the best possible care and treatment. I feel called to serve the people I serve.I hope that when my son grows up he doesn’t feel as though I abandoned him or didn’t raise him, but instead knows that this world is bigger than himself and that we all have an obligation to serve the people of our community whether that is by taking care of patients at the bedside, fighting our nations wars, being politically active, etc.
While I do think that the previous posters who have commented about Jenna’s attitudes towards finishing college in the past have vaild points, I hope that Jenna is going back to school because she has realized that it does matter and that in a way she is doing what she needs to do to show her son that finishing school is important.
Reply
Anne Lee Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
I could kiss you, Julie. Obviously, I think it’s so important to get an education, because it’s something that’s important to me, but didn’t judge Jenna when she decided to put off school. As I don’t judge her for her decision to leave T1 with TH and That Mom, because you do what’s best for your family!! I just think, Jenna, that sometimes, you’ve become so used to getting bullied for people who don’t agree with your decisions, that you make some rash over-generalizations that can be hurtful. I do also think that were we having this conversation in real life, things might be able to be articulated a little better.
I’m assuming that I misread your tone in your statement of “6 weeks is drastically different from an entire childhood”, because that did come across as a little judgmental, and I really just hope I’m being defensive and jumping to that conclusion. Yes, I work full time outside of the home, but there are other things that I’ve decided to sacrifice so that when I am home, I am with him. THE WHOLE TIME. I don’t think it’s practical to ask SATM’s to not do ANYTHING else and give 100% of their attention to their children, because they’d go crazy! Because I’ve decided to work- to help others, when I’m home, the TV is off, the computer is off, and little buddy and I PLAY. Sure, there are some days when my husband is at work after I’ve worked a grave that Mickey Mouse Clubhouse needs to do an hour or two of babysitting so I can catch a few zzz’s, so I’m not trying to paint this ridiculous picture that I think I’m perfect. (Guess what, I sometimes yell at my kid, too!!)
But, in the end, when I tuck my baby into bed at night, and he asks me if I’m going to work the next day, it makes me feel like a MILLION bucks after I say yes, he asks me I’m going to go help people so they’re not sick anymore. If it weren’t for several Mormon working mothers (the nurses and drs who helped him), I wouldn’t have my baby, so if I spend the rest of my life, and I suppose being “absent during his childhood”, it’s a life well spent.
Reply
Julie D. Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Hey Anne, I’m guessing in your 2nd paragraph you were referring to what I wrote “I felt like what you are asking also goes back to Sophia’s point about moms/dads who are in the military or how 6 week is a blip on the radar compared to moms who work outside the home.” but I was actually just paraphrasing what Sophia wrote (see the last paragraph of her comment that Jenna posted). I think you and I agree and actually feel very similar about this whole topic. Like with you when I’m home with my son (4 out of 7 days a week) the time I have with him is that much sweeter and more focused. I obviously feel compelled to serve my family in the best way possible or I wouldn’t be a wife or mother, but I also feel called to serve the patients I serve every day and it sounds like you do too.
Reply
anne l Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Sorry Julie! Half of my comment was towards you, and half was in response to jenna’s comment to me! Computer communication foils us again!
Reply
Sophia Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
I just wanted to pop in and say that I am the child of working parents, and I see nothing wrong with working parents- I was just, as I said, playing devil’s advocate and talking about how time with/without one’s children could be brandished as a judgment in a myriad of unfair ways
I just really want to make it clear that I have nothing against moms and dads who work outside the home.
Reply
October 28th, 2011 on 10:56 am
Two Ralph Waldo Emerson quotes come to mine after looking at most of the comments:
1. “What I must do is all that concerns me, not what people think.”
2. “Speak what you think today in hard words and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today.”
So maybe Jenna didn’t care about finishing her degree at one point. So what? She has changed her mind. She wants to finish it now! Go for it!
As mothers, we all have to make tough decisions and sacrifices each and every day for our children, ourselves and our families. Isn’t it nice to live in a world where we have choices and are free to choose what is best for us? And really Jenna’s choice to return to school for 6 weeks has no impact on my life and what choices I make for my family! Live and let live!
Reply
October 28th, 2011 on 2:55 pm
I think finishing your degree is definitely worthwhile, but like many others, it’s hard for me to imagine doing it this way if I were in your shoes. I couldn’t imagine leaving my dog for 6 weeks if I had the option not to.
The crux of the issue that Sophia doesn’t address is your option of doing things online from home. No one would argue that taking your classes online would be putting your family first.
People debating what degree of negative impact your leaving for 6 weeks is irrelevant. I’m sure T1 will survive, if not thrive, in grandma’s care. What this choice says about you and your family is probably something that only you and your family can understand.
I think that’s where all the feather-ruffling is coming from. I don’t understand it and can’t put myself in your shoes very easily here.
Reply
Sarah Reply:
October 28th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I also wanted to add that I see you are taking a LOT of heat on this issue and I realize it must be very difficult to deal with in addition to making a difficult life choice like this.
Not only are the SAHMs upset, but the working moms too! I don’t know how you managed to tick off both parties at the same time but that must deserve some sort of award.
Reply
October 28th, 2011 on 3:17 pm
It’s SIX WEEKS, people! Get over it. That’s no time at all, and it’s perfecftly within her rights, and who cares if it hasn’t been important to her in the past (things change), and your petty little opinions and judgments mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Get over it! It’s SIX WEEKS! (Also, I won’t be revisiting this comment section - which is overall RIDICULOUS - so don’t bother replying to this particular post.) Carry on. Rock that degree, Jenna.
Reply
October 29th, 2011 on 5:24 am
Jenna, I read about half the comments on here and then skipped them. You must have thick skin. I would have deleted about 75% of those.
Anyways I don’t have children yet but I agree with a previous commenter who said that women shouldn’t judge each other one way or the other for the choices we make.
I applaud you for making this difficult decision to go back to school. I am almost 24 and still in school too. Not only does having a degree advance the quality of your life if something should happen to TH (God forbid) but more importantly it will give you a great feeling of accomplishment. Why people worry about your son is beyond me because just from reading your blog you can tell how loved that little boy is. Therefore people should realise that the decisions you make as his mother are in his best interest.
I am rooting for you. I will miss reading your blog daily but a degree is definitely way more important. Wishing you all the best.
Reply
October 29th, 2011 on 12:52 pm
Wow — I must live in a totally different world because I don’t get the issue at all. You need to finish your degree — and if I were to say that’s important that is my own moral opinion and that goes back to the worthy vs. non-worthy argument.
Life isn’t perfect. There are no perfect situations, you just go with it and hope you made the right decision.
Reply