15 Jun
If You Ever Want to See an OBGYN Again… Don’t Have a Homebirth
This post would have been a lot sharper, a lot more angry if I had written it an hour ago, but after some time spent T1 and listening to a Dashboard Confessional Pandora station I now feel like curling up into a corner and crying. And eating my feelings.
Based on your comments from my last post about an OBGYN visit I canceled my 2nd appointment with the lecturing OB and asked some friends for recommendation. All of the wives of the LDS guys that work with my husband go to Tuscan OBGYN and rave about everyone there, and though they all had hospital births I figured things would be better. I managed to get an appointment as a new patient on the very day my birth control sample pack would run out so I wouldn’t have to miss a day. After the disaster that was my appointment today, my stupid withdrawal bleeding is going to start up as my confused body adjusts to being back off the hormones again… but I’m getting ahead of myself.
(Oh, and the reason I keep going to an OB and now a midwife is that I want birth control, haven’t had a pap smear for 2 years, and suspect a yeast infection, and I want my visit covered by insurance. Several people have suggested a CNM, Planned Parenthood, or general practitioner. I have visited none of those before here in Dallas but I think they are a good choice for my third try at this.)
I ate, showered, got dressed, fed T1, changed a poopy diaper right before we walked out the door, loaded him in the car seat only to have him scream for the entire car ride there, took him out of his car seat, carried him up to the office, handed over the new patient paperwork I had filled out at home (you know, the pages and pages of it), sat in the waiting room for 20 minutes past my appointment time, was ushered back, weighed, asked the standard set of questions by the nurse, had my blood pressure taken, moved rooms, and sat and waited for the doctor to grace me with his presence.
He walked in and shook my hand, commenting on how cute T1 is (an obvious statement). He asked how long ago I had given birth, I said 9 weeks, and he asked me where I had delivered. I replied that it had been a home birth, and he went out of his way to turn away from his paperwork and back up against the counter in shock. His eyebrows raised and he asked “You didn’t see an OB your entire pregnancy?” Anticipating what was coming I told him that I had switched from a previous provider because I had been lectured on my choice to birth at home and that I was just there to get some birth control and would appreciate not receiving a lecture on my choices. He gathered up his stuff and opened the door, and I asked him to please stay and just write me a prescription for birth control because that’s all I wanted. He told me I was free to leave whenever I wanted and I asked one more time if he would please just stay and finish the appointment. He refused and left.
I left, announcing loudly in the receptionist office that the doctor had refused to see me and I would not be covering my copay (how lucky that I hadn’t payed beforehand, right?). I made it 10 steps out of the door before I burst into tears, calling That Husband on the phone and sobbing heavily. He urged me to go back in and stand up for myself, but “standing up for myself” was what had me sobbing in the first place. I guess the medical community would prefer doormats who don’t speak their mind? The medical community in Irving, TX anyway.
I cashed a check on the way home, reading all kinds of outraged tweets in response to my own tweets describing the encounter (thanks to everyone who responded sympathetically, it helped calm me down a lot). By the time I got home T1 was demanding another bottle and I had the chance to cool down. TH called me to let me know he had talked to the OB, and I had to remind myself that he wasn’t siding with the ignorant jerk who walked out on me when he said that the OBGYN had made it clear that “I didn’t want to continue with the questions that he was required by law to ask”.
Oh sure, because saying that you don’t want to be told you are a stupid idiot for choosing to birth at home and not use an OBGYN for your pregnancy is EXACTLY the same as refusing to cooperate with state mandated questions. Did his little form have on it somewhere: Be sure to treat patients like you know everything and they know nothing.
Maybe he is a perfectly nice man (and friends who recommended his office please don’t feel bad, I’m just happy you had better experiences), but he was still a jerk, and I still think that he walked out because he only wants patients who are going to nod their head and giggle at everything he says, the way I did with the last doctor, actions I’ve come to regret since. Unfortunately this post probably isn’t going to encourage anyone to stand up for themselves when it comes to their own medical care because it would certainly be easier to just lie about where I gave birth and go along with everything he says, right?
Today, I’m going to name names because I think that as someone who pays hard earned money toward insurance premiums and deductibles, I have the right to be cared for with respect. If you are a woman thinking about using Dr. Steven A. Hoffman as your OBGYN, and you plan on educating yourself and taking charge of your own medical care (as I think every woman should), I think you should think twice before using him as your care provider. Based on my experience he is not a good choice for a thinking woman’s OBGYN.
I’m feeling dejected at the thought of going through the “new patient” process once again. I feel frustrated that despite the assurance from people that “there are open minded OBGYNs out there who are able to look past anecdotal evidence and approach medical care from an evidenced based viewpoint”, I can’t seem to find those providers myself. Overall I just want to cry into an extra large tub of the richest chocolate ice cream I can find. Today was overall a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.
Also:
I'm a farm-raised almost-crunchy stroller-pushing picture-taking lifestyle-blog-writing gastronomy-obsessed divine-seeking thrift-store-combing cheese-inhaling pavement-pounding laughter-sprinkling lover of individuality and taking chances.
I’m so sorry about your day.
I suggest Haagen Dazs Chocolate. Maybe add some chocolate sauce too?
1YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!! WTFudge?!?!?!?! Maybe you can call someone else and tell them beforehand that you did a home birth and don’t wish to discuss it???
2Oh Lord!!! Soon you’ll be here in Chicago, where we have nice doctors!! In the meantime, try Planned Parenthood for a pill prescription - I feel like with all the *interesting* situations they see, your story shouldn’t be such a shock. What is with these sheltered doctors??? Gah.
Hang in there, I know how frustrating it is when all you want to do is be responsible and get the pill. I’ve had similar situations (cancer-related, sadly, and not birth-related) and it really is ridiculous how difficult they make it to obtain birth control. It’s not like I’m going to crush up the pills and sell them on the street!!! You’d think we were trying to get medical weed.
I hope your night gets better hon. Chin up!
Rachel Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
I have to agree with Stephanie’s suggestion of Planned Parenthood. I started going there after college when I didn’t have health insurance because they have such affordable costs, and kept going even after I did get insurance just because I really felt respected and treated like a grown woman in charge of her own health (unlike at my previous gyn). Also, as far as the non-judgmental, one visit I had there the doctor came in and said “I hope you aren’t the most unusual patient I have today because the bar has already been set pretty high. With saran wrap.” I highly doubt that a home birth will make them blink an eye! (and I also hope that isn’t inappropriate to post- I apologize if it is as I just want to let you know that seriously, there are some weirdos out there and you are not one of them!)
Laura Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
I’m seconding this seconding of Planned Parenthood. Like Rachel, I started going to PP when I couldn’t afford care elsewhere, but I’ve continued going since I got health insurance because I love the people I have interacted with there. They’re very professional, and more importantly they’re non-judgmental. (And perhaps if more people equated professionalism with being non-judgmental it wouldn’t be such a fight to find a good doctor.)
The experience I had at PP that sealed the deal for me was when I was getting my birth control renewed last time, and the nurse gave me the standard “since you’re overweight, your chance of blood clots, etc is increased” spiel. She went over it, addressed the serious concerns, and came out on the end without making me feel like a bad person for being overweight. It was perfect. So even though I’ve never brought up the issue of home birth to them, I think they’re trained to deal with a wide, wide variety of personal choices and won’t be judgmental (or at least won’t let it effect your visit).
Finally, I’m really sorry you’ve had two nasty experiences with OBGYNs. No one deserves to be treated like that. Kudos for standing up for yourself against biased, patronizing attitudes disguised as medical care.
Say, could you try a GP? They probably have fewer requests for bcp, so maybe they’ll respond in a more normal (read: sane) fashion.
4Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I’m honestly telling you to go ahead and find that extra large tub of the richest chocolate ice cream you can find to cry into to- that’s probably what I would do.
5I sincerely hope you can find a non-biased OB/GYN soon and get everything straightened out.
And this is why I have not been to see an OB/GYN in the 17 months since G was born… You said exactly what I would have wanted to say, but would not have been brave enough to. Go you!
When I saw a midwife at my university for birth control, she performed a pap and can diagnose minor issues like yeast infections. I think a midwife is still a viable option for you! (Though I can’t speak to insurance, since I saw the midwife at my university clinic, I paid a flat fee, I think $60? for my annual exam.)
Planned Parenthood could do absolutely any and all of the services you need. Despite their bad rep, about 98% of the services they perform are basic gynecological maintenance like annual exams.
You could also most likely get an emergency prescription for birth control from your primary care physician, if you explain the extenuating circumstances and that you are scheduling a pap.
I am so sorry you went through this. It’s just wrong. I hope tomorrow is a better day!
kylydia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 6:35 pm
Planned Parenthood has a bad rep? They were excellent practitioners when I went.
Law School Wife Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
As soon as I clicked “Submit” I knew I should have worded that differently. I see an OBGYN in private practice now, and she volunteers (? not sure the process) her time at Planned Parenthood on a regular basis, so I’m confident the care you receive there is on par with private practice. What I should have said was that Planned Parenthood has a bad reputation in certain circles, ie anti-abortion circles, and the point I was trying to make is that regular reproductive health services such as annual exams comprise far and away the largest part of services rendered. Sorry for the poor wording!
Katie Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Why would you need an emergency prescription from a PCP? My former PCP used to write me birth control prescriptions all the time, and she did not do my Paps.
Law School Wife Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:12 am
My PCP will not write a prescription for birth control without having a pap within a certain amount of time on file, regardless of what office performed the pap. I don’t think doctors care if they themselves did the pap or not, just that you’re getting one. I said emergency since Jenna says she hasn’t had a pap in two years, and some doctors still require an annual pap before writing a prescription(though two years is now the new recommendation).
cm Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:33 am
Exactly. As I posted below, every time I’ve gone to a planned parenthood for birth control and regular exams and stuff, there have been people there yelling about baby killing. I’ve never had an abortion and I don’t plan to, but they seem to think that’s the only reason people go to planned parenthood!
Sara Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I believe the protestors are protesting planned parenthood and those who advocate and support the organization by giving them their business whether clients are there for an abortion or a regular checkup, not that the protestors assume everyone going there is going for an abortion.
Jenna, it is unfortunate you have had such bad experiences, I guess it has not been easy for you to screen Dr’s opinions on home births ahead of time before they take you through that whole process. I feel you have full right to mention his name on your blog, freedom of speech, just as you would recommend or not recommend a vendor.
Yikes! I’m so sorry that happened to you. It sounds like a terrible experience, and I can completely understand why you would be so upset! I would urge you to keep looking for a more open-minded and empathetic doctor. Aside from your need for a birth control prescription, it is so important to get regular pap smears (I’m not lecturing you- I know you know this, which is why you went looking for an OBGYN). After you recover from this experience, I do hope you can find a doctor who you are comfortable seeing and who will offer you the quality services you need and deserve.
7I’m so sorry you had such a negative experience again. A professional would have stayed in the room, explained that there were questions he needed to ask and tried to proceed with the appointment. You told him you didn’t want to be lectured, if that wasn’t his plan he should have said as much.
8You should be proud of yourself for not sitting through another lecture just to get medication. I know it’s the doctor’s job to get the information they need to prescribe medication, but it is also their job to listen to their patient and it’s apparent neither of these two Dr’s want to do that unless they like what they hear.
((HUG))
I hate that you had this experience. I live in San Francisco, and many doctors are receptive and supportive to the idea of home birth. If your insurance covers a nurse practitioner or other “non doctor” who is able to write scripts and do paps - I highly recommend it. NPs are better for a WIDE variety of reasons, and I doubt you’d get any judgment about your birth choice.
9I’m glad you named him so that you can prevent others from seeing someone who apparently has a God complex. At least it gave you something to blog about, right?
If I was a doctor I’d write you a prescription! Love you!
10I am SO sorry. My mother has been “dismissed” as a patient at multiple doctors in town because she stands up for her self.
11I am so, so, so very sorry you had to go through that, Jenna, and thankful your husband called the OB for you. That was a very, very, very nice thing for him to do.
In my experience, GPs are the way to go. My OB was *always* in a rush, but I have a fantastic GP who always spends time with me and asks me questions.
xoxo
12So sorry Jenna! Does your midwife have any referrals??
13While I think Planned Parenthood is a good option if you absolutely need to get birth control as soon as possible, if you are pro-life (I don’t know) I would avoid supporting an institution that is a vocal advocate of abortion-on-demand.
Chloe (Island Wed) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Why do you think Planned Parenthood advocates “abortion-on-demand”? Is it because of the morning after pill or because of their referrals for abortions?
(I know this is totally off topic Jenna, so please feel free to delete if you want. I just am curious about this statement and wanted to ask a bit more - definitely not looking to start anything.)
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
From Wikipedia’s entry on Planned Parenthood:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood#cite_ref-15
“The modern organization of Planned Parenthood America is also an advocate for reproductive rights, including the right to abortion.[10] This advocacy includes contributing to sponsorship of abortion rights and women’s rights events[11] and assisting in the testing of new contraceptives.[12] The group opposes restrictions on abortion, including:
>>laws requiring parental consent or notification for girls under the age of 18 (or 17 in some states) to have an abortion
>>laws requiring an ultrasound before abortion (many Planned Parenthood clinics perform, but do not require, ultrasounds)
>>laws requiring a waiting period (ranging from a couple of hours to a day or more)”
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Just to put some numbers on it, only 3% of Planned Parenthood’s services are abortion related. The other 97% of services Planned Parenthood offers are for general health and well being of women and their partners.
Personally, I think that someone who is pro-life would appreciate supporting an institution that makes it possible for low income women to access cheap and quality medical care and birth control that prevents unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions.
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
That’s a good point Sophia. But I don’t think it contradicts my point that Planned Parenthood is an institution that supports and advocates abortion-on-demand. I’m just saying it’s something to consider, as are the points you bring up.
Jennifer Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Jessica, I would encourage you to actually do research beyond wikipedia if you would like to make such statements. Sorry for the off topic continuation Jenna
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Jennifer, thank you for the general advice, but if you’re actually challenging the veracity of what I’ve cited here, I would encourage YOU to actually do any research at all, since you seem to have done none at all. Do you contest that Planned Parenthood advocates abortion-on-demand, or are you just trying to embarrass me?
Jenna - I’m sorry - I honestly wasn’t trying to go off topic, I was just pointing a fact out that I thought you might be interested in based on some of your other political/relibious positions.
Chloe (Naturally Frugal) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
I think that I’m confused by your term “abortion-on-demand”. What exactly do you think “abortion-on-demand” is? My interpretation of that is that a woman walks in, says “I want an abortion” and is given one right then and there. Clearly Planned Parenthood doesn’t advocate or provide that type of service.
I think it’s the wording that is a bit jarring, and the fact that wikipedia is not a very good source for reliable facts, especially since nowhere in that link did it cite that Planned Parenthood advocates FOR abortions (as in that is the only probably end to a pregnancy for the women visiting their clinic), just for womens rights and the right to choose as well as more lenient laws.
Thank you for replying, I know this can become a heated topic, but was interested because I had never heard of “abortion-on-demand” before and am genuinely curious about those who use the phrase & what it means to them.
Jennifer Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Jessica, I was not challenging the veracity of your statement because your original statements were opinion. Further, I do not contest that Planned Parenthood provides and offers abortion services and I am definitely not trying to embarrass you, in fact let me apologize because my comment did in fact read rather “snarky” and that was not my intent. Hopefully this will better explain my intentions:
I do believe that the wikipedia article that you reference has a clear political slant and opinion about Planned Parenthood (actually that’s the beauty of a wiki but open wiki and the accuracy of wiki information is REALLY off topic) and the descriptions of “abortion-on demand” reflect that. It is also my opinion that even the term “abortion-on-demand” has a political slant and is in fact often used by anti-abortion politicians (democrat and republican alike). Your response to Chloe’s question about why you considered PP to be advocates of abortion-on-demand was to post information from the wiki article: I don’t think that answered her question but instead presented at the very least incomplete information about Planned Parenthood. This seemed to be a disservice to not only PP but also to YOUR original opinion about why someone may choose to forgo services at PP because of a pro-life position or other religious belief.
I guess at the end of the day what I was trying to say, and what I hope I am saying in a nicer way now is: don’t tell me what you think Planned Parenthood’s mission is, explain why you a real person (without a political spin machine) may choose to forgo services at Planned Parenthood or alternatively choose not to support them financially or with patronage because of personal beliefs. This is one of those areas where there will always be disagreements between individuals but I would always rather hear what real people have to say as opposed to anonymous wiki writers.
PS excellent use of the word veracity!
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Thanks for responding Jennifer — I now understand what you were saying. The simple answer to your question — regarding why I wouldn’t go to Planned Parenthood — is that I try to avoid giving business or money to organizations that advocate positions I find morally objectionable. (I won’t go into details regarding why I’m pro-life and why I oppose Planned Parenthood’s positions — that’s a whole other topic I think! :-)) But for me, I wouldn’t patronize a business that performs elective abortions. If anyone else is interested in finding pro-life ob-gyn services, a directory of pro-life ob-gyns can be found here: http://www.aaplog.org/
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
The LDS church opposes elective abortion.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=63c139b439c98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
Planned Parenthood advocates for wide access to elective abortion.
That is why I thought Jenna might be interested in finding another source for birth control.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
You’re right Jessica, it doesn’t contradict that notion, they do support abortion on demand. It just seems as though they are often unfairly painted as an abortion factory, as though that is their sole purpose. That was why I brought up the specific numbers, because to me, if 97% of their services are involved in cheap, effective, quality health care for women, and if the vast majority of the 97% involves dispensing effective birth control, then I would say that they are, in the end, preventing more unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions than they are performing. I guess it just frustrates me that they provide a necessary service in this climate of very expensive or non-existent health insurance, but they seem to be routinely painted as the “bad guy”, if that makes sense. I can appreciate that those who are pro-life would be uncomfortable supporting even that 3% of their activities, but to me it’s not quite as black and white as that- not saying you see it as black and white, but I’ve talked to the protesters that stand outside the clinic on many on occasion, and unfortunately the pamphlets they hand out, and the information they are disseminating, is often completely false.
Equality and access in women’s health is near and dear to my heart, so I always have to gently point out my views on Planned Parenthood because of it
Thank you for not thinking I was attacking you, just presenting an alternate view.
Betts Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
“Just to put some numbers on it, only 3% of Planned Parenthood’s services are abortion related. The other 97% of services Planned Parenthood offers are for general health and well being of women and their partners. Personally, I think that someone who is pro-life would appreciate supporting an institution that makes it possible for low income women to access cheap and quality medical care and birth control that prevents unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions.” -Sophia
I guess because I am pro-life, I simply can’t overlook that 3%. Abortion is a black/white issue for me, with no gray areas. But those are my views on abortion and PP, and I would be interested to know where Jenna stands on this issue. Maybe another time, another post? I’ll be on the look-out.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
I can appreciate that you have the opportunity to “vote with your dollar” and not patronize PP, and I think that is a smart and honorable way of living your values.
My concern is the fact that the rampant misinformation about PP slanders the good work they do. In addition, for many women PP is the only low cost provider in their reach, and they do not have the luxury of “voting with their dollar” even if they do disagree with abortion services. I believe in voting with your dollar, but I also believe in admitting that some people don’t have that luxury, so I wish their options weren’t shamed. I know it seems like a weird comparison, but it reminds me of locavore/farmer’s market/Whole Foods shoppers turning up their noses at people who shop at Wal-Mart- “don’t they know how AWFUL Wal-Mart is?? How can they support that!”. I’m not saying you’re shaming PP users, I’m just saying that I grow tired, as a women’s health advocate, and as a student of poverty and sociology, of seeing PP unilaterally maligned as an abortion chop shop, when the reality is that almost 100% of their services are aimed at good old fashioned sexual health, specifically women’s health, and that for many women it is PP services that allow them to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
Laura Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:04 am
I just want to thank Sophia and Jennifer for your words. You had great tact. So much better than I could have.
Jessica - It is fine to give the opinion that PP doesn’t fit your and also maybe TW beliefs. I was actually surprised that she mentioned it because I had assumed she wouldn’t want to use them so it is not that your point was not valid. But using terms such as “abortion-on-demand” are loaded made-up phrases that do not add to a constructive conversation. Though I may not agree with you, I agree with Jennifer that your point would be better served and less combative if you were using your own words and beliefs. What I mean is using the phrase “abortion-on-demand” and then replying with a Wiki post.
I also wanted to add that using such a term can be really offensive. You may be on the other side of the issue but it does not correct to imply that women (or PP) take abortion lightly.
Pro Life or Pro Choice, let’s not be so quick as to assume than any of us women are two-dimensional. We know better than that. We all know that life is complicated and almost nothing is really ever black or white. It is not as simple as saying that PP “pro-abortion”. We may not agree but we should all be aware of the fact that it is a serious issue for both sides, not just pro-life.
This is a basic respect that I wish I saw more of when people talk about this and other polarizing issues. The debate can be about the issue while not also demonizing the people on the other side. The term “abortion on demand” insults people who are pro choice by implying that they are” pro abortion” and take abortion lightly. The argument for the people who are pro-choice is over right to choice when it comes to abortion. No one I have ever known is “pro abortion”.
I don’t mean AT ALL to take anything away from Jenna’s post……but I had to say that on this thread.
Jessica Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:57 am
I never used the words pro-abortion. I don’t think the term abortion-on-demand is combative or insulting, I think it’s descriptive. I’m not saying that any particular person takes abortion lightly, I’m simply pointing out that Planned Parenthood supports public policies that allow women to receive abortions for any reason any time — as in “a woman demands an abortion and it is given.” But thanks for your comment — I agree with much of what you’ve said regarding being respectful of the other side. I don’t think anything I’ve done or said has been disrespectful. Again I was simply posting to mention one consideration in determining where to “vote with your dollar.” Thanks all.
P.S. When you get to Chicago, I have THE BEST GP in the world. Seriously, she rocks. They can prescribe birth control for you as well!!
15I am so sorry you continue to have issues with finding an open-minded, patient-centered provider. It can be tough. I wholeheartedly agree with you that everyone needs to take a more active role in their medical care, and never, EVER hesitate to ask questions or disagree with a doctor. They have been highly trained, yes, but their function is essentially that of a mechanic. They are to fix our bodies, and who knows our bodies better than we do? Certainly not a doctor who is being met for the first time.
I’ve had doctors accuse me of faking a problem because they couldn’t find anything wrong quickly. I know when something isn’t right with my body, and I do not take kindly to being called a liar.
I wish you luck in your continued search for the right office for you. Sending hugs your way as well, I know how much it sucks.
16I am so sorry you had such a bad experience (again). I just googled to try to help, and I found this website: http://knowbirth.com/professionals.aspx
There is a section for OBs Supportive of Natural Birth. Hope that helps!
17Re:FeistyNC, I don’t think refusing to discuss your home birth is the way to go. Obviously, a doctor is going to need to know how your birth experience was in order to properly treat you.
I think the doctor treated you appallingly, and I’m sorry. But I think you probably also went into the appointment anticipating that you’d be judged, and that didn’t help anyone.
Maybe next time tell the doctor the same thing, that you were treated horribly by two practicioners because of your experience, and you’re really nervous. Not, “I don’t wish to discuss it”, but “be aware that I’ve been through the ringer, here.”
Maybe if you told them you were a home birther when you made the appointment, you’d have different results?
I don’t know, dear. I just hate to think that the entire medical community could be so ugly about something that clearly worked out well for you.
Jessica Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
I agree, maybe you should make it clear at the time you set up your appointment that you had a home birth and you are nervous about how that will be received. Or maybe even call around and ask if the doctor is supportive of a woman who had a home birth BEFORE setting up an appointment? Maybe it would be worth a little extra work if it spared you another horrible incident.
J Reply:
June 17th, 2010 at 5:37 am
I agree that the Dr. was inappropriate to walk out on you and the he should have made it clear to you (maybe he did/maybe he didn’t) that he is legally obligated to ask about your birth. That being said, I think you were preparing for a fight before he even got there based on your first bad experience. I think Chealsea said it best above, you need to let them know this is not an easy topic of conversation based on past confrontations but you need to also be willing and able to communicate about T1′s birth and your overall well being. I think any doctor will be more inderstanding if you are willing to have the conversation and do not put up walls or refuse to listen even if it means you may get lectured. They did go to med school for a reason. You don’t have to take the doctor’s advice and I think it is fine to listen and simply state, “thank you for the insight but I had a great experience and would not change anything about my birth.”
Alternatively, would your midwife be able to recommend any doctors that she has worked with in the past or know other patients see?
I know you don’t tolerate cursing but that totally effing sucks.
Do you have a general practitioner? I’ve had my GP prescribe birth control before.
Maybe you could call the office back and ask what questions he was “legally mandated” to ask, so that you can be prepared for next time. If they actually are legally mandated, it’s best to be prepared!
19If you really want an MD Dr I’d recommend going to one that is the “on-call” Dr for a midwife. {Although I’d also recommend a midwife ’cause that’s what I have and LOVE} I am so sorry you had a negative experience. I know it’s not looking in your favor but not all Dr’s are arrogant snobs.
20That is awful! Seriously, how unprofessional is that doctor? If he’s required by law to ask you those questions, then how hard would it have been for him to simply say so? Interesting that he would say that to your husband over the phone, but in person with you, he thought it was ok to treat you like crap?
I agree, go get some chocolate ice cream and get refreshed. Good luck in finding some medical help.
Katy Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
I find it interesting too that he couldn’t just tell her all that rationally the way he did with her husband. Doctors get ‘emotional’ too - they’re just people of course - but they can’t be like that AND be the ones holding all the cards and deciding the fate of your medical care.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
It kind of rankled me that he was willing to discuss Jenna’s health via her husband over the phone, yet stomped out and refused to discuss Jenna’s health when she was sitting right there in front of him
Helena Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Actually, Jenna, did you give the OB/GYN permission to discuss your care with your husband? Because I know that if some random husband calls me up to discuss his wife’s care my lips are sealed until I have permission from the wife to talk!
Samantha Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Helena is right, unless you gave express written consent that TH (or anyone else for that matter) has access to your medical records then your doctor violated HIPPA laws. He is not allowed to discuss any aspect of the care you recieved without your consent (even to your spouse).
* btw I’m not trying to say that TH didn’t do a very sweet thing by trying to mediate the situation, just that your doctor MAY have been out of line (yet again :]) in discussing your care without your consent.
Helena Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 5:58 am
Then again, we don’t know that this particular doctor actually revealed any of Jenna’s medical information. There’s no harm in returning a professional call, but from that point forward there is a fine line there between what you can and can’t reveal.
And, if Jenna put TH’s name anywhere on the “pages and pages” of new patient information, she may have already given him permission to let them discuss her care.
Maggie Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 5:59 am
eh, he didn’t really discuss Jenna’s care without her consent as no care was provided! Unfortunately a doctor can refuse to treat a patient, and he was probably covering his own arse. Sorry this happened to you Jenna. I hope you can find an OBGYN that is a good fit for you.
Barb Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 9:51 am
I find it slightly disturbing that we are willing to slander this doctor about violating HIPPA laws when we aren’t exactly sure of what he discussed, what Jenna allowed in writing in her paperwork (most new patient paperwork requires you to list those with whom your dr can discuss your private information, and I would *presume* (again an presumption on my part) Jenna would list her husband). As much as Jenna’s experience was not to her liking, speculating about what laws the dr *may or may not* have been in violation of is an extremely different story.
Jenna, I am so sorry about your awful experience. I know how hard it is to stand up for yourself in tense situations like that, and I applaud you for doing so. I am so sick of doctors just railroading their patients into whatever they think is best. What was the point of a meet and greet if he wasn’t going to listen to you anyway?
I hope that you are able to find an OB that works for you, and soon!
22Poor girl! Sounds horrible! I would suggest requesting a female OBGYN or a nurse practitioner if you decide to try an office again. I think a lady could be less ego-ish. And seriously just lie about the home birth. Say you waited too long and didn’t make it to the hospital, which would be true-sorta. It’s not worth the battle. Get your pap, and your pill prescription and get the heck otta there. It’s strange that a doc would care one bit about where you gave birth. It is done and over with.
Either way, ice cream is good for what ails you. And kisses on fuzzy baby heads too
Helena Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Oh dear, never lie to your doctor. Please. For your own health and well being. Never, never, never lie. We usually find out anyway, and it only delays time to treatment and causes a rift in the doctor-patient therapeutic relationship.
Sandra Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 8:09 am
Not to mention that people are always going on about why doctors don’t trust their answers (especially about not being sexually active etc) and instead confirm medically. Why should they when other people clearly advocate lying in any way?
e2r2z Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Clearly, I was advocating always lying to your doctor. Yes, that is what I meant. In life we make decisions and often there are some battles not worth fighting. Jenna has received post-natal care and having a home birth in no way determines which type of birth control a doctor should prescribe. Since that information (where she gave birth) has absolutely no bearing on getting a pap smear, being checked for a yeast infection and getting birth control - it is ok to omit or to lie about the information. It would serve you well to take comments on blogs that are related to a particular post within the context of the information provided in the post. Now, if Jenna was discussing the fact that she was on several prescription medications and didn’t want to share that information with her doctor or be lectured about how many pills she was popping, I would never advocate lying…context…people…context.
Ohhh, so sad to read this post - but it made me feel compelled to leave you a note. It’s been amazing for me to read about your experience with a home birth and talk about the scenario with my own husband (for future kiddos). Thank you for so candidly sharing the ins & outs of your struggles (and triumphs!) You seem like an amazingly strong and incredible woman! Hang in there.
xoxo
24Oh my dear…I feel so bad for you with what you had to go through today. I clicked on the link to their website and was sickened and flabbergasted to see “Blending modern, sophisticated treatment with COMPASSIONATE CARE.” UM, excuse me?!?!? I could certainly insert an adjective far more fitting than the one they used. lol.
Anyway, I just want you to know that I applaud your courage…and despite your insanely horrible experience, I hope this doesn’t discourage you from standing up for yourself in the future. Whether or not they accept it or treat you with respect, I hope that you can feel some sort of comfort inside knowing that you were true to YOURSELF!
I am proud of you! You are an inspiration to me.
25Sounds like a total jerk to me, and how rude to just walk out without any explanation as to why he doesn’t want to see you. Very childish.
I hope you can find a doctor who will treat you with the respect every patient deserves - maybe try a woman this time?
26Jenna! Wow- I can’t respond very well without swearing, so I have nothing more to say than four letter words and that is absolutely awful. Good for you for sticking by your guns, and the h*ll with Texas and it’s doctors!
27I am so sorry this happened to you again!
You will find a doctor that doesn’t freak out.
28So here’s what I think…take it for what you will.
You should count your blessings that he dismissed you then, instead of wasting your time going through all of that, perhaps another visit or two, and still have you feeling uncomfortable with him and the way he treats you.
It seems he isn’t comfortable with patients that birth at home, and I’m in no way defending him, but I think you are better off without him. At least it was only a piece of your day he ruined instead of weeks and weeks. As I read this, I thought, “what a jerk”, and then I realized, sometimes I’m that “jerk”. I interview my prospective violin students/parents before I agree to accept them in my studio. There are things I demand, and if my students expectations don’t meet my own, then I tell them I’m not currentl accepting students.
Don’t get me wrong, I would be flaming pissed if I were you, but, sometimes it helps to see another side. I’m envious of your ability to stand up for yourself - it’s not something I do easily. All I’m saying is, at least you only wasted that much time, instead of a WHOLE LOT MORE.
xoxoxo
p.s. I hesitated saying this, because I read your post about struggling with mean commenters. I’m not being mean - I swear!! I LOVE to read your blog - so keep your chin up - and keep blogging! xoxoxoxoxo
Jenna Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
I didn’t think your comment was mean or critical at all, and I think it would apply if I was planning a long term relationship with this guy, but I only needed to see him once. Ever. We needed to spend maybe 15 minutes out of our entire lives together but he wasn’t interested.
Katie Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Good point.
Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
But the doc doesn’t know that. (In all fairness).
caitlin Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Yes the doctor did know that - she said that all she wanted was birth control.
Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
He didn’t know that she would never see him again after that visit is what I was referring to.
caitlin Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
ah i see. nevermind
crazydaisy Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:56 am
It would be irresponsible of the doctor to just had over birth control without so much as a medical history, questions and even an exam (IMO). Jenna’s better off finding an OB who supports home birth or using PP then one off visits to docs for BC- for both their sakes.
Jennifer Reply:
June 27th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
But doctors aren’t simply drug dispensing machines. It would be irresponsible to prescribe “just birth control” w/o having done a complete H&P. Think of how often OB/GYNs get sued. BCP is a drug (many different ones) with real risks, and if his first encounter with a patient is one where she refuses to answer questions or even *discuss* her choices, and hasn’t even had a pap in 2 years, I don’t really blame him for stepping away. Both parties probably could have handled it better, but I don’t think you need to trash the man.
I love the doctor’s little twist there at the end to explain himself - - that’s EXACTLY what our jerk pediatrician did to me. Made me look like the crazy lady and he the rational, normal person. I’m so glad you didn’t pay your copay or give them anything else.
I’m so glad you posted his name too. I didn’t have the nerve to publicly tell our story because 1)I wasn’t sure anyone would really believe me or have any sympathy for me unless they REALLY knew us 2)so many of our friends absolutely love this pediatrician so they would probably have taken it with a grain of salt anyway and not realize how that jerk doctor pretty much caused one of the worst things that has happened to us.
I’m so sorry. I know how you are feeling right now and I’m so proud that you stood up for yourself. I know it would easier to be a spineless, brainless patient and just say “Yes, doctor, whatever you say” but that’s not what you should do. If more people stood up to doctor’s and demanded that they be treated like thinking, breathing EQUALS, more doctors would get the picture that they can’t just hold all the cards all the time and treat patients like mindless puppies.
This is a major hot-button topic for me if you cannot tell!
30im sorry that he would treat you like that.- truly horrible and not a good way to greet new patients, like that. please know you did the right thing by standing up for yourself. trust me, i have gone to doctor’s and nicely stated my opinion after doing educated research and have also gotten blown off by them. its a horrible feeling and at first it made me feel stupid and really down but i kept looking for a doctor and found one that would listen to my opinion and hear me out.- dont worry you will find one too- dont give up and dont ever apolgize or feel bad about stating your opinions to doctors. sorry for your crappy day- i think today is a great day for icecream
31I don’t think you should feel discouraged at all for standing up for yourself. I don’t know you but I feel proud that you did that.. because in a way you are standing up for other women who chose a home birth as well.
32Even though he refused treatment, you should be happy that he didn’t try to berate you after you had said what you said. In my mind, seeing someone walk away after standing up for yourself (placing boundaries) rather than give you that lecture is a small victory.
And you know what, I am sure he’ll be thinking about this situation himself for a while.
I wish you luck with your birth control endeavors ! Be prepared, though, if you do go to PP that there is a LONG wait. I Went with a friend who I waited with for about two hours.. just in the waiting room.
What a weird guy. It doesn’t take a lot for him to get upset. You think he would say something like “because you won’t answer these questions, I won’t see you”…instead of getting up and leaving. I am just speechless as to his immaturity.
I go to a planned parenthood type of situation…and I read the pro life comment above, the great thing about Planned Parenthood is they are not there to judge you. You just get your birth control and you leave.
I agree with some of the other comments you can just get your regular doctor to call it in, you don’t need to even go in.
Sorry people are such a-holes.
33I’m so sorry that you were treated like that. No one deserves that. My lawyer instincts were blazing while reading your post, trying (unsuccessfully, but hey, I’m young and inexperienced) to find a cause of action. Not that lawsuits are the magic solution, but sometimes they really can be a powerful way of changing things for the better for everyone.
You’ve probably already thought of this, but would there be anyway for you to get OB recommendations from your midwife, or past patients of hers or some other group of home birth moms in the area? Or maybe mention something when you make the next appointment.
If not, I can second recommendations for planned parenthood. I can’t speak for the ones in your corner of TX, but every experience I’ve had with them was very friendly and professional, and I’ve only heard good things from others. Plus they are often able to work with insurance. The waiting room can feel a little more awkward than a normal Dr.’s office, but that’s nothing compared to being treated well.
You really shouldn’t have to take any of these steps, you should just be treated decently to begin with. But, I still hope things work out.
Emmie Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Haha, me too I was looking for a COA too..alas no damages!! I think it’s our natural response!
The Doc Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
For one example of how law suits have certainly changed things (although, maybe not for the better) please read the paper here: http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1157&context=uchcgs_masters
I’m curious to know your thoughts on this?
Wow.
Um. Wow.
I am just CURIOUS… I am NOT saying you should have stayed there to find out. But what other ‘questions’ are they ‘mandated by law’ to ask that this OB/Gyn claims they clearly werent able to get out of you.
Honestly, I would have responded the same way as you. You re-directed him to the point of the visit (obtaining a prescription) and why you had left the previous provider. But I wonder in a way if you have a heightened sense of defensiveness?
Look I know I wasn’t there. I know that non-verbal communication can be powerful and I am sure he probably eminated quite a bit of it that may be perceived negatively. But He probably felt that (from his perspective) that you obviously were requesting something from him and weren’t open to engaged in a dialogue that he perhaps perceives he needed to engaged in with you in order to feel like he can A) provide for a NEW patient B) get a sense of where to start with someone he may never have worked with who has had a home birth C) doesn’t want to be told ‘just give me birth control and disregard the home birth part’ which is obviously- part of him needing to redirect his health care questionnaire which is not developed for the home-birther.
I’ll admit there are a lot of times in my own professional practice where I am taken aback by things I didn’t anticipate…. I had a new patient come to the office from a different state with their three year old daughter. I noticed the immunization record was blank so I said let’s go over it- and the mom responded she hadn’t given ANYTHING to her kid. So I too must have looked astonished- but I didn’t go from a place of “And why not?” I had to catch my bearings and want to say in a constructive approach- ‘so are you open to any? do you want/need any information from me?’ I had to look in the chart to make sure I had a waiver from the mother that she didn’t want to follow the AAP guidelines just so the mother & I are both covered- because let’s face it. We live in a litigious society.
Another time I cared for a patient who practiced Wicca. Now I know nothing about it, I am not one to judge- but how, where do I start to ask “how can I provide you culturally appropriate care?”
So before you get defensive from point A to point B… I might suggest to you kindly. Try to *consider* how a health care provider might start approaching a home birther whom they have NEVER met in a conversation so it is a win-win situation? Perhaps start by being the person who is more “Look, I had a homebirth. I don’t want to be lectured about this choice” [which you already said] But follow it up with ‘is it possible we can have a working relationship without you lecturing me on my birth choice? Because I don’t want you to feel that I am not open to working within certain medical models. But you came highly recommended to me and I was hopeful that we can come from a place where we can balance what YOU need to do and what I prefer”…
Often times I find families are SO ready to fight the good fight that I have to break down so many barriers of mistrust when I am open to working with them- that I have to establish “look I haven’t worked with this before so there might be a bit of a learning curve to make sure I am meeting your personal needs”. Some families NEED this warm up period in order to establish trust- while others don’t hear what I am saying as a practitioner and focus on the negative due to their heightened distrust/dis-satisfaction/defensiveness…
I’m sorry he said you can leave whenever you want to. I have not idea where he was going with this. But he probably felt like from the start he wasn’t going to be able to get that far. He is definitely at fault for how the provider-patient interaction went astray. But for a Busy man with a busy practice, this was probably the most courteous he could be to you given what HE gathered from your non-verbal communication.
I’m just saying. I am not defending his actions. I have been in more than a GAZILLION negative interactions between families and doctors and I have had to act as the mediator. I have to weigh both sides of the coin. And honestly, proudly I can say these things work out. How often to we get a bad impression of one person and over time realize it was just a crummy day where people weren’t on the same page what-so-ever? I’ve seen it in the hospital setting countless times.
Gather your thoughts and wits. You did what you felt was best in that moment. And he probably felt the same way to based on what he gauged he could do.
Someone will hang me for my view- I could write endlessly more specific details to further clarify my thoughts… but just take this as just a fraction of what I can contribute without making more of an essay out of this.
Feel better! I am crossing my fingers you have more positive experiences in the future!
Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
I saw a midwife post this once. I thought it began an interesting dialogue on her post about it.
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/homebirth-mothers-being-refused-prescriptions-20100608-xtr7.html
Jenn Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
Reading this reminded me of a friend of mine who had to walk out of a situation with a patient at an OB/GYN’s office while going to school to become a nurse. The patient was young (a teenager) and complaining that she was pregnant with her third child. My friend left the room to avoid saying or doing anything more negative because he and his wife were suffering through the miscarriage of their first (long awaited) child.
It makes me think (though your OB/GYN’s actions were inappropriate) perhaps you might not know the whole story. You are very passionate about your choice to have a home birth and feel that it was best for you, but he has gone to school for years and has been taught things that make him nervous for those who choose to have their babies at home. (Not to say that one way or the other is right. I have very dear friends on both sides of this aisle.) For some that nervousness/concern might be hard to handle at times. For all we know he may know someone who had a bad home birth experience and was projecting that to you.
Also, he may have been able to better speak with your husband for no other reason than that he was able to calm himself down from his experience with you. If he comes so highly recommended, he might even have realized that he did the wrong thing and didn’t want to make things worse by ignoring your husband too.
I hope this does not offend. I really am not trying to side with the doctor…just trying to help you to look at it another way. I’ve been trying very hard to not get upset with people for perceived (or real) slights because (in reality) I don’t know everything they have been through in life. (I’ve been trying even harder lately because of a few situations in my own life where people…not knowing all that I’ve been through…have made very rude comments about me. It hurts on both ends.)
I hope you are able to find a way to get the things that you need without being treating poorly because of differing opinions.
Katie Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
I really like the way you articulated this.
Megan Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:17 am
I agree with Jenn. I can totally see why you were upset but I can see the doctors side as well.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh this is so aweful. seriously. I’ve had far too many bad experiences with obgyn’s to even think of them as educated people let alone call them doctors. This makes me so mad. I can’t believe he walked out of the room. Evil doctors. Sending lots of hugs your way because I know you need them.
Jen Allyson
36I’m so sorry about that crazy jerk, Jenna! Oh, I’d have lost it. But then I would have done the exact same thing- gone home and eaten chocolate and cuddled my baby!
Good luck with your next doctor. Lots of good advice on here.
37How rude! I’m so sorry you had to go through two bad experiences. Ask your CNM if she’s got any suggestions for doctors or maybe a midwife who can prescribe bc and do annual exams.
38I’ve never commented before but being 8 months pregnant made me feel furious on your behalf. I’m sorry you had to go through that. When I lived in Dallas, I saw Jack Johnson (not the singer) for my birth control. He’s a family practitioner and very cool. Good luck!
39I just don’t get it! (The doctors I don’t get…not you) How is you standing up for yourself hindering his asking of required questions? What difference does it make where you had your baby?
I too am really sorry you had such a horrible experience. It’s very discouraging.
40While I do agree that this was ridiculous, I have to agree with Katherine Sparkles… since before this visit you had been treated badly, you had your back up before you even set foot in this doctor’s office. And I bet he felt that. Also, by telling him that you were there basically for BC pills, you were implying that you didn’t really need HIM or his experience. You just wanted/needed something from him. And that angered him. And please don’t take this the wrong way— I do believe he acted wrongly. What I’m trying to say is that sometimes you have to stand up for yourself… but you have to be smooth about it.
Also, I am a little surprised at your mention of using PP’s services. And I’m surprised that your church (the LDS church) have never had anything to say about PP’s practices…
Jenna Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
But what is wrong with just going to the doctor for birth control pills? I just don’t see why we can’t say “This is what I want from you. Use your training and determine if I should have that thing, and then give it to me.” Isn’t that what we are paying for? I don’t think lectures are what my insurance is covering.
If it makes doctors feel used and that we don’t value them for whatever problem then that’s their problem I think.
liv Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
I think the problem with that is that people sue (not saying you, just generally). Doctors (and lawyers and other professionals) are trained (and mandated by insurance and professional ethics) to ask questions. Even PP will ask you questions. If someone is willing to give you BC without asking any questions they are a bad doctor.
I think he was probably a bit of a jerk, but you went in there with your defenses up, saying “I had a home birth, don’t lecture me, give me my pills and I can leave”. No good doctor will see a new patient and give them drugs without getting a patient history, etc. He handled it the wrong way, but if he did exactly what you wanted, he wouldn’t be doing his job.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
I have a lovely relationship with my doctor, and that’s pretty much how every appointment goes- I simply state exactly what I’m there for and what I need, and she goes from there asking questions to see what is appropriate for me. I’ve even specifically said things like “nope, everything else is cool, no problems, just need my prescription for xyz, thanks!”. To me, there is nothing in an explanation of a bad experience with a previous doctor regarding her homebirth that says “I refuse to answer ANY questions buddy, gimme them thar pills, ggggggrrrrrrrrrr!”
Personally, I just don’t understand why the doctor didn’t say “I’m sorry you had a bad experience, I just need to know about the care you received while pregnant so I can get a bead on your health history”. Simple as that. I think it is totally unprofessional that the doctor walked out despite Jenna asking him twice to please come back. Plus, as I said below, it seems like Jenna went in to this appointment the *opposite* of defensive- she had nothing but glowing reviews, and she was expecting a pleasant visit.
Betts Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
I am not a doctor, but I would imagine that if I were one, I would want to know a little bit more about my patient before writing out a prescription. I tend to believe that most of us here in America have a very, very friendly relationship with prescription medicine: it’s very available and we often forget that medication has to be monitored, doses have to be adjusted, etc. Basically, I am agreeing with Liv… However, he acted like a jerk, and he shouldn’t have- he should have explained himself after you explained yourself.
Also, he may have had his own welfare in mind: just think of the lawsuits doctors have to deal with.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I agree about the lawsuits on the brain- I’m sure it’s a treacherous path for doctors to walk!
Jenna, do you live near a teaching hospital (basically, any hospital affiliated with a medical school)? I know a lot of times people avoid them because you might have a resident or medical student watching the exam to learn, but I think in your situation, you may discover that they will look at your experience as a great teaching tool for medical students/residents. Rather than berate you for your choices, teaching hospitals often tend to be a bit more “open” and like the diversity in patients. Plus, perhaps discussing your wonderful homebirth experience will help shape the opinions of new OB-GYNs in training and help them take a more favorable stance on it!
I cannot speak for every teaching hospital, but every OB/GYN I have seen is in a university hospital and I have had nothing but wonderful experiences, so I absolutely do not believe there is any lower standard of care in a hospital facility as opposed to private practice.
Jenna Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
Great suggestion Julie! I really like this.
kates Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
By the way, you do live near two teaching hospitals, UT - Southwestern and Baylor Medical Center. Both are fantastic medical schools with strong OBGYN programs.
What about the on cal OB who works with your midwife nurse? The doctor you would have seen had you required a hospital transfer? I’m just thinking they might be accustomed to women with your birthing history, and at the very least be open to your preferences.
Perhaps the doctor left because he was offended by the way you treated him. Doctors are not pill dispensers. I agree that the first doctor who lectured you was over the line, but I feel that you were in the wrong to completely close off the conversation with the second doctor. The doctor’s job is to practice medicine, which involves understanding a patient’s medical history. If I were a doctor and a patient declared that she didn’t want to discuss her pregnancy or L&D because all she wanted from me was a pill script, I would be pretty upset as well.
Jenna Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
I said this above but why AREN’T they pill dispensers? Why isn’t part of their description to determine if someone needs the medication they are asking for? Isn’t that partly what we are paying them for?
And I never said I wouldn’t discuss it, I said I didn’t want a lecture. Big difference. If he was interested in a discussion he would have done the rational and mature thing and said “I’m not here to lecture you, I just want to learn more about your past so I can help determine your future.” That is what doctors should be doing.
liv Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
I’m sorry, I’m trying to understand. You think a doctor should give a patient a drug that can have serious side effects, just because the patient wants it?
Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Between what you wrote in response to Disgruntled Julie and Sherry’s replies I have to politely disagree with you.
Health care providers are NOT pill dispensers- nor do they feel used if someone comes in to say “just give me my meds”. It’s a red flag to them. It’s like saying to a teacher “just give me the grade but let’s skip the work part”. (I dunno it’s a weak analogy bear with me.) And personally- if I went to a provider who I said ‘look I’m just here for this, I need this and this…’ and they just said SURE! Here is a script! I would be alarmed.
You’re right. The doc should have said ***“I’m not here to lecture you, I just want to learn more about your past so I can help determine your future.” **** But he didn’t.
But he has to draw the line somewhere when someone says just give me meds. He is there to understand what is going on in your medical history. He needs to reframe his approach to your care.
It’s a moot point now that it isn’t going to work out. Other people have made wonderful recommendations as to where to go from here. I would also agree with the person who said when you make your future appointments, ask if the provider is familiar with caring for women who have had home birth’s prior to making an appointment. Teaching hospitals, planned parenthood, Nurse Practitioners, heck even a FEMALE provider might be more the best bet.
But I would strongly sway away from saying “Providers shouldn’t /aren’t paid to lecture… providers should dispense meds….” it diminishes the anticipatory guidance conversations/ motivational interviewing/ provider-client therapeutic relationship that providers TRY (and sometimes fail), but ATTEMPT to establish with first time NEW patients. Sometimes first impressions are irreparably damaging. But providers will always be turned off if they don’t have a working relationship/ are told just give me the meds. Because it sets them up with FUTURE potential interactions that are negative for both parties involved.
Stephanie S. Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
I totally agree with your “red flag” point. Although you (and we!) know you didn’t have any “ulterior motives”, doctors have to be suspicious of patients like that.
Also, could you have turned it in to a bit of a teaching moment? Like it or not, home births are not the norm. And, in any field, taking the path less traveled can be a challege. When he said “you didn’t see an ob at all during your pregnancy?” you could have said, “nope, I had a home birth, brought my beautiful child into the world, and now I’m here for birth control”… and transitioned just like that.
Going beyond that question/comment, this doc probably wasn’t the right fit for you. But, taking an extra moment or two to explain your experience/stance could go a long way to making your life easier. And, you may even find that more medical professionals (and others) are more supportive than you think.
Best of luck to you in your search.
Jenna Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
This is most definitely how I wish I had responded. If only I had that time traveling machine!
Heather Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Jenna, i love you. and your reply to this. I love that you are a strong, brilliant woman who is willing to look at things from all angles, even after you have been mistreated. I love how you are HUMAN and don’t hide from your readers. I love that you are willing to say, “maybe i could have done things differently” and dont just put up a wall and think you are the best of the best. I love that you are constantly striving towards becoming the best you can be.
This is why i keep coming back and reading your posts. YEAR AFTER YEAR.
thank you for being who you are.
and from meeting you “in real life” and working with you through Jenna Cole I can’t help point out that you are who you are in person just as much as you are through your writing on the blog. And that desires much kudos.
and gratitude.
THANK YOU, SWEET GIRL.
Katie Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
I am incredibly impressed with your response here, Jenna. I think it’s really easy to get (justifiably) upset with other people when we feel wronged, but it’s not always easy to hear advice on how we might have altered our own behavior to achieve a different outcome. The fact that you can say that while you are glad you expressed your opinion, you can see how articulating it in a different manner might have been a positive thing shows that a level of maturity that not a lot of people possess. That is awesome.
Katherine (a.k.a. Sparkles) Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Yeah come to think of it- some other commenter said it too. Perhaps the physician just thought she didn’t have any provider follow up at all versus TW actually had an experienced person follow her during her pregnancy. Maybe he mis-interepreted not having an OB as not having a provider at all? And that TW just had a baby at home unassisted??? (Playing devils advocate here… just pondering)
Barb Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Jenna I really feel horrible that you felt badly about this dr’s visit, and you have the right to an undertanding dr, but I have to feel that there are two sides to every story, and I agree completely with Katherine, Stephanie, etc. As much as you believed you stated your case fairly, I am guessing you probably walked in there with your guard up and the doctor inpterpretted it as so based on your body language and words. Doctors most definitely are NOT pill dispensers, as that would have most of them out of business from the amount of lawsuits filed in regards to any side effects, no warnings, etc. They have spent 12 years of their life studying about how various symptoms, conditions, etc, interact with one another and their ethical duty is to give you the best care and medicine based on your personal history of health and genetics.
I agree that both of you could have turned things around to form a more positive experience, but I politely disagree with your opinion that doctors want only a doormat who giggles as a patient. There are very polite ways to state your opinion, and while you were very passionate (which is fantastic!) & defensive about your choice to home birth, it may have come across as such to someone on the outside, as sometimes it has to your readers. I remember in one post you said something about (LOOSELY paraphrased!!) “why would anyone want to be in an evironment so cold and unwelcoming as a hospital?” and my immediate thought was that I would not feel comfortable in ANY other place but a hospital when I give birth. Of course I didn’t comment b/c having been a reader for a while I was sure you didn’t mean any offense by it, it was just your way of stating how UNcomfortable YOU felt in that very setting. Point is, and I am just reiterating what many have politely stated, that if you run into any dr who will give you meds and not ask questions or get a detailed history of your health and L&D (which in any setting includes many risks), then I would RUN out of that office. The dr’s responsibility is to develop a relationship with you, and I am sure you can possibly find a dr out there willing to maintain this relationship with you (since you should be getting a Pap every year for your health!!)that will respect your choice to birth at home. Just b/c you birth at home doesn’t mean you should disregard seeing a physician on a regular basis for your personal health (Gyn, cholesterol, etc), and you should establish trusting relationships with those. Just remember that to them your choice was very risky and against what their own medical advice would be to themselves, and they want what is best for their patients (if they are good doctors anyway lol) so that generates a reaction, but try letting them know that while you are aware it was a risky choice, you felt it was the best choice for you personally and you are open to developing a medical relationship with a practicioner outside of your choice to birth at home. (if you are of course
)
I hope this comment didn’t sound offensive to you at all, I have been a reader for a long time and although I disagree with many choices I respect that they are YOUR choices and very much enjoy your blog.
Cristina Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
There’s a reason why a doctor can prescribe medicine when other’s can’t. You are going to them not just as a pill dispenser but someone with special training who is looking at your situation through another, different set of eyes. You know what you want but that doesn’t mean you always know what’s right for you. That sounds strange because I believe the patient should be an active participant in their care, perhaps even the driver, but it’s a team effort and even the driver needs help sometimes. I may have an ear infection and go to the doctor demanding antibiotics. Most of the time, antibiotics would be appropriate in this situation but not always (and even if antibiotics are indicated, I probably don’t know better than the doctor which one is right for this situation, even if I read up about it on the internet). The doctor could give me what I ask, or he could ask me questions, discuss his opinion, and propose a solution. As a free-thinking individual, it’s up to me whether or not I follow his advice but it’s up to him, as the legally responsible prescriber, to use his knowledge and experience to render his professional opinion.
Birth control is not and should not be something that is just dispensed willy-nilly. While bc is generally safe, there are also risks (namely blood clots). A good doctor should make sure it’s safe for you to receive this medication. They may also know which methods are the most reasonable. You may agree that oral contraceptive pills are the right way to go, but you may disagree about which one. Lots of girls go into doctors’ offices demanding yaz because they want a pill that is less likely to cause weight gain. However, yaz can cause dangerously low levels of potassium in some patients, so the doctor’s determination of whether or not a specific patient is a good candidate to receive yaz could mean the difference between life or death. Do I think it’s likely birth control will put you at high risk for hypokalemia or blood clots? Certainly not and I don’t think women should be scared of taking control of their sexual health. BUT, we do need to acknowledge the risks and respect the value of medical advice in determining the risk-benefit ratio for a particular patient. I disagree with the poster who said you are the customer. Doctor-patient relationships shouldn’t be seen as employee-customer, they should be seen as a partnership based on different views and common goals…in other words, your health.
That being said, I’m sorry you’re having such problems establishing an effective relationship with a medical professional. You know what you want and that’s an admirable trait. Keep the health of you and your son as your priority and good luck in achieving that!
Laura Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:15 am
Jenna,
I was just wondering because maybe I missed it but I don’t think you told us what you said. I am reading through and putting it together for what you say in the comments.
But I just wanted to be the devil’s advocate for a second: Is it possible that you really went off on him and that is why he please?
Please don’t assume that is what I think happened. it is just SUCH a crazy think that happened and I know you were made and maybe already defensive. You didn’t, like go in there with flames shooting out your eyeballs, did you? lol?
Also….suggestion:
Sounds silly but I work at a front desk (not medical) and staff really know the people they work with and what the beliefs and additudes are. May seem weird but I bet calling and asking before you see the next person may be helpful. Us receptionists really know all the dirt 
Is it not possible to call places and talk to the front desk people? Can you just call please you have recommended and talk to the person who awnsers “hi…I know this is weird but I have a question. I did XYZ and I went to 2 docs and they were nasty. I need this and that but I need someone who will not be like the others. What is your person like?”
Maybe you can try to call and pre-screen
Laura Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 1:16 am
“why he please”???? I think I meant left or walked out
Ew. Doesn’t he realize he works for you? You are the patient!
I’m going to vote for Planned Parenthood too. If you are comfortable of course. They take appointments, are on a sliding scale, and yes, they offer abortions at some of their sites (in San Diego there is one clinic that does abortions for 3 million people) but they also support women in their choices of adoption, birth choices, etc.
Sophia Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I second the support they give women! I was in the room with my very single, unemployed cousin when they gave her the positive pregnancy test, and in response to her terrified “how can I do this??” the nurse immediately began telling her of all the services she could apply for to get help raising her baby. It is a common misconception that they say “Welp, you’re pregnant, when do you wanna schedule your abortion?”
ugh. I am slowly but surely thinking about trying to conceive, and after reading your accounts of pregnany and T1′s birth, I’ve really been thinking about the midwife/homebirth/birthing center route, and I’ve already started thinking about all of the things you bring up.
45I can’t believe you were treated this way, he should have had the professional muster to tell you that he needed ot ask those quesitons by law.
I just want to quickly chime in that I had a fantastic experience with the Planned Parenthood in Denton. Granted, this was two years ago, but I was stressed out (needed birth control without insurance). It was a wonderful experience and I highly recommend it if you don’t mind the drive up 35.
46Hi Jenna - everyone said it already but I must chime in and say that I’m so proud of you for sticking up for yourself and for naming the doc here! That takes a lot of courage. I hope you can find a much better doc soon!!
47I wouldn’t bother trying to get a doctor to prescribe birth control without a pap. It’s pretty rare. Planned Parenthood is the only place I’ve heard of where paps are considered optional by default.
Why don’t you want a pap, btw?
JessicaMayLords Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
The doctor’s office I worked at often wanted women to get a pap once a year as well. I have gotten two in the three years I’ve been married, just to make sure things are okay, but I don’t plan on getting another one until I’m ready to get pregnant. Since it appears that Jenna and TH were virgins before they were married (like my husband and I were) paps aren’t super necessary; they’re mostly looking for cervical cancer caused by HPV. If you were both virgins, then you won’t have HPV. There ARE other things that can cause abnormalities and cervical cancer, but they’re very very rare in young women. I can understand her not wanting a pap if she doesn’t think she needs one; I certainly don’t feel the need (or want!) to get one anytime soon!
R Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
It’s not the doctor’s office - it used to be the standard of care to do a pap smear every year. Recently, though, they changed the standard of care and after a certain period of normal paps, you can get one every few years. Still, doctors are concerned because they think patients won’t show up for their well-woman exams. It’s not just for the pap smear that you’re supposed to go once a year but also for the breast exam and the internal exam.
Sandra Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 4:26 am
Yes, I’d understand any reason, even that one. I only ask her reasons because I was curious - if it was an issue or privacy, or something like that. Some people just do not like to do them (and who could blame them? They’re not exactly fun!).
R Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
@Sandra, I was applying to @JessicaMayLords with that comment
The Doc Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
The current for recommendations for paps are every 3 years if you’ve had 3 normal annual paps… and only if you **and your partner** are monogamous.
With a minimum 10% mistaken paternity in this country, are you ever really sure? You enter a marriage or relationship with a foundation of trust, but some element of reality must suggest that you never REALLY know what your partner is up to. I trust my partner 110% and would never let suspicion come between us, but we both look out for ourselves when it comes to being behind the doctor’s door. Infertility, HIV, hepatitis… There is little harm in screening, and if it comes up negative every time, it’s just confirmation of what I already know to be true - I’m low risk. My partner advocates that I advocate for myself when it comes to things related to my body and I return the favor.
And, I wish I had a nickel for every “virgin” Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, etc… who confides in me that they are actually not. There’s a reason the holy books go so far as to outline teachings about this kind of thing - As Jenna has said herself, sex is a “biological need” and therefore hard to resist. We are human and imperfect in so many ways.
I’ve taken to asking elders (like 80 year olds) if they use recreational drugs… because some of them do and admit it freely. I had an 85 year old who was using cocaine to treat the pain from bone cancer. I’m happy to increase your pain regimen or get you conscious sedation for your procedure if you admit you’re a heroin user, because you’ve developed a tolerance to our narcotics and they aren’t going to provide you with relief! Just because you wear a cross or a garment or a hijab doesn’t mean you don’t struggle with addictions/habits of all sorts… I ask, you answer, we move on.
And… for what it’s worth, just because you get out of the pap doesn’t mean you get out of the bimanual examination. In the words of one of my favorite OB/GYN colleagues - every woman deserves a finger in her vagina every year. It sounds crass, but that’s not the intent: I would hate to miss a cancer or a growth, wouldn’t you? Ovarian cancer is one of the most obscure and hard-to-diagnose cancers out there with a horrific prognosis if you don’t catch it early.
I’ll second the teaching hospital suggestion & seeing a family doctor. I have been in one for almost 10 years and I love the residents. They tend to be more open and responsive, as well as more up to date on medical stuff. We just switched out of a teaching family practice to follow a resident we loved. She is a family doc so I only saw an OB for my pregnancy and even then I started late on the OB stuff.
I am already planning to change my OB for my next pregnancy as I want VBAC and my current OB isn’t as open as I’d like. Don’t get frustrated - maybe it is a case of asking more questions first - like what are your practices feelings about home births? I have to do the same to find the right VBAC OB.
49I’m still reeling from hearing about this. I’ve never heard of a doctor doing this before and it’s so frustrating to hear about it happening to a good person. I mean really, what was he thinking?! Maybe you’ve already asked her, but maybe your midwife could refer you to an OBGYN who they might work with. Then you would KNOW that they would be understanding and cooperative. I hope you have better luck and find someone who will act simply professional and not antagonize.
50